Suggestion Samurai needs tweaking

[ThatAintFalco]

If you really wanted a lore skill think of Bushido. Samurai fought in battle, but if they failed to kill someone, they would suicide. So maybe like a toggle, 50 % or so more damage, if they don't kill a player before the combat timer runs out, they die.

 

[whitemagehealu]

If you really wanted a lore skill think of Bushido. Samurai fought in battle, but if they failed to kill someone, they would suicide. So maybe like a toggle, 50 % or so more damage, if they don't kill a player before the combat timer runs out, they die.

Sees Samurai use Bushido, better start running so he will die lolololololol. That's even worse than Beserk.

 

[Disketa777]

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

[Fjordsen]

People who disagree to this thread are not currently samurais, so they pretty much doesn't know how weak we are as a warrior spec.

Samurai should have more HP, seeing that (still) a rogue spec has more.

 

[BulkPhase]

People who disagree to this thread are not currently samurais, so they pretty much doesn't know how weak we are as a warrior spec.

Samurai should have more HP, seeing that (still) a rogue spec has more.

You think I don't constantly PVP? You think I don't go against Samurai's or know how they work because I don't play one? You're ignorant, you don't need to be the class to understand it.

 

[Kwong050]

People who disagree to this thread are not currently samurais, so they pretty much doesn't know how weak we are as a warrior spec.

Samurai should have more HP, seeing that (still) a rogue spec has more.

I agree with the hp thing and I am not a sami

 

[Disketa777]

Have you considered that people are disagreeing with you because of the obvious holes in your logic? Let me count them down and address them in chronological order:

The last couple of weeks i've noticed more and more flaws in the way Samurai is changing. Let me list a few things that I really like to be fixed:

1) We lost our best skill Inversion and it was replaced with the new skill Berserk. Berserk is probably the most craptastic skill i've seen. First off, it increases damage income with 20%, samurai doesn't have the HP to tank up so much extra damage. Sure 