Stamina/Mana Rework

[Sleaker]

Just to make sure no one freaks out, these ideas are not set in stone, and may not even happen. These are just some ideas that I've been working on to help differentiate the classes some more.

Okay so lets get into it:

Mana

• Mana is no longer a percentage
• Different classes would have different maximums and per-level increases
• Overall mana-regen is slowed compared to what it currently is
• Instead of balancing based on max mana, skills are balanced based on cooldown/delay
• Mana-using Classes:
  • Dreadknight
  • Paladin
  • Bard
  • Ranger
  • Caster & All Specs
  • Healer & All Specs

Stamina

• Low Stamina no longer damages the player
• High stamina no longer heals the player
• Food no longer regens stamina
  • Instead food applies a short non-combat only health-regen effect
  • The amount and/or percent would be based on the rarity of the food
  • Some food could apply mana regen buffs
• Stamina would passively regen as quick or more quickly than mana currently does
• Stamina would not regen when the player was sprinting (or do so at a reduced rate)
• Skills would be balanced around how much stamina they use similar to current mana, and how long it takes to replace it inherently.
• Stamina-using Classes:
  • Warrior
  • Samurai
  • Dragoon
  • Ninja
  • Thief
  • Ranger
  • Disciple

 

[strongholdx]

I like the changes, not sure if I'd enjoy it or not, but I feel its a step in the right direction.

It has my approval

 

[Cryp71c]

Sounds good, I think! Would sprinting still use stamina, or ?

 

[Dazureus]

So is the theory to remove the vanilla food mechanic and replace it with Mana/Stamina?

It has potential, and I've been griping about the 100% mana scale for a while. I'd like to test something like this, certainly.

 

[Sleaker]

Sounds good, I think! Would sprinting still use stamina, or ?

yah, there's not a way to turn off vanilla stamina usage really, it'd just be supplemented by having pretty high stamina regen when you stop sprinting/

 

[Cryp71c]

yah, there's not a way to turn off vanilla stamina usage really, it'd just be supplemented by having pretty high stamina regen when you stop sprinting/

k, sounds good..would definitely be interested in these changes, then. At present, eating just for stamina purposes can be a real pain (and is a huge disadvantage if you're more than a couple hundred meters from the graveyard - by the time you get back to where you died, you're at 1/2 stamina).

 

[Sleaker]

Yup - I want to find better usage for stamina, I was pretty bummed cause I died from stamina loss 2x when I first joined cause there wasn't anything I could do to get food at the start. Imo hp from low stam is just a really bad mechanic and stamina could be used for much better uses (like what I've suggested)

 

[Digger360]

I like the idea, Provided it could be modded that a users remaining mana pool be reflected as stamina, So Mana users have a mana *Bar*.

 

[gooscar]

"Overall mana-regen is slowed compared to what it currently is"
This idea should work fine, as long as casters aren't pushed even further into the ridiculous fight pattern of 1) Cast a spell or 2 2) Run around like a headless chicken hopefully getting enough mana to use one more spell on the tanky Dreadknight chasing you 3) Die, or spam Consume and attempt to flee while your enemy is frozen.

Also on that note, the 'wait time' casters are forced to take between killing mobs is stupid, it just makes things stop flowing and get very boring very quick. I have to grind by fireball until I'm at 0 mana, then run backwards for 10-15 seconds then keep attacking.

The rest of the changes seem good, as long as it's implemented in such a way that it removes/reduces my fore-mentioned playstyle.

 

[Dazureus]

"Overall mana-regen is slowed compared to what it currently is"
This idea should work fine, as long as casters aren't pushed even further into the ridiculous fight pattern of 1) Cast a spell or 2 2) Run around like a headless chicken hopefully getting enough mana to use one more spell on the tanky Dreadknight chasing you 3) Die, or spam Consume and attempt to flee while your enemy is frozen.

Also on that note, the 'wait time' casters are forced to take between killing mobs is stupid, it just makes things stop flowing and get very boring very quick. I have to grind by fireball until I'm at 0 mana, then run backwards for 10-15 seconds then keep attacking.

The rest of the changes seem good, as long as it's implemented in such a way that it removes/reduces my fore-mentioned playstyle.

