Suggestion The "Sneak" Skill

[Delfofthebla]

It takes a very large amount of stamina to toggle sneak. This makes it unreliable for mid-fight usage. Additionally, it does not last forever. It lasts 8 minutes, and you have no indication to when it will expire, and it is actually impossible to tell whether or not you are currently sneaking unless you ask someone nearby.

If that wasn't bad enough, it actually takes stamina to toggle sneak off. I think that is stupid.

Honestly I don't know Kainzo's thoughts on this skill balance wise, and I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to buff it--though I would love to see it for the sake of Ninja.

The one thing that I do believe needs to change however, is that it costs stamina to remove the effect. It should not do this. Thoughts?

 

[awsumguy75321]

It takes a very large amount of stamina to toggle sneak. This makes it unreliable for mid-fight usage. Additionally, it does not last forever. It lasts 8 minutes, and you have no indication to when it will expire, and it is actually impossible to tell whether or not you are currently sneaking unless you ask someone nearby.

If that wasn't bad enough, it actually takes stamina to toggle sneak off. I think that is stupid.

Honestly I don't know Kainzo's thoughts on this skill balance wise, and I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to buff it--though I would love to see it for the sake of Ninja.

The one thing that I do believe needs to change however, is that it costs stamina to remove the effect. It should not do this. Thoughts?

It doesn't take stamina to toggle off if you take any damage at all.

 

[Delfofthebla]

It doesn't take stamina to toggle off if you take any damage at all.

I suppose you're right there. This is all the more reason it should not take any stamina to activate the skill when toggling it off.

 

[Kainzo]

You shouldnt be able to reliable 're-sneak' mid fight.
It's a double-edged system, activation and deactivation is the same - but why would you ever want to untoggle it?

 

[Kwong050]

i think that there should be some extra fireworks too!

 

[RaekinTheBored]

It actually does tell you when sneaking expires. It gives the simple message of 'You are no longer sneaking.' I noticed this for the first time while digging the other day.

 

[Ordinary]

You shouldnt be able to reliable 're-sneak' mid fight.
It's a double-edged system, activation and deactivation is the same - but why would you ever want to untoggle it?

I often have to untoggle it when I'm chasing down an enemy or even just running through a jungle. Sneaking causes serious pullback.

 

[Delfofthebla]

You shouldnt be able to reliable 're-sneak' mid fight.
It's a double-edged system, activation and deactivation is the same - but why would you ever want to untoggle it?

Because it has a timer. I don't necessarily do it mid fight--I typically try to refresh it right before a fight so that I get the maximum duration from the ability.

You mention that it's a "double edged system", but that's not true at all--and even if it was, why should it be? As awsumguy75321 stated, it does not consume stamina toggle sneak via taking damage. Honestly it just doesn't make any sense--why in gods name should it take stamina to TURN OFF an ability?

I often have to untoggle it when I'm chasing down an enemy or even just running through a jungle. Sneaking causes serious pullback.

Ordinary is also correct here. Sneak get destroyed by the nocheat plugin. You will rubberband very frequently if traveling with sneak enabled. This makes toggling it off mid fight a very frequent occurrence.

I'm not saying you should remove the stamina cost for activating the skill, I just think it shouldn't take stamina to turn sneak OFF.

 

[RaekinTheBored]

You mention that it's a "double edged system", but that's not true at all--and even if it was, why should it be? As awsumguy75321 stated, it does not consume stamina toggle sneak via taking damage. Honestly it just doesn't make any sense--why in gods name should it take stamina to TURN OFF an ability?

I believe Kainzo was referring to the coding of the skill. Activating the skill makes you sneak if you aren't already doing so, or if you are sneaking, turns it off. Unfortunately, making the distinction between costing stamina if you're sneaking and not costing if you're not might be much harder, or impossible, to code (I don't really know for certain...I don't code). Possibly if their was another skill for 'Unsneak'?

 

[Dsawemd]

You shouldnt be able to reliable 're-sneak' mid fight.
It's a double-edged system, activation and deactivation is the same - but why would you ever want to untoggle it?

Another implementation that would fix this would be an addition for Sneak Status, which would tell the Rogue if they were sneaked. I think the easiest way to do this would be to incorporate either

A HeroesMod patch that allowed for 3rd person self-view of sneak animation (I sneak and I can see myself crouch)
OR
Some kind of 8 minute cooldown, into the cooldown timer mechanic on HeroesMod (?) that resets upon taking damage of any kind, called "Sneaking".

