So long, and thanks for all the blocks...

[Draskuul]

First off, I would like to say thank you to Kainzo, Apherdite, and the coders and staff that got Herocraft up to this point. Despite the venom and bile over a number of issues, this is not forgotten or unappreciated. I have been staff before in a couple large communities so I know the effort that goes into it.

Likewise, I hope you understand what goes into it from the perspective of your town leaders and players.

Why was I here?

To build. It's why I pitched in the money for Minecraft, after all. I wasn't looking for another MMO to grind out levels on, I wasn't looking to keep doing hardcore PVP in EVE. I was burned out and, frankly, tired of playing games that turned into second or third jobs.

Herocraft had a good, stable community, plenty of plugins to keep the builders happy, and for people who really desperately wanted to PVP in a non-PVP game--opportunities to PVP without ruining the game for everyone else.

Where did it all go wrong?

The wipe. Actually, from the original hint of a possible wipe with the initial release of the Heroes plugin. People stopped building. Speculation began. Kainzo and others trickled out various ideas--township plugins, charging for LWCs, etc. We reacted as I expected. A township plugin to automate towns? Great! Charging for LWCs? Are you out of your damned minds?!?!

What was wrong with the wipe?

Nothing was ready. Here we are, a month into the new map. It feels like three. We still don't have towns, we still don't have regions. LWCs weren't ready from the start, and when they were they were so restricted as to be almost useless. We've been told 'soon' every day for the last month concerning townships and regions. The wipe simply never should have happened until the most basic structure of civilization in Herocraft was ready--towns and regions.

Don't you like being a level 27 Mason?

Sorry, Kainzo, but Heroes just doesn't do it for me, and not for any builders I know. I originally viewed the Heroes plugin as an interesting, but harmless, tinker-toy coming into the server I loved. Yeah, you might gain a few neat things, but it wouldn't really break the game. It's now grown into more of a nuisance.

OMG DIAMOND PICKS!!!

I don't know why Kainzo keeps bringing this up in replies. I think he must have a diamond pick lodged up his nose or something. When I've brought it up it was one minor example among others. Fine, I got my lifts and gates and almost have bridges (or whatever order that was), but I have no desire to bother beyond that. It isn't worth the effort.

B.b.b.but.... You have crafting xp now!

If I burned every resource from 20 people I might gain 5-10 levels off crafting. In the same time it would take me just to craft all that crap I probably would gain more xp strip-mining stone--assuming we still got any xp for it.

C'mon, there are XX level 50 specialization masters already, what's your problem?

Oh, a job, family, a life, the desire not to let my fat ass die from a heart attack because I spend 18 hours a day grinding xp in a game. There's also the bit about me not cheating by re-mining ores and such before the exploits were (partly) patched and XP nerfed into oblivion.

But it's a work in progress!

It should have taken about an hour to see the current numbers don't work, not days. Instead we're called "whiners."

Just shut up and build already.

I'd like to, if it wasn't for being forced to watch my back and PVP, then deal with thieves and griefers because of the utter lack of protection for builders anymore.

What griefers? We ban griefers!

According to the blacklist, only six people have been banned this month for griefing. Given the public outcry over griefing I seriously doubt those six people are mostly to blame.

So what's really being done about griefing?

As a player it feels like absolutely nothing is being done. Instead we're finding out that things are being added to the list as not counting as griefing, and apparently now admins are entertaining the idea of 'small' griefing being permissible. The discussion even came up now about *small* organized man-made farms being destroyed not counting as griefing, only very large ones. For all intents and purposes, griefing seems to have been made acceptable, unless you grief the 'wrong person', of course.

(Channeling Futurama's Morbo) DOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM!

Bullshit. Kainzo, please stop trotting out this stupid line. We aren't discussing some abstract theory, we're talking about reality, the here-and-now. This is in the same boat as simply calling us whiners and--from our perspective--completely ignoring us.

Doom and gloom?

