Suggestion Skill "bash" change?

[Beau_Nearh]

Right this is basically my opinion on the skill "Bash" . From my view it currently useless as the main upside of it which is stoping someone casting a skill is extremely hard to time. (Whether it being client side lag, server lag or not realising someone is casting a skill with all the chat messages popping up). Fair enough the skill also offers x amount of physical damage but the skill 'strike' outshines it as it deals an increased amount of physical damage as well as applying a bleed affect. Now my suggestion on changing this skill to be useful would be ONE of the following;

+To do physical damage that is scaled against the armor the target is current wearing. If they are wearing more armor, it deals more damage while if they are not wearing a lot of armor, it does a little amount of physical damage. For example the base physical damage of this skill could be 20 (The base damage of this skill should be low). If I attack someone using this skill that is wearing a full suit of armor it deals x amount more damaged per piece of armor. But if they are wearing no armor, I deal only the 20 damage (the base damage).

+Changing this skill to a more of a 'crowd control' type of skill, to achive this I would do the following; Make it so the skill knocks back the target x amount of blocks (would be variable on the amount of strength attributes the player has or something like that but I would expect it to be a decent knock back) and ethier slowing them OR applying a nausea affect for x amount of time (dependant on another attribute).

now the 3rd option I would like to change it too would be;

+I would stay true to the main use of this skill which is to apply a bit of physical as well as stopping someone from casting a skill. To do this I would keep the physical damage that it currently has but changing out the bit where you can stop someone from casting to a 'silence' affect that will stop the target from casting for x amount of time. Depending on balancing issues will affect the physical damage as well as silience duration.

Now before you down vote this suggestion please take a thought and think 'yeah the skill bash is useful' or 'it's a decent skill to use' . I've only decided to make this suggestion as this is one of the skills that I have access to yet use the least due to other skills out shining it easily. Making a change to bash like any of the above will actually make me think of what skill should I swap out for bash and making it a more viable skill rather than situational.Thanks for reading this suggestion and I'll happily answer any questions regarding this, regards. Beau.

Note; Please keep in mind this is a change to the specific skill 'bash' and try not to relate any feedback relating these changes to classes that have access to this skill.

 

[jasonc1111]

Yeah lets make dragoon even better! Woooooo

 

[Beau_Nearh]

We're talking about the specific skill here, not the classes that have access to it.

 

[RShooter2000]

I quite like bash how it is at the moment, the only thing I think it needs is a better range. At the moment you have to be right on top of the person to use it, but I guess that kind of makes sense. Where you said adding a silence affect instead of an interrupt, I don't agree with that, cause then you essentially have rogue tanks, casters won't be able to counter the classes they are supposed to counter thus making warriors the most op classes in the game. To be honest bash to me is a situational skill not a skill you spam. It's great when fighting wizards or other classes that have a lot of warm ups on their skills. It would be cool to see bash do knock back like you said but instead of nausea, it would still interrupt their casting. Just some thoughts on the topic.

 

[Beau_Nearh]

I quite like bash how it is at the moment, the only thing I think it needs is a better range. At the moment you have to be right on top of the person to use it, but I guess that kind of makes sense. Where you said adding a silence affect instead of an interrupt, I don't agree with that, cause then you essentially have rogue tanks, casters won't be able to counter the classes they are supposed to counter thus making warriors the most op classes in the game. To be honest bash to me is a situational skill not a skill you spam. It's great when fighting wizards or other classes that have a lot of warm ups on their skills. It would be cool to see bash do knock back like you said but instead of nausea, it would still interrupt their casting. Just some thoughts on the topic.

I agree with some points such as it being a situational skill but I'm not having any range issues with this skill myself. I feel as it has the same range as strike currently. Like the idea behind the skill is interesting and quite well thought out but when it comes to practice, I feel as it doesn't come out as intended (this may be because of some variables like client side lag, server lag ect). Regarding the silence bit I thought about that and was just trying to relate it to a current know affect/ skill. Maybe instead of the silence, it could increase the warm up time on certain skills? An example would be a skill that normally has a 2 second warmup now has a 3.5 second warmup after being hit with a bash? Just food for thought

 

[mikehk]

I find it rather useful. it's not a skill that you can simply bind to your main weapon, hold right click and spam left click to deal damage. it's a skill that takes timing. You mention that server lag makes it useless sometimes. I ask if you're refering to skills that have a .5 second warmup such as spear, because I personally have had no problems interrupting warmups on skills that I wanted interrupted beyond 1.5 seconds. it's incredibly useful against wizards, who have warmups on their high damage skills, such as bolt, megabolt, arcaneblast, etc. just by bashing arcaneblast, you stop about 250+ damage. as I said previously, its not a DPS skill, its a timing skill.