This would allow Rogues to finally have a reliable way to see if they were sneaking without potentially wasting resources.

If not possible, please consider removing the stamina cost for un-sneaking. It does not affect Rogue's ability to sneak mid-fight, beyond making Sneak a bit less optimal during the rare times when Rogues are unsure if they took damage or not. Skills implemented that can take resources for doing nothing beneficial is a clunkier way to balance those skills than increasing costs or cooldowns, in my opinion.

 

[Kainzo]

Another implementation that would fix this would be an addition for Sneak Status, which would tell the Rogue if they were sneaked. I think the easiest way to do this would be to incorporate either

A HeroesMod patch that allowed for 3rd person self-view of sneak animation (I sneak and I can see myself crouch)
OR
Some kind of 8 minute cooldown, into the cooldown timer mechanic on HeroesMod (?) that resets upon taking damage of any kind, called "Sneaking".

This would allow Rogues to finally have a reliable way to see if they were sneaking without potentially wasting resources.

If not possible, please consider removing the stamina cost for un-sneaking. It does not affect Rogue's ability to sneak mid-fight, beyond making Sneak a bit less optimal during the rare times when Rogues are unsure if they took damage or not. Skills implemented that can take resources for doing nothing beneficial is a clunkier way to balance those skills than increasing costs or cooldowns, in my opinion.

oh, we can heromod it with "buffs"
I want buff icons for effects - so it says "SOULFIRE" or has a fiery sword... "SNEAK" or has a crouching ninja .... MIGHT (Fist or something)

unknownloner ^

 

[Delfofthebla]

Another implementation that would fix this would be an addition for Sneak Status, which would tell the Rogue if they were sneaked. I think the easiest way to do this would be to incorporate either

A HeroesMod patch that allowed for 3rd person self-view of sneak animation (I sneak and I can see myself crouch)
OR
Some kind of 8 minute cooldown, into the cooldown timer mechanic on HeroesMod (?) that resets upon taking damage of any kind, called "Sneaking".

This would allow Rogues to finally have a reliable way to see if they were sneaking without potentially wasting resources.

If not possible, please consider removing the stamina cost for un-sneaking. It does not affect Rogue's ability to sneak mid-fight, beyond making Sneak a bit less optimal during the rare times when Rogues are unsure if they took damage or not. Skills implemented that can take resources for doing nothing beneficial is a clunkier way to balance those skills than increasing costs or cooldowns, in my opinion.

While these are interesting ideas, they do not solve the problem--at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to see myself sneaking in third person, or have some sort of heroes "buff timer" implemented, but this will not change the fact that I must re-toggle sneak before a fight, or possibly even mid-fight.

You re-toggle sneak for multiple reasons.
1. You aren't sure how much time is left and want to make sure that you are actually sneaking.
2. You want to ensure that the timer is reset, allowing you to get the maximum benefits from it.
3. Nocheat is riding your ass and you have no choice but to toggle it off for a bit. You may even have to toggle it off mid-fight so that you can actually pursue your target.

All of these situations occur frequently, and as a Ninja, who benefits from sneaking (via backstab) it is crucial for me to not waste time with this ridiculous stamina cost.

oh, we can heromod it with "buffs"
I want buff icons for effects - so it says "SOULFIRE" or has a fiery sword... "SNEAK" or has a crouching ninja .... MIGHT (Fist or something)

unknownloner ^

I would love to see buffs (and debuffs) appear on the inventory menu, just like other Minecraft buffs--if it is possible for you guys to do this, I'm all for it.

However, I still think that there is an issue with sneak. I'm begging you Kainzo, please remove the stamina cost when toggling sneak off. Please.

 

[Kainzo]

Begging does nothing - it's not possible to remove via the current configs - we'd have to recode something in the skill to fix this, I think.

Going to look into "buffs" maybe give a nonamed buff for sneak.

 

[mikehk]

If it auto-toggles off when taking damage, does this cost you 8 stamina? of so I see your dilemma, but if it doesn't, what's the point of re-toggling before combat?

 

[Ordinary]

If it auto-toggles off when taking damage, does this cost you 8 stamina? of so I see your dilemma, but if it doesn't, what's the point of re-toggling before combat?

No it doesn't cost any stamina when it's toggled from damage, but the problem with have it on during combat is the rubberbanding it causes. Imagine you are sprinting downhill towards an enemy, and as you're trying to jump off that last block, you get pulled back to the spot where you jumped, and you lose your sprint. This can make the difference between winning and losing a fight.