New Hope went from about 50 people to under 20 with maybe 3 people playing regularly now. No rings, no regions, apparently no stopping griefers, a constant barrage of unwanted PVP, xp grinding just to get back abilities we used to have, insane prices and limits on LWC... No, it's just too much. Reality isn't theory.

Kainzo: I will not support any doom and gloom theorist - I will instead, ignore you.

Translation: You, the player, shall be ignored. Have a nice day!

I'm with you! I'm gone too! +1!

Feel free to reply here. A massive number of people I know have already quit, but they left without so much as a whimper. Don't whimper, but don't expect to be heard, either.

tl;dr, please ban for stupid poop

Herocraft is in dire straits. There are no hints of civilization here, only PVPers and griefers. Builders are not welcomed. Being a builder, not a PVPer, I am no longer welcomed, and thus I depart.

Best wishes to New Hope citizens, past and present, and other Hope's End alumni. It's a shame we lost the server we loved.

 

[Aesi]

I have been playing on this server since the beginning of Beta. I have gone through a giant trail of awesome on this server throughout my time on it. I have been ACTIVE since I started playing, never even looking at other servers, just praising the one I played on. I have gone from a simple non donor random builder learning the rules as I went, to a City Council of a once amazing Capital of the old map.

I started out as one of 3 friends building on a server we liked, then we ended starting up a town with little succession, not even the SIC of us three. We had a few members here and there, building the town ourselves and it still compared as nothing to most cities. Eventually I ended up becoming mayor of the town, got a taste of the regions and lwc's, then not too long after willingly gave up the town and my position along with its powers. Obviously I didnt like going from powerful to just another player so I got donor status soon after joining another town called Hope's End. I instantly became social to my new town, offering to help the town organizer(Draskuul), and helping him try to keep order from Blaker280. About a week after joining they said something like, "we have a suprise coming" and I was very curious so I ended up finding out that the entire town was moving!! I was kind of disappointed but felt little loss since all I had was a small home in the town. It was a very messy town to be honest, and I was happy to help with the new town's organization and planning. So I became one of the biggest helpers for the town, we built an entire Capital over an ocean with huge succession, and because of my helping and trustworthiness I was invited into the City Council! It was a nice step up I felt as good as SiC because I was trusted to help lwc and region in new members, while also guiding anyone who needed help. I continued this role for a good few months as the town developed, creating towers, pixel art for the town's symbol and even a tower of obstacles! I kept everyone in the town informed and watched over them, offering services and information to anyone needing it.

Then the news of the wipe! I was against it from the beginning. I did not want to lose all the progress I made and was planning to make further, while the voices of PvP were rooting yay! As expected, when announcing in a meeting that there will be a 50% chance of a map wipe, everyone started to go inactive. Giving Kainzo even more of a reason to wipe, teasing people with heroes to make them want it more too. I was never ever behind the idea of Heroes, to me it was just a way to lose my donor abilities that I got for a reason.

I spoke out against the LWC charges, limited regions and the map wipe, I was not heard, as expected. I have been arguing Kainzo on most of the issues since the map wipe has happened, it hasnt done me any good.

The map wipe was completely unprepared for! We started out with basically only Heroes, because thats what Kainzo wanted. We had no DHX, no LWC's, no regions, no portals, no banks, no way to get townships. Being a donor now only meant you were able to log on over the tons of new players only here for Heroes.

Then there's the stress that no protections has put on us builders. How are we expected to build when we have to watch our backs every waking second, especially if your having a dispute with another town. I mimic what Drask says about griefing rules, they've become so much worse because the admins are tired of dealing with every little /pe because again, regions are not in. I've had so much stress playing since the map wipe, and why should I have to stress while playing a damn game? I do not like the PvP orientation, its not what I came to this server for. Those of us who are able to use diamond tools can only get obby right? Then someone comes along and you stand no chance of winning so of course you lose those materials you spent hours gathering. Anyways, not being able to even hide your items because people can rip thru a building to search for them and the PvP causes me so much stress, this server is not fun anymore.

