Suggestion Strength vs Endurance, and Crit Chance

[Sidgil]

So right now, there is no critical damage factor, this is crucial for any rogue class archetype.

You see, typically it is the strong characters that wear the big heavy armors while the fast characters look for the gaps inte armor. The concept of these gaps is what crit chance is factored in for, it is the rogue's ability to dive in, find that spot and hit it, granting bonus damage to help bypass the heavy armor.

Now since armor is based off endurance, the rogue can get the stamina regen it needs for these feats and extra armor, making it even easier for them to get in. However we have no crit system, so it really like they become warriors with a different skill system. To put if frank: Lame.

My proposal is we make armor wieght Strength base and add in crit chance to agility.

How ti should be handled is on a class by class basis. Rogue classes get a greater beniefit for putting points in agility and thus get greater crit. While Warrior classes don't focus much on agility and thus don't benefit as well from it.

This would help make a variety in the way classes can be built. Imagine the Agile Dragoon, he would be fast, hit hard, but his abilities would be strength based, thus the class as a whole would be weaker, but the Dragoon could still do some damage.

What I am trying to say is it makes for more variety, makes the game more interesting.

Magic doesn't need crit chance, magic goes BOOM.

I would be happy to discuss this further and build on the concept if you guys would like, but I feel this is something you should take into consideration. Little changes like this can have a Dynamic impact on the game and help with balancing.

Speaking of balancing!

By not balancing classes at lower levels, you create a VERY UNBALANCED GAME!

Most players are not going to sit at max level for one, but at lower levels, when classes greatly out play others, it makes for a poor gaming experience, and thus loses you players. Its one thing to be killed by a higher level, its another to be killed becuase your class isn't maxed and there isn't anything you can do.

PVP should be more player skill dependent then level dependent. I'm sorry, but this version of PVP is just stupid. Its only fun for one party, while the other suffers,gets upset and LEAVES THE SERVER. I see it happen a lot. Games are supposed to be challenging, but also fun. We play them to relax, to enjoy ourselves, we should defeat the other players because of our skill, not becuase we are higher level then them.

 

[Delfofthebla]

The "rogue" archtype is gone, and you should build your suggestions on a per-class level. The only true "rogues" are Ranger & Ninja. Bard is not a "rogue", and while Runeblade is "roguelike", it is closer to a caster than anything else. The only two classes that I can really see "seeking" a crit system are Ninja and Ranger. Ninja however, does have a crit like system already, and it's Backstab.

Despite how many people will either disagree or point out the lacking depth to Minecraft combat, Minecraft combat is action oriented, and is not based around auto attacking the same target while spamming skills. Indeed, Herocraft alters it to be more of a skill spammer game, but the basis of vanilla combat is still heavily implanted within Herocraft. You must strafe your target, dodge their attacks, and "out left click" them to properly win a fight. While Minecraft could certainly have handled this better, it is what it is, and we've got what we've got. This is an action based combat game, with an action based combat system.

A non action based game is often plagued with several different aspects. "Missing", "Evasion", and "Critical Strikes". They always carry a plethora of attributes or other statistics that allow you to increase or reduce the chance of these things occurring, altering how you play your character.

This does not work in an action based combat system.

We, the players, control when we hit, when we dodge, and when we miss. Our enemies do the same, and it's a clusterfuck of players jumping around doing different things. But indeed, we are missing that one extra factor, the "critical strike".

Think of it this way--just what is a critical strike? Why is it treated as something that absolutely must exist, and why is it always tied to agility / dexterity? A "Critical Strike" simply implies a blow that was very powerful, rather skillful, or perhaps placed with great precision. But hell, it doesn't even really mean anything. It's just a name tied to something we see in every RPG that involves shitty combat systems. It is just an attack that deals increased damage based on a percentage. That sounds a little familiar..

Backstab. The Ninja has this skill, and it scales very well off of your agility attribute. It allows you to deal very large amounts of increased, percentage based, physical damage with your sword. Just like a critical strike would. The only difference is, rather than it being determined by the "chance calculator" of the system, to you having proper positioning and precise attacks. Do we really need a crit system on top of that? Or are you perhaps suggesting it is removed for an RNG based critical strike system?

