Suggestion Sprinting, 1.7 and a More Interesting Ability Resource System

[Dakinara]

Sooo - with 1.7 everyone will basically have better sprinting mod enabled by default, which is fine by me as I have heard that a lot of people use this mod anyways even though it might be against server rules? Anyways, thats not really the point, the point is everyone will always be sprinting in combat, which is good but also kinda blah because why even have sprint, just make everyone that speed by default and remove the button lol. But wait - classes that use stamina actually cant always sprint - if they spam too many abilities, too fast, and get below 4 hunger bars they cannot sprint until it regens. This is cool and makes resource management more interesting, but casters dont have to care about it at all, which is somewhat unfair i think. Finally, i think running from fights is frequently too easy blah blah made this point 5000 times not gonna rehash.

Sooooo.... I propose mana be removed from the game and all abilities be shifted to the stamina system. I know i know, we cant call it stamina, can call it whatever you want, the point would be all classes would have to closely manage a resource that regens quickly but is tied not just to ability usage but movement as well. Would make leveling mana based classes much more bearable with these 3k hp mobs, and, IMO, make pvp combat much more interesting as well. As a healer, i would have to cautiously apply healing in many cases to avoid losing sprint speed as i would subsequently be murdered rather quickly. A wizy wanting to use blink should make sure he isnt gonna push his stam too low after just unloading that entangle / bolt / fireball combo, or he may find himself a sitting duck 10 blocks away. The possibilities are endless! Would require another balance pass obviously to scale numbers and such, but i think this system would be amazingly fun and really increase the strategy of skill usage in game.

I know this may not fit with some peoples concept of caster resources, but its not unheard of. In Guildwars 1, all classes had very low resource amount that regened quickly (stamina), warhammer online had all classes basically on one resource system, and many games are based on cooldown management more-so than mana these days. There are probably countless examples of games that did not use a WOW / everquest system of huge resource pool, sit around for a minute or more waiting for regen once dry. And minecraft combined with heroes has built in the cool feature that the stamina resource is tied not just to ability use, but movement as well.

 

[Carbash]

I think that a more interesting way to do it is to leave mana as is, so you don't have to go messing up attributes and such. Instead make it a system where when you run out of mana you expend stamina to get off a few more skills at the risk of not being able to sprint.

 

[Dakinara]

I think that a more interesting way to do it is to leave mana as is, so you don't have to go messing up attributes and such. Instead make it a system where when you run out of mana you expend stamina to get off a few more skills at the risk of not being able to sprint.

I dont think you would need to mess with attributes too much, could just make "resource regeneration" across multiple attributes, or make it its own attribute that could potentially replace charisma or something. Or you could just give every class the same resource regeneration and remove the ability to increase regeneration from attriubtes / shrug - that would probably be the easiest to balance honestly.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

I feel like this would hit hybrids a bit too hard unless you lower the costs on skills a lot.

 

[Dakinara]

I feel like this would hit hybrids a bit too hard unless you lower the costs on skills a lot.

Yes all skill costs would have to be altered definitely. This would also make "bursting" a more risky attack method than currently for all classes. You would have the option to burst all your stamina into damage, but would likely only want to do that when you know you can finish someone, as you would be left with reduced movement should you fail. Same for healing, a healer could spam several heals to survive a burst attack, but would be moving slowly for a few seconds afterwards, susceptible to being taken down quickly.

 

[Dakinara]

The idea is it would be easy to run out of stamina quickly if you are just spamming abilities, but stamina also regens quickly, so the major downside to spamming is you have reduced movement while regening to 4 hunger.

 

[Kainzo]

We won't be removing mana from the game/server.

Stamina is already in and regens quickly - they are two polar opposite reserve pools.

 

[Dakinara]

We won't be removing mana from the game/server.

Stamina is already in and regens quickly - they are two polar opposite reserve pools.

Well you are the server owner and obviously have final say in anything that happens. I just think this system would make pvp combat, leveling and resource management much more interesting. With 1.7 sprinting will just be the base movement speed for everyone always, except classes that actually use stamina will have to manage their resource, while us mana users will continue to just basically spam skills on cooldown until out-of-mana because why wouldnt we? Mana is just too straight forward and, dare i say, a "boring" resource system compared to stamina.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

No.

Mana regens slowly, and once you're out of mana (and don't have a replenish skill) you're fucked. Stamina regens quickly. You can piss through your stamina pool and get to full stamina in 10-15 seconds. 10-15 seconds of waiting for mana will allow a caster to use a skill, maybe 2.