Bigger mana reserves should help with that. But on one level it just makes sense that you'd need to stop and recharge after so many spells. So long as you're killing mobs at a decent rate when you are slinging flaming snowballs around, there isn't much wrong with this.
For the record, group hunting really helps to circumvent this stop-and-start stuff. It flows a lot better when you go out and have a Warrior buddy whack on mobs while you cast Fireball.

 

[Sleaker]

I like the idea, Provided it could be modded that a users remaining mana pool be reflected as stamina, So Mana users have a mana *Bar*.

We wont ever be doing this, and suggesting it as a conditional as to why you'd go along with the idea seems a bit silly. We are working on alternative mana displays for spoutcraft, we just wont be using the stamina bar -ever- for mana. (Some classes would use both).

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Before I make any comments, Ranger is in both the mana and stamina section.

Seems fine to me, interesting concept and I think the way you're considering to revamp it is a one worth a try.

 

[Sleaker]

@GreekCrackShot - Disciple & Ranger would be mixed classes I think. Depending on the costs of the skills it could work pretty interestingly for some classes to use both mechanics equally, or have some classes that primarily use mana but have 1-2 skills on stamina or something like this.

Example:
We could make Bloodmage abilities use stamina in addition to mana when they have a toggled Form active. When they hit no stamina left, it could start taking health instead of their stamina. The costs would give the Bloodmage increased damage/healing on skills etc. (This is a previous idea mixed with some stamina usage).

 

[heylookitskyle]

I would LOVE this. I hate "Hunger".
-So basically there is no 'Mana' number, you can always use skills if they are off-cooldown?

 

[Psychokhaos]

I am TheMormon, and I approve this message.

@strongholdx , here's your stamp. Use it!

Spoiler

 

[Sleaker]

I would LOVE this. I hate "Hunger".
-So basically there is no 'Mana' number, you can always use skills if they are off-cooldown?

No, some classes would still use mana, some would only need stamina, some would use both. Stamina would be self-regenerating (like Energy on a WoW Rogue). and the classes that were stamina based would have skills that used stamina..

 

[Jloy1]

I love the idea! You have my approval too.

 

[TheEthanEffect]

I like the thought behind it, but I'm skeptical. So, I'll go with my standard advice when it comes to a large SOE change.

DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS CHANGE IMMEDIATELY

The module in and of itself has caught a really bad case of feature creep, and there's so much stuff still in design that hasn't been looked at. The server has been on this map a grand total of three weeks, and in that three weeks we've seen drastic changes to classes, features of vanilla Minecraft that TOTALLY fuck things up only addressed in a partial manner, implementation of the Nether, elimination of spawners, new town spawners, bed spawning replaced with graveyards (the success of which is highly debatable in either direction), Mob Rider added, removed, added, and removed again, the township system STILL not working, and now we have changes to Herogates and dragon riding coming onto the server. What's being done with Tier 7?

This change will radically alter everything regarding how combat is performed. It may be good. It may be bad. Could go either way. It sounds good, sure, but the specifics of it REALLY need to be tested THOROUGHLY (for more than 24-48 hours) before it is even discussed for implementation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for change, and some of the new stuff is cool. Change and evolution are necessary for advancement. But the only thing more dangerous for the future of a community than stagnation is rampant, unchecked, impulsive change. Lots of things sound cool at first glance. When Lenin read Marx's The Communist Manifesto, it probably sounded pretty cool at first. Some changes over time turned the USSR into the mighty superpower that it was. Then along comes Mikail Gorbachev with Glasnost in an attempt to be like the USA, and just three years later, the whole show's coming down in flames.

Moral of the story? Remember your identity, and what made you strong. Trying to implement too many changes too quickly, regardless of how cool they sound, fractures your foundation and destroys the wonderful thing you had going before.

Herocraft is the best Minecraft server there is, bar none, and that statement was every bit as true back in Zeal before all the changes. That's because the module and community, despite its minor quirks, are/were solid. Don't screw that up.

 

[agentjwall]

Call me crazy but what if the mana using classes used the hunger bar as their mana bar? That way casters, healers, et cetera could have a visual without having to clog up their chat boxes. I know there would be some problems with sprint and what not but maybe sprint could reduce mana regen? The only problem is that this would screw with the stamina/mana hybrid classes :/

Just thinking out loud...

 

[Sleaker]

@agentjwall - we won't be doing this, really ever.