Suggestion [Staff][Whitelist] Please, listen to your Players.

[GodOfGales]

TL;DR: This took me like forever and a half to write so you better just read the whole damn thing fool.

Haha, also, I agree with all that you said,

 

[iAlchemist]

I'm late to this, and I'm unsure whether my idea will go noticed, but I couldn't help but suggest a more immersive experience for starting players: A prison escape dungeon.

When players first log in, they're assigned to one of dozens of cells, with a sign. As players explore their cells looking for gear, they can find some starting tools (as per /kit starter) and can also find a sign telling them how to use skills. Another sign would instruct them to use a skill on the door, "breaking" it open. Once outside the cell, players can interact with other prisoners via global chat of that world alone, and work alone or together to free themselves, while facing mild mobs with slight skills, and then finally facing a sort of mini-boss for the tutorial, that isn't too difficult. Once new players leave the tutorial, they'd be given enough exp to start their first five levels, and then be thrown into the world to explore everything else.

My experience with Elder Scrolls: Arena, and I loved it. Even with the old school 1993 graphics it was an immersive realm of exploration as I tried to escape the dungeon and begin my actual adventure, and it was satisfying when I did.

Forgot to tag: @0whitemage0

 

[TimForReal]

First of all, Welcome to HeroCraft!

There are quite a few discussions and ideas being tossed around, unfortunately I don't have time to comment on everything. Most importantly to me, the staff comments.

"An Admin, whichever one that feels like caring to do it."

Quite a blanket statement from either a disgruntled or misinformed player and really shouldn't be a controlling factor in your thoughts or opinions of this server. If you need assistance from a mod/admin please open a petition in game, read Hc.to/PE.

I'm always around and spend pretty much all of my time dealing with PE's and player behavior.

@0whitemage0

 

[0whitemage0]

First of all, Welcome to HeroCraft!

There are quite a few discussions and ideas being tossed around, unfortunately I don't have time to comment on everything. Most importantly to me, the staff comments.

"An Admin, whichever one that feels like caring to do it."

Quite a blanket statement from either a disgruntled or misinformed player and really shouldn't be a controlling factor in your thoughts or opinions of this server. If you need assistance from a mod/admin please open a petition in game, read Hc.to/PE.

I'm always around and spend pretty much all of my time dealing with PE's and player behavior.

@0whitemage0

To preface all this, I am currently wrapped up in work and haven't had the time to appropriately reply to all the responses on this post over the past two days. However I appreciate everyone pooling their ideas and opinions into this post so that we may find solutions! I have been reading each one and I am proud that a solution for the tutorial issue is coming to the forefront! I believe that could really do the new player base of this server some good, providing them the tools and outlets to experience this servers full potential.

Timforreal, I implore you to go back and read every post I've spent time composing. Given that you pulled one sentence from my three collective posts and have used that as a basis for a response. Which if I may add, feels like a blanket statement in itself. I have never mentioned needing assistance from admins, nor that I have a misunderstanding of how the PE system works. I have instead addressed issues surrounding peoples view of the staff, and the perspective of their performance. While pulling from multiple sources for opinions, not one single "disgruntled or misinformed player".

 

[0whitemage0]

Hi there @0whitemage0,

I'm joshtsai a mod here on this server. Sorry for the late reply but I opened this thread right before I got on my flight home and wasn't able to respond.

It seems that you have joined this server at a time where some of the staff were away for the holidays and spending time with their families. I can see from your forum join date and my unfamiliarity with your name that you most likely joined the server when I myself was out of town.

I am the type of person and mod, that I hope that I was one of the staff that was named by the players when you asked them, if not I might have to visit and few people and break a few kneecaps. /s

Anyways, back to your situation, I'll try to reply to your issues from my point of view along with anything else anyone brought up in this thread.

Joining a new server is hard, at least in my experience most servers have a learning curve that new players will need to overcome in order to begin the path of mastery and really having fun. This goes for any game really, it's a new environment, new community that you need to integrate yourself into. It's very akin to immigrating to a new country, though on a much smaller scale.

