Suggestion Shaman Mana Costs

[Solidze]

The only thing I currently see dragging down this fun class are the mana costs. It's a 5 strikes you're out type of deal with most of the spells costing 200 mana (assuming you have 1k mana). Can we see a drop in mana costs? Something like this:



ShockingStrike: 120>100

CleanseSpirit: 200>150

FirestrikeTotem 200>140

EarthenFury 100>80

HealingTotem 200>140

EngulfingTotem 200>140

HealingSurge 250>125

PrimalTotem 200>140

ForceTotem 200>140

WindGale 150>120

Either way, mana costs needs to be fixed. Thanks.

Edit: Possibly a increase on supportive totem radius?

Primal Totem and Healing Totem radius from 4.9>7.9 radius.

 

[0xNaomi]

Shaman has two ways to restore mana, it's fine.

The strikes aren't meant to be spammed and if any major changes happen then the will of Kain will dictate they be removed entirely.

 

[Solidze]

Shaman has two ways to restore mana, it's fine.

The strikes aren't meant to be spammed and if any major changes happen then the will of Kain will dictate they be removed entirely.

TotemRecall5 20 sec You call your active totem back, regaining mana proportional to how much of the totem's lifespan was used, minus 10 percent.
and

HealingSurge35250 30 sec You restore (145 + 0.25 per wisdom point) health and (2 + 0.03 per intellect point) percent mana and stamina to the target over 20 seconds. You receive 70 percent of this healing for yourself. Takes 3 seconds to warm up. (Wiki broken, you also gain less mana/stam back when used on yourself).


These are not a justifiable way to regain mana for the amount of the cost. You're looking at gaining back 227.5 mana back over 20 seconds, on a 10 second downtime. TotemRecall is just broken due to the current mana costs of the totems. You're looking at a pure auto attack melee class here.

When it comes to pvp, you don't have 20-30 seconds to sit back like you do in pve to wait on base mana regen to kick in to be effect again, only to spend 20+% mana again for one spell.

 

[JupiterRome]

Don't get it, I played shaman for a few days and never ran out of mana due to healing surge, try not spamming skills and adding more wis

 

[0xNaomi]

TotemRecall5 20 sec You call your active totem back, regaining mana proportional to how much of the totem's lifespan was used, minus 10 percent.
and

HealingSurge35250 30 sec You restore (145 + 0.25 per wisdom point) health and (2 + 0.03 per intellect point) percent mana and stamina to the target over 20 seconds. You receive 70 percent of this healing for yourself. Takes 3 seconds to warm up. (Wiki broken, you also gain less mana/stam back when used on yourself).


These are not a justifiable way to regain mana for the amount of the cost. You're looking at gaining back 227.5 mana back over 20 seconds, on a 10 second downtime. TotemRecall is just broken due to the current mana costs of the totems. You're looking at a pure auto attack melee class here.

When it comes to pvp, you don't have 20-30 seconds to sit back like you do in pve to wait on base mana regen to kick in to be effect again, only to spend 20+% mana again for one spell.

You forget that during the duration of HealingSurge and a Totem, you not only get back mana, but for the duration you have an "empty" mana bar in which natural regeneration occurs as well. Any other mana regen just fills it instantly for free on a CD, but this has you spend some mana to get both regen and the skill's effect on the mana bar over time.

 

[pure_autism]

@Aryios

 

[Solidze]

Don't get it, I played shaman for a few days and never ran out of mana due to healing surge, try not spamming skills and adding more wis

I'm sorry, is this a caster or a left click spamming melee class we are talking about here? It is ridiculous to think a caster can't use more than 4-5 abilities unless they want to run oom. Sounds like an ineffective caster to me and from what it sounds like....it should have remained under the healer tree. But of course, you never justify you're post. You just run around here rampant trolling any sugg without providing construction evidence for you're reasoning.

 

[szatanista]

Geez stop crying that hero you play is not totally OP, every caster class runs OOM if they spam skills.

 

[realmatt10000]

The only thing I currently see dragging down this fun class are the mana costs. It's a 5 strikes you're out type of deal with most of the spells costing 200 mana (assuming you have 1k mana). Can we see a drop in mana costs? Something like this:



ShockingStrike: 120>100

CleanseSpirit: 200>150

FirestrikeTotem 200>140

EarthenFury 100>80

HealingTotem 200>140

EngulfingTotem 200>140

HealingSurge 250>125

PrimalTotem 200>140

ForceTotem 200>140

WindGale 150>120

Either way, mana costs needs to be fixed. Thanks.

I would agree with this post but I can't rate stuff because I don't have a right to an opinion on this server. The root of the Shaman's lack of power is the mana costs in my opinion. I have been playing the class for a day or two and actually PvPd with it in many situations such as team fights, small skirmishes, and 1v1s. My main problem with the class was how much mana they burn through within seconds. In a team fight you go oomed in seconds to the point where it's not even funny, in small skirmishes you still go oomed quite quickly, but in 1v1s the mana situation isn't the worst but it's still pitiful. I can safely say that @0xNaomi @JupiterRome and @szatanista have never PvPd with this class, you guys don't even PvP nearly enough to judge a class.... That is all.