I know that Kainzo really likes the idea of bringing crit / evasion / miss chances to Herocraft, but I've fought him on it at every turn. I do not believe this will improve Herocraft combat. Adding randomized stuff to herocraft will dilute the effects of Minecraft's action-based combat, and decrease the value of skill for Herocraft PvP. Players will win fights by simply being lucky, or lose them by being unlucky. I do not wish to see this.


But, all of that aside, do you really want me to add a system that will be as effective as the old blackjack? Or as "random" as the Lottery plugin? Randomization is not an easy thing, and there isn't a single person on the Herocraft dev team that has the power to implement a proper system, and if you keep pushing for this to happen, Kainzo will add it, proper randomization or not.

 

[malikdanab]

I'm not rolling a D20 so I don't expect any RNG

 

[Templar_James]

So right now, there is no critical damage factor, this is crucial for any rogue class archetype.

You see, typically it is the strong characters that wear the big heavy armors while the fast characters look for the gaps inte armor. The concept of these gaps is what crit chance is factored in for, it is the rogue's ability to dive in, find that spot and hit it, granting bonus damage to help bypass the heavy armor.

Now since armor is based off endurance, the rogue can get the stamina regen it needs for these feats and extra armor, making it even easier for them to get in. However we have no crit system, so it really like they become warriors with a different skill system. To put if frank: Lame.

My proposal is we make armor wieght Strength base and add in crit chance to agility.

How ti should be handled is on a class by class basis. Rogue classes get a greater beniefit for putting points in agility and thus get greater crit. While Warrior classes don't focus much on agility and thus don't benefit as well from it.

This would help make a variety in the way classes can be built. Imagine the Agile Dragoon, he would be fast, hit hard, but his abilities would be strength based, thus the class as a whole would be weaker, but the Dragoon could still do some damage.

What I am trying to say is it makes for more variety, makes the game more interesting.

Magic doesn't need crit chance, magic goes BOOM.

I would be happy to discuss this further and build on the concept if you guys would like, but I feel this is something you should take into consideration. Little changes like this can have a Dynamic impact on the game and help with balancing.

Speaking of balancing!

By not balancing classes at lower levels, you create a VERY UNBALANCED GAME!

Most players are not going to sit at max level for one, but at lower levels, when classes greatly out play others, it makes for a poor gaming experience, and thus loses you players. Its one thing to be killed by a higher level, its another to be killed becuase your class isn't maxed and there isn't anything you can do.

PVP should be more player skill dependent then level dependent. I'm sorry, but this version of PVP is just stupid. Its only fun for one party, while the other suffers,gets upset and LEAVES THE SERVER. I see it happen a lot. Games are supposed to be challenging, but also fun. We play them to relax, to enjoy ourselves, we should defeat the other players because of our skill, not becuase we are higher level then them.

Link to a game that is completely skill dependent and doesn't have ANYTHING to do with levels

 

[Dakinara]

I am pretty happy with the attribute system as is, feels difficult to decide where to put points and they have a strong effect on your abilities and overall stats. There may be minor balancing needed here or there but atm feels good man >>.

 

[Sidgil]

Link to a game that is completely skill dependent and doesn't have ANYTHING to do with levels

guild wars 2 brings all pvpers to the same level. I am not suggesting that be a thing

 

[what777]

Link to a game that is completely skill dependent and doesn't have ANYTHING to do with levels

Call of Duty 2, Call of Duty 4 Promod, Counterstrike, GW2...

 

[Templar_James]

guild wars 2 brings all pvpers to the same level. I am not suggesting that be a thing

Levels still matter in that game because of armor and skills.

Call of Duty 2, Call of Duty 4 Promod, Counterstrike, GW2...

call of duty in multiplayer u need to have a certain level to unlock weapons. Counter strike is actually a good one it doesn't have any levels involved nice job lol

 

[what777]

Levels still matter in that game because of armor and skills.

call of duty in multiplayer u need to have a certain level to unlock weapons. Counter strike is actually a good one it doesn't have any levels involved nice job lol

Call of Duty 2 and Call of Duty 4 promod unlock all weapons at the start, so nope.