It's unfortunate that your first few experiences are what they were. But often times I don't blame the players, or as I like to think of them, bandits, to hunt you down. You already got this response, but the "this server is a hardcore server" really is how the player base thinks. There isn't much babying or handholding on the server. It can be cutthroat and difficult to really get a hang on of the server. In fact in my opinion one doesn't really become a learned member until around a year on the server, once you really start getting the hang on how things are done, etc, etc.

I see from your post that you're already in a town, and that is a good first step. You also said that you saw poor new players in a difficult situation, so you already know how I would reply to people getting mercilessly hunted down by these bandits. Joining a town, and in a turn an established sub-community within this server is the very thing that I have noticed in my time here really helps with player retention.

From what I have seen in your post, and from the information that I have gathered from other players by asking, your situation is not unique. In fact it is the very situation that you witnessed, new players being hunted by higher leveled older players, that is the very thing that creates some of the best players this server has ever seen. In fact those players that are able to survive the initial onslaught, gain levels, and create protections to help themselves become the best players on the server. I truly believe that the negative experiences when joining the server build character and in turn, allow a player retention and creation of real, quality players that help increase the experience on this server. Some might call me out on being crazy, but that's why I think this form of bulling, is very similar to the infamous hazing of American Greek Houses. To build that brother/sisterhood is crucial when forming groups, and those that suffer together really do grow together. (side note just because I support small amounts of hazing/"bullying"(for lack of a better term) does not mean I condone vicious bullying, witch hunts, or another form of excessive actions that may cause grief on other players. Please note that PvP is a feature on this server, and outside of very extreme circumstances, is not bullying.)

So then how do we fix this?
Many players have brought up ideas and I hope to respond to them and you so that you may see and comment on any efforts that we may take in improving the new player experience on this server.




These ideas have always been thrown around. My issue with this particular one is, how do we determine which new player gets this personalized help, from what I would assume is staff/veteran players. Most people come of the server to play a game, and while a few do dedicate some of their time to helping new players, this is on a whole new level and the logistics of a tutorial such as this would be difficult. I could be wrong but something on the scale to support every new player that ever joins the server isn't really possible at this point in time. How unfair would this be for say an Australian new player who just joined and none of the said helpers were online?

I don't have an answer to this, nor do I think that this is a bad idea, in fact I have toyed with the idea myself, but as it currently stands we don't have the infrastructure to support this.



I have also toyed with this idea, even way back in Bastion, where it had been so long from the point that I read the tutorial that I had forgotten everything in it.

I would support this idea, and I did want it back when I was a guide. I would even go so far to install a kind of mini arena, where if guides have the time too, show off how to do skills/how pvp works

Many of the other replies to this thread juggle with the same idea, so again I'll be very honest and frank in the next few paragraphs. Feel free anyone else to call me out on any bullshit that I might say.

I'm a huge proponent of just giving new players just the barebones on information. I can be very frustrating in chat to constantly answer the same questions over and over again, just because someone didn't read enough in the tutorial, or couldn't be bothered to read any of the guides that are numerous about this server. Honestly those types of players, the ones who are too immature to think that reading isn't important, don't bother to use the resources that are provided, or fail to use common sense aren't really the ones that I would like in a community. But hey, this is the internet and open to everyone, and I would block anyone from this server just because I don't agree with them, that's stupid. But as one who spends long hours in chat, and especially in long days, it can suck answering the same exact question over and over again, just because someone didn't bother to do any of the reading at all. Very similar to a college class, where people ask stupid questions right out of the textbook reading. They pay for the education, so they should put in the work too. Same with this server, the great and wonderful experiences aren't just given right when you log in, sometimes you have to delay gratification, and work a little bit to get the satisfaction that you want from something. [END RANT]

So, what should we do? It's harder now to see things from an outsider's view for me. I really don't understand not knowing anything about the server, though I do suck at basic Minecraft things and that can be embarrassing sometimes. The information asymmetry is real on the server, and is both part of the solution and part of the problem.

I again don't have all the answers to my questions and responses but I hope I could have helped a bit with this post.

Feel free to contract me, or any of the staff really in-game, we would like to get to know you and always remember, no matter who it is behind the screen, it's always a person there, and that person is a true living, breathing person, with emotions, and feelings just like you. Always just try to be nice/the better person in any situation, and you should have a positive experience on the server.