Anyways, I would like to say thank you Kainzo for running this server pre-wipe, was a fun ride. Its sad that we are so replaceable to you. Good luck to builders who choose to stay. And Thank You for the morale support New Hope council and members.

 

[Doreagarde]

As we move forward, some people are left behind. Nobody has been replacable; many good, memorable players have come and then gone for their own reasons, sometimes with a quiet and thankful 'goodbye', other times flouncing with a loud fanfare. Go if you must, but you can't leave a bitter taste in our mouths. Herocraft gets only sweeter from here.

 

[Rofii]

Why was I here?

To build. It's why I pitched in the money for Minecraft, after all. I wasn't looking for another MMO to grind out levels on, I wasn't looking to keep doing hardcore PVP in EVE. I was burned out and, frankly, tired of playing games that turned into second or third jobs.

Herocraft had a good, stable community, plenty of plugins to keep the builders happy, and for people who really desperately wanted to PVP in a non-PVP game--opportunities to PVP without ruining the game for everyone else.

Quoted the part I agreed with most, and emphasized the really important bit.

IMHO PvP in Minecraft will never be anything more than this:

Actually it's worse than that, because 80% of the time one of the two participants isn't ready to fight, but has his back turned and is mining/building.

Even if heroes DOES manage to turn Minecraft into a somewhat passable PvP-MMO game by introducing new class-based skills, it will likely be years before the classes are actually balanced.

On that note, I'll quote myself from a thread earlier today.

[quote="Rofii]
If you removed PVP from Minecraft and left the mining/building, you'd still have one of the best PC games of the last 10 years. On the other hand if you removed mining/building and left the PVP, you'd have a laughable game
[/quote]

Whether intentional or not, it seems the server is undergoing a major shift from being focused on mining/building to catering to PvP.

 

[strongholdx]

As we move forward, some people are left behind. Nobody has been replacable; many good, memorable players have come and then gone for their own reasons, sometimes with a quiet and thankful 'goodbye', other times flouncing with a loud fanfare. Go if you must, but you can't leave a bitter taste in our mouths. Herocraft gets only sweeter from here.

Not true - Everything Drask said is True however. I've said it a million times, "We were not ready"
And ima say it again - We still aren't and we never were.

See: from Day One of the wipe my faith in Staff has been dropping to where it is now, nihl, zip, zero, none. Once highly upheald rules are being dropped and ignored, we're promised things we never get, its always 'soon' but it never happens. I understand the demand of the staff is more demanding now more than ever, but the fact that that has caused them to just give up on some things and just ignore others disgusts me.

In Seagate a petition for griefing would be handled proptly and effectivly, now I don't even bother because, "If it can be fixed in under 10 minutes, dont /pe it" - *Spits* is that what the staff does when the Going gets tough? I'm litterally at the end of my witts at this point - the only reason I'm still here is the city I have to look after and I'd consider myself a quitter if I left (On a side note, I respect Drask's choice to leave - he's been around a lot longer than me and has every right, my opinion of him has not changed)

Herocraft was the most amasing server I had ever played on - before the wipe. Now its a jumbled mess of confusion, chaos, and lawlessness. Thats not the Server anyone wants, it's not the server we all know. But, I, however reluctantly, am still holding on to something solid and enduring the storm.

- TL;DR -

I agree with every word that Drask said
I have lost all faith in Staff
I'm this close to quitting - Ironpass keeps me here
I respect Drask's descision to leave
The server is nothing like it once was (In a bad way)
Though we never spoke, I'll miss you Drask, you were an important part of the community -
Good luck out there, may wind fill you sails, ale fill your cup, and happiness fill your heart wherever you may go

-Strongholdx-

 

[Panda]

Drask, you were a great mayor, far better than Blaker was back in Hope's End. I agree with a lot about what you said even though I wasn't able to realize it until now. Unfortunately this server has turned into something that a lot of us don't like and that's why I miss the old map where we could all mine and build in peace and not have to worry about being raided / stolen from often.

 

[MD_Bay]

I wish they had the old map up for download, so I could remember all the old, good times...
The server is still awesome though.