 

[JupiterRome]

I'm sorry, is this a caster or a left click spamming melee class we are talking about here? It is ridiculous to think a caster can't use
more than 4-5 abilities unless they want to run oom. Sounds like an ineffective caster to me and from what it sounds like....it should have remained under the healer tree. But of course, you never justify you're post. You just run around here rampant trolling any sugg

Who the fuck are you even? This is a balance post not a post to make a personal jab at people you disagree with, and of shamans dont melee their stupid, that class has pretty high melee damage giving it a chance to transition melee or caster when they run out of mana. What do you want me to say? Few classes don't run out of mana so don't complain about having to wait 20seconds for more mana, that's how long some of Druids heals take. I honestly don't know what part of that post is troll @BaBomba you gave his post a winner, how am I trolling?

@nonamajdeath and @malikdanab played shaman I think

 

[malikdanab]

A shaman that knows how to recall doesn't run out of mana quickly. If you recall properly, you can use totems indefinitely. The only time you would run out of mana is if your spam other skills. That said, shamans' other skills are far from efficient. Is this really a problem when it has so little skills in the first place...not really. The problem with shaman isn't that it has mana problems, its that it has no skills to use it's mana so it just ends up doing nothing in fights

 

[JupiterRome]

I would agree but I can't rate forum posts... The root of the Shaman's lack of power is the mana costs in my
opinion. I have been playing the class for a day or two and actually PvPd with it in many situations such as team fights, small skirmishes, and 1v1s. My main problem with the class was how much mana they burn through within seconds. In a team
fight you go oomed in seconds to the point where it's not even funny, in small skirmishes you still go oomed quite quickly, but in 1v1s the mana
situation isn't the worst but it's still pitiful. I can safely say that @0xNaomi @JupiterRome
and @szatanista have never PvPd with this class, you guys don't even PvP nearly enough to
judge a class.... That is all.

Dude yeah I never pvp right? I probably was one of the most active pvpers all last map while most of all those so called pvp towns just left and I'm went on vacation like 3 days before new map and won't be back for a week so yeah I haunt pvped this map but last map shaman was brought in so op it carried to teams to an easy tourney win, shaman is in a good spot last time I checked and I have not heard of any changes, no shaman I know complained of mana just not lots of damage

 

[realmatt10000]

Dude yeah I never pvp right? I probably was one of the most active pvpers all last map while most of all those so called pvp towns just left and I'm went on vacation like 3 days before new map and won't be back for a week so yeah I haunt pvped this map but last map shaman was brought in so op it carried to teams to an easy tourney win, shaman is in a good spot last time I checked and I have not heard of any changes, no shaman I know complained of mana just not lots of damage

Not gonna lie here but last map was a joke and many people knew it which is why many people including the really good PvPers didn't play. I guarantee if you actually participate in a real team fight against an actual meta comp with decent people, your opinion about this class would entirely change.

 

[Aryios]

Basicly the mana cost are far from balanced, go look at the wiki and compare the class to the other healers or casters. Its not about if you run out of mana its about making balanced mana cost for the class. It looks like the mana cost have not been touched from around the time it was created.
I've played this class for quite a while and I think its one of my favorites, its just in a wierd spot. I want to see the changes for it come out already!

 

[malikdanab]

Basicly the mana cost are far from balanced, go look at the wiki and compare the class to the other healers or casters. Its not about if you run out of mana its about making balanced mana cost for the class. It looks like the mana cost have not been touched from around the time it was created.
I've played this class for quite a while and I think its one of my favorites, its just in a wierd spot. I want to see the changes for it come out already!

But that requires balancing.

 

[Egorh]

Ok

The only thing I currently see dragging down this fun class are the mana costs. It's a 5 strikes you're out type of deal with most of the spells costing 200 mana (assuming you have 1k mana). Can we see a drop in mana costs? Something like this:



ShockingStrike: 120>100

CleanseSpirit: 200>150

FirestrikeTotem 200>140

EarthenFury 100>80

HealingTotem 200>140

EngulfingTotem 200>140

HealingSurge 250>125

PrimalTotem 200>140

ForceTotem 200>140

WindGale 150>120

Either way, mana costs needs to be fixed. Thanks.

Although it has high mana costs it has ways of regaining mana. But even with 'mana aiding' skills the class still easily runs out of mana. This happens with every class. Disciple has Meditate and you will still constantly run out of mana, Wizard has replenish. Druid rarely runs out of mana from what I've seen. All classes that use mana, have mana problems (a few have exceptions).

What you are suggesting is taking away 545 mana 'usage' from Shaman. Which is about half the mana pool (my quick math could easily be wrong). Now, that is one hell of a buff. I could see a couple mana cost reductions but definitely not all of them

TotemRecall5 20 sec You call your active totem back, regaining mana proportional to how much of the totem's lifespan was used, minus 10 percent.
and

HealingSurge35250 30 sec You restore (145 + 0.25 per wisdom point) health and (2 + 0.03 per intellect point) percent mana and stamina to the target over 20 seconds. You receive 70 percent of this healing for yourself. Takes 3 seconds to warm up. (Wiki broken, you also gain less mana/stam back when used on yourself).