Just have fun, and make friends dammit it, it's a game!
Holy 1.6k words, I'll cut if off here and just make other responses to other people in other posts.

TL;DR: This took me like forever and a half to write so you better just read the whole damn thing fool.


EDIT #1: Whitemage's post right above mine was made when I was typing this so I missed it, will respond in a new post as this one is hella long already.

Also, I have ready everything you posted and am in vast admiration of your patience and dedication to writing out such composed thoughts. I agree with much of what you said, and I have many responses to that which I may not quite see eye to eye on. But I promise when my time frees up I will give back a proper response that a post like this deserves!

 

[TimForReal]

Also, I have ready everything you posted and am in vast admiration of your patience and dedication to writing out such composed thoughts. I agree with much of what you said, and I have many responses to that which I may not quite see eye to eye on. But I promise when my time frees up I will give back a proper response that a post like this deserves!

Spoiler

Now the [staff] issues, this is what scares me most. It seems like no one is here to moderate, and when someone does its half assed. For example, I asked a member in my town who could fix our global market chest. They replied and I quote, "An Admin, whichever one that feels like caring to do it." And this is just one occasion where a member expressed little faith in the staff. On top of that, it seems as though players can essentially run around unhindered in this world being rude and inconsiderate of new players or people who are unfamiliar with how things work. Its alarming to see an absence of administration when according to your site you make more than enough money through micro transactions to give you're staff some motivation.

"Your staff does not have a memorable impact on the player base of your server."

Now don't take this as being completely negative! It is by no means a admittance or accusation that your moderators are inactive or not participating in their joint responsibilities. By benefit of the doubt, I completely believe they are trying their best. But if this is so, then the way they're trying is not reaching your community! The moderators should be known, players should be able to easily reference trouble community members to said moderators without having to question whether or not they even exist. As well as having faith in their ability to resolve issues.

Granted I have not read every post in full detail, I have quickly skimmed over and noticed a recurring theme regarding the staff so figured I'd briefly touch on that. See the spoiler as to why I commented about the PE.

@0whitemage0

 

[0whitemage0]

Well I fear your use of skimming has left you completely unaware to the real points I made in my posts. What you just referenced was not a anecdote to my experience or knowledge of the PE system, it was in fact a notation about one the communities members experience with the PE system. So your comment, "shouldn't be a controlling factor in your thoughts or opinions of this server. If you need assistance from a mod/admin please open a petition in game, read Hc.to/PE." which is directed towards me becomes completely irrelevant and almost debased on any real use in reference to the subject and current deviations of the main post in this thread.

Skimming can accurately provide a theme of any article you read. I will concede to that point. However skimming employs the use of determining averages and imposing knowledge of previous scenarios onto the current piece at hand. With this in mind skimming can be the most viable tool for brainstorming quick summations and possible hypothesis, yet it is not a tool to be used for specific digestion of articles as a whole.

Translated, I fear you've missed the point of my posts and have instead attempted to alleviate some misunderstanding that you surmised I have.

I again implore you to go back and read. You're (according to the titles this forums imposes onto your account) an Architect, apart of the Event Team, an Admin, staff member, and among those on the Rules Council. I believe your thoughts could be valuable to this post and worth its weights when provided the full substance of this entire thread. Your abilities, ideas, experience, all of which brought you to your position on this server could be of use to us in brainstorming ideas about the subjects we've discussed.

 

[joshtsai]

Also, I have ready everything you posted and am in vast admiration of your patience and dedication to writing out such composed thoughts. I agree with much of what you said, and I have many responses to that which I may not quite see eye to eye on. But I promise when my time frees up I will give back a proper response that a post like this deserves!

Actually on my thoughts, I'm not to happy on how it came out, I was tried when writing and I don't think I properly explained what I was trying to say, I still think that what I said sounds much to mean on condescending. Perhaps I'll get around to making them better later for future references.

To help better with the conversations, I would encourage you to use the "reply" button more when responding to posts. It helps focus on which parts you are replying too and notifies the player when you respond to them.

Another thing you might notice are the tags that we use, that can be done by putting @ and typing a player's name.