 

[Doreagarde]

A game is only a game when you're having fun, Strongholdx. It appears Herocraft has been causing you a lot of stress lately. Have you forgotten that you were playing a game the whole time? Games are meant to relieve stress, not cause it, and if you feel like it's not helping you escape from reality, you should probably stop.

You're right about the last map - it was great fun, fond memories were made there, no one can change that. Some people didn't stay after the New Year's wipe because of all the plugin changes (especially the removal of Runecraft and the addition of the Township system as we know it today), and they missed something great that you and I chose to be a part of. The same thing happened at the Halloween update wipe, around the time that damage came online and the Nether was promised but not released until the next year, and again before that when the server was wiped and made public (when was the last time you saw Seratt online? ). It will happen again, and we'll see more people come and go.

Kainzo occasionally sarcastically remarks "Doom and Gloom!" as you said, Draskuul, in threads about how people are upset about the current state of Herocraft in contrast to the "good old days". I think he's saying that the easy times are over for Herocraft. From now on, it's high adventure!

 

[Dielan9999]

In defense of heroes, I believe it's breathing new life into the server. The old system was crumbling. It was teetering closer and closer to a freebuild server, not hardcore. The only hardcore thing about it was not spawning things just before the rumors of map wipe. It only took 10 people to make a township where they could spend the rest of their herocraft time just building in complete security, like they and 9 friends were on a private server that had very, very little land.

If we kept on like we were, the server would have slowly crawled from hardcore to freebuild. Heroes is the answer!

I do agree the server wasn't ready, the plugins weren't ready, alot of things just weren't ready. We have suffered for it. Alot of the things said above are true. I believe in Doreagarde's words, things will get better. Unfortunately this "better" we are expecting, is how we expected the new map to begin. With everything readily available.

In summary, the old system is crumbling; the new will heal it when it's ready, we must bear with it for now.

Tl;Dr

-I agree things were rushed and not ready, we have suffered for it
-I approve of what heroes does to the gameplay on the server
-I approve of not being safe inside your town from PVP, save for the townhall
-I approve of upkeep costs for townships, to keep them active
-Regions will fix all your griefing woes. That's ALL. IT. TAKES.
-PVP and Thievery should remain as they are, this is not a freebuild NOR a PVP server. There must be balance

 

[Doogler]

There must be balance

The balance has been upset

 

[RumpTroll]

I do agree with nearly everything Draskuul said. I am not a PVP fan and i will never be. This map is way more PVP friendly that the old map, and i don't like that. I have not been on this server for so long but i just want to thank Draskuul for being an awsome mayor and helping me allot.

 

[codec1]

I think your throwing in the towel to early.

*While im not trying to change ur mind i do wanna put down my perspective on this as its been on my mind since heroes began.*

While i do agree that heroes has started out choppy i dont agree that it was the wrong time to put it out there... Sometimes change needs to happen even if things arnt picture perfect else it will never happen at all and this plugin fits that description perfectly to me. Theres no better way to build a RPG plugin than to build it and have the people using it be able to input on its direction by pointing out its strengths, weaknesses, and logical errors. Things are indeed choppy yet at the same time things are also getting better with each and every patch, which are being put out quite rapidly >_> lol. To me things are looking up, in the small vision some things are messed up but when looking at the big picture i see a very diverse and complex game coming into play, still its up to us the players to make it that way.

I'm 100% with you on how irritating it is to try to build something and have some tardfaces either kill me while building for my precious (and few ) resources or greifing the crap outta my building. Its not cool... at all, accessibility aswell as avoidance are really the only way to minimize the chances of it happening. People are building in the old ways which cause them to be under stress. Its very obvious that if you intend to have high accessibility to the starter city you will have high risk of ppl jacking your shiz. Build further out if you want less problems, i have walked out there for hours (cumulative) and havent met a soul out for my blood. To me its not the fact that heroes sucks or Kainzo has abandoned crafters thats stressing people out its that people arnt adapting their strategies/tactics and doing things new ways. If you decide to build in a hotzone with no strategies or tactics besides building expect to die... alot and thats not really because of the plugin its just because when most ppl (here atleast) are given the freedom to do what they want they decide to be D-bags.