 

[zecaseo]

Bash is amazing for anti-casters. you can even wreck paladins by interrupting their absolutions. My only advice... Learn to play

 

[Beau_Nearh]

Everyone had an opinion and I'll respect that but I am aware that bash isn't a skill you spasm with. None of the skills are made to be spammed, they are made to be used in certain combinations depending on who you're fighting. Fair enough you're saying that you can stop the wizard at the moment from using the skill but currently the range on this skill isn't that great (Still have to be within melee range to use it) and it only stops them from casting it that moment. As I'm playing paladin currently, I feel that divine stun is a straight upgrade from this skill. But as you said its a skill that requires timing.

In a perfect environment there won't be;

1.) client side lag
2.) server lag
3.) other variables that will affect your reaction time from knowing they are warming up a skill

However, these variables are here making it a lot harder than I think it was originally intended to utilise correctly. In theory this skill is very good but in practice it just isn't viable. But with your example about the arcane blast, wouldn't it be better for me as a paladin to use my invuln skill avoiding ALL damage while letting my target use their skill, mana and stamina (and even regents in some cases) instead of bashing them, dealing a little bit of physical damage and stopping them for that one cast

 

[Beau_Nearh]

Bash is amazing for anti-casters. you can even wreck paladins by interrupting their absolutions. My only advice... Learn to play

"Wreak paladins by interrupting their absolutions"

Currently any class that has high magic damage with low cool downs destroy paladins sadly. But what do you mean "anti-casters"? It just stops me using a specific skill at one moment. Silence out classes this skill all together IMO.

 

[LightningCape]

We're talking about the specific skill here, not the classes that have access to it.

If you're going to change a skill its going to affect balance so you have to look at all the classes that have it.

interrupts are far from weak they block powerful skills like bolt, arcaneblast, revive..etc and even completely shut out some classes like bloodmage. Lag is lag, doesn't mean a skill is bad.

 

[what777]

Bash is really good already, when I was Goon was one of my favorite skills.

 

[Beau_Nearh]

If you're going to change a skill its going to affect balance so you have to look at all the classes that have it.

interrupts are far from weak they block powerful skills like bolt, arcaneblast, revive..etc and even completely shut out some classes like bloodmage. Lag is lag, doesn't mean a skill is bad.

Balancing a skill's new purpose or ablitity around existing classes would be the wrong way to balance the skill all together. Fair enough balancing is a pain in the arse but there's no need to stop a potential new skill being made due to existi classes. If it is the case where the new changes are introduced and it is a bit unbalanced on some classes, take it out rather than letting other classes that need it suffer due to one class excelling with it.

But okay, the skill does stop the target casting from that specific point and applies a bit of physical damage. It still doesn't stop the target from trying to cast it again. As well as this, this skill is aimed at specific skills (not that many and very situation) that have a warmup of more than 2 maybe 3 seconds as reacting in time due to all the variables in play may be hard. But lag does make a skill bad if the skill requires you to time it's use perfectly.

 

[Danda]

Balancing a skill's new purpose or ablitity around existing classes would be the wrong way to balance the skill all together. Fair enough balancing is a pain in the arse but there's no need to stop a potential new skill being made due to existi classes. If it is the case where the new changes are introduced and it is a bit unbalanced on some classes, take it out rather than letting other classes that need it suffer due to one class excelling with it.

But okay, the skill does stop the target casting from that specific point and applies a bit of physical damage. It still doesn't stop the target from trying to cast it again. As well as this, this skill is aimed at specific skills (not that many and very situation) that have a warmup of more than 2 maybe 3 seconds as reacting in time due to all the variables in play may be hard. But lag does make a skill bad if the skill requires you to time it's use perfectly.

No when re-purposing a skill you need to factor in all classes that would use it. If there is a class that will excel with it then you need to look into creating a new skill not re-purposing the old one.

LightningCape is correct on this.

Besides Bash is considered one of the best skills for warrior classes at present by the majority of the server that PvP on a regular basis. So I would have to go with the opinion of those that have played this server for a long time and know the dynamic of the classes. But Bash is not just an interrupt skill the way it actually works is it applies a short silence to the target which in turn interrupts the current channeled skill and they'll be unable to cast anything for a short period of time.