 

[malikdanab]

Remove all costs! No resource management! Cooldowns only!

 

[Dakinara]

Lol there is no such thing as "mana resource management". If you are a damage dealing / caster class, you basically use your skills on cooldown until you are out of mana, and then you sit there like a turd. Or if you have replenish (yay druid / wizy OP), you just dont run out of mana really. Obviously your guys gaming history is limited or you just really like this system, but it is not the only one used in rpgs, and is one of the most bland / lame in terms of actual "resource management".

And stamina costs on caster abilities would be scaled to the new system obviously. IRREGARDLESS, this will never happen per kainzo so were stuck with the old school resource system forever i guess.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Lol there is no such thing as "mana resource management". If you are a damage dealing / caster class, you basically use your skills on cooldown until you are out of mana, and then you sit there like a turd. Or if you have replenish (yay druid / wizy OP), you just dont run out of mana really. Obviously your guys gaming history is limited or you just really like this system, but it is not the only one used in rpgs, and is one of the most bland / lame in terms of actual "resource management".

And stamina costs on caster abilities would be scaled to the new system obviously. IRREGARDLESS, this will never happen per kainzo so were stuck with the old school resource system forever i guess.

I agree to an extent. I got really excited when Bloodmage got BloodUnion, and thought that every class was going in a similar direction. It has not, and I am disappointed. Perhaps in the future something will rise above what we're currently doing.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

Remove all costs! No resource management! Cooldowns only!

Every skill on a 1 second cooldown

 

[Dakinara]

I guess the best review i can make of the current state of casters, mana and cooldowns is this:

Say im a wizard in the current game. I have two primary pure single target damage skills - fireball and bolt. Nevermind the fact that mana is dumb so i will also just spam my aoe spells on someone to kill them as fast as possible, not caring about mana because if they die i win and can worry about mana later. Under the current system, i use both of these skills on cooldown wherever possible - they are my best damage abilities so may as well use them as much as can, despite the fact that fireball is better in some circumstances ( longer effective range, no cast time and fire dot / mini snare effect) and bolt better in others (cant miss is basically only advantage, but hey its a big one).

Now lets go to a stamina system. Neither ability needs a cooldown in a stamina system - the damage numbers and costs may need to be rebalanced initially based upon maximum desired burst potential, but you could always choose the right ability for the job at hand. There is an effective practical cooldown (ability cost / stamina regen per second), but there doesnt need to be an actual cooldown on pure damage abilities, so long as they are balanced to be equally effective in appropriate usage. If you are kiting someone or pursuing you would use fireball mostly - if you were involved in a multi person fight and were not currently targeted you would use bolt primarily when focusing a single target. And you would only use Aoe attacks when you expected to actually hit more than one person.

Now say im a cleric in the current game. Forget about fullheal for a second because its still broken in terms of balance IMO, lets focus on sacredtouch and sacredword as my main single target heals. Yet again, the fact that mana is dumb leads to the fact that i will also likely spam my group heals to keep myself / single target ally alive because my single target heals are on huge cooldowns and i have nothing else to cast, but have the mana and spamming situation inappropriate skills to stay alive is better than dying.

Now cleric in a stamina system. Neither sacredtouch, sacredword, or group heals really need a cooldown in a stamina system - you choose the right tool for the job, and rebalance numbers as needed. Sacredword is my fast heal that i am able to use more effectively while kiting, but it is not "resource" efficient, and will drain me quicker. Sacredtouch is my resource efficient heal, but has a huge warm up, slowing me significantly and vulnerable to interrupt. I will never cast group heal to single target heal again.

Crowd control and uber buff type abilities will need cooldowns under either system, but the goal of a resource system should be to encourage intelligent use of abilities. I strongly believe mana as currently exists does not do this. And finally, my other tie in was that minecraft movement is inherently tied to stamina. With 1.7, we will all always be sprinting everywhere, so sprint is essentially just normal runspeed at that point. The goal of this system was to tie in to the 1.7 change and make it so sprinting status could potentially be lost through poor resource management (or intelligently lost in appropriate situations (ie finishing someone off or saving someones ass).

 

[Ultanian]

Why not make sprinting cost stamina? Would make kiting even harder and the endurance attribute worth even more to casters.

 

[Dakinara]

I think sprinting costing stamina, while still making melee skills cost stamina, would be grossly unfair and further break the system. If you wanted to move everyone to mana and have stamina just for sprinting, ok i guess, but it would not be as interesting to manage as the system i have recommended.