The main problem for crafters, more-so than other classes, is that many people are *excuse my french* assholes. I think that as the map matures it will calm down, especially if a city and/or guild is made explicitly to protect builders and hunt builder killers. The pvpers just really have no consequences for their actions as crafters have laughable offense and noone is gonna go spend an hour tracking down some guy that didnt even kill them (the crafters crew). Even if he is killed he looses minimal items just to go somewhere else to do it to someone else. Lack of consequences and human nature are to blame here wayy more than the plugin.

The fact that town space is automated isnt good to me it just takes away from that awesome feel of minecraft. I dunno how it worked before as i wasnt a mayor but if its limiting the choices a town has to be creative with their space i dont like it. Especially with taxes coming out, which i dont like since theres typically only a handful of productive people and it will place an unpleasant burden on them. It would make more sense to make each player be taxed x amount of money if their within a town and if they dont pay the town is forced to cover them within say 2-3 days of the tax period. Taxes would have pros and cons then, Ex a town can cover the taxes of helpful individuals as a reward of service and be "inspired" to remove unannounced in-actives asap. Limiting creativity and placing too much weight on the town leaders is bad imo, they need to be focused on citizens and development not possible budget deficits. Id say its not a big problem yet not an unimportant one.

For the most-part we will have to wait and see what happens when rings come out along with other features. If ur leaving just because rings arnt in and theres more risk/reward then id suggest a break followed by a triumphant return ;D. Personally i just hope that rings dont make towns and crafters invulnerable, thats just stale and boring. I have my own ideas on how to add consequences to pvpers who farm builders for resources but we will have to see how the town rings effect things in the end. Could be interesting or it could be stale. depends.

As for classes, i like um. Im no crafter (im a geo) but id figure that once the map matures specialized crafters will become more important and will have more skills to make them even more unique/desirable.

So yeah, thoughts aside , id suggest waiting to see what happens. The heart of the server is still here its just the D-bags that are clouding it.

 

[Kainzo]

Just as regions came up, heh.

Anyways - I openly invite you to our PVE only server that will be launching in the follow weeks/months. It will be more freebuild than you can sink your teeth into.

Just to reiterate it once more. I still do not support theories about the sky falling, the world ending, or any doom and gloom perspectives.

If I lived and died every single time someone was unhappy on this server, I would have had a heart attack 10 years ago (yes I hosted a CS server long before MC was even a thought)

It's just the way of the world my friend. Time's change, sometimes you can like it, sometimes you can hate it. Do what makes YOU happy.

 

[Draskuul]

Well Kainzo, I give you credit for at least coming back and editing your post so it wasn't just a snide-sounding one-liner.

If I'd waited a few more hours I might have stuck around a little longer, but having regions up is really just one of many issues. It would likely have only delayed the inevitable.

I see a number of other people have actually read the thread in its entirety, at least. Best of luck to those of you who choose to stay behind and try to put up with this.

 

[Apherdite]

It's not a race by the way, just so everyone knows.

 

[lucky644]

Why is it people who leave feel the need to post long winded explanations.

Just leave.

This is not a useful thread, closing it.

 

[Kainzo]

I hope you guys understand the amount of time that all staff members and other contributors put into this server. Do you realize how much of a social life I have? Do you seriously think I am out to "Get you" Draskuul? You take things personally when they are not personal, how many times, LAST MAP did you say "hey kain - thanks, you put forth an amazing amount of effort for little to no return" - it didn't happen often, but that's okay.

I'm not asking for your praise, im not asking for you to love me, im not asking for you to tolerate my ways or who I am as a person, I'm asking that you do NOT belittle our staff, that you are GRATEFUL that we care enough to listen to HUNDREDS of players bitch day in and day out about various meaningless things.

I'm glad you enjoyed the times you did on Herocraft. You will be missed, despite your sore attitude on a hard working, professional team.