These are not a justifiable way to regain mana for the amount of the cost. You're looking at gaining back 227.5 mana back over 20 seconds, on a 10 second downtime. TotemRecall is just broken due to the current mana costs of the totems. You're looking at a pure auto attack melee class here.

When it comes to pvp, you don't have 20-30 seconds to sit back like you do in pve to wait on base mana regen to kick in to be effect again, only to spend 20+% mana again for one spell.

As Naomi pointed out, you also have the base mana regen. But there is something else you are forgetting, it is a TEAMFIGHT class. The majority of its skills are based around groups. If you plan to run Shaman and you run into mana problems put in a Bard, Beguiler or Necromancer to help with the mana problems. You should not be relying only on yourself while in a group

I would agree with this post but I can't rate stuff because I don't have a right to an opinion on this server. The root of the Shaman's lack of power is the mana costs in my opinion. I have been playing the class for a day or two and actually PvPd with it in many situations such as team fights, small skirmishes, and 1v1s. My main problem with the class was how much mana they burn through within seconds. In a team fight you go oomed in seconds to the point where it's not even funny, in small skirmishes you still go oomed quite quickly, but in 1v1s the mana situation isn't the worst but it's still pitiful. I can safely say that @0xNaomi @JupiterRome and @szatanista have never PvPd with this class, you guys don't even PvP nearly enough to judge a class.... That is all.

Although mana issues may be a problem of the class it is not the main reason for it being 'weak' or underplayed. The whole concept of controlling an area is extremely situation. The best case scenario I've seen a Shaman in is while holding a conquest point where they could place their totem right at the entrance. While in an open field it is very easy and simple to just not walk into the totem.

Overall this class has been fucked up since it was made. Extremely OP -> Hotfix nerf -> Still OP ->Transition to Caster ->Wonky as hell

It needs a complete rework

A shaman that knows how to recall doesn't run out of mana quickly. If you recall properly, you can use totem indefinitely. The only time you would run out of mana is if you spam other skills. That said, shamans' other skills are far from efficient. Is this really a problem when it has so little skills in the first place...not really. The problem with shaman isn't that it has mana problems, its that it has no skills to use it's mana so i just ends up doing nothing in fights

You are still going to have mana issues if you recall properly. Most of the time someone will be recalling their totem due to the fact that no one is even in range of it


I personally was not a fan of making it a caster. Although it may be labeled as a caster it was never changed/balanced properly.

 

[0xNaomi]

I would argue about knowing something, but balance on HC just doesn't really exist.

Shaman is unbalanced in PvP, so is every other class. A "meta" comp is just the one that stomps the hardest. Redoing Shaman is something I want to do, but that would require both balancing and the approval of kain, neither of which seem to ever be attainable.

It was put under "Caster", but nothing changed and it's not a caster. Kain's definitions on what defines "offensive" skills that made it a "caster" were just so broken that it just fell into the abyss after the change.

I'd love to go back, make it more supporty, all that jazz, but that's irrelevant to this. I don't set mana costs, and I don't know how the hell people play the class. If you know how to use things properly, Totems last forever. The other skills just feel tacked on and that's basically how they act. The kit was made around totems, that's what the mana costs were made for, that's what totemrecall was made for.

 

[Solidze]

What you are suggesting is taking away 545 mana 'usage' from Shaman. Which is about half the mana pool (my quick math could easily be wrong). Now, that is one hell of a buff.

Looks that way because the costs shouldn't have been that high in the first place.

 

[Solidze]

I would argue about knowing something, but balance on HC just doesn't really exist.

Shaman is unbalanced in PvP, so is every other class. A "meta" comp is just the one that stomps the hardest. Redoing Shaman is something I want to do, but that would require both balancing and the approval of kain, neither of which seem to ever be attainable.

It was put under "Caster", but nothing changed and it's not a caster. Kain's definitions on what defines "offensive" skills that made it a "caster" were just so broken that it just fell into the abyss after the change.

I'd love to go back, make it more supporty, all that jazz, but that's irrelevant to this. I don't set mana costs, and I don't know how the hell people play the class. If you know how to use things properly, Totems last forever. The other skills just feel tacked on and that's basically how they act. The kit was made around totems, that's what the mana costs were made for, that's what totemrecall was made for.

Not that it should be here, but I did notice that FlameStrike when it first hits a player and lights them on fire.....it won't damage them again until the target is no longer on fire.

 

[Egorh]

Looks that way because the costs shouldn't have been that high in the first place.

You aren't suppose to be using all of your skills. You pick and choose. It is a situational class. Spamming all of your short cooldown skills is obviously going to drain your mana. Just like constantly spamming Dragoon skills, you are going to run out of stamina quickly. Without a real rework this class will stay 'broken', whether it be broken weak, or broken strong

Justifying a huge buff with 'it shouldn't have been that high in the first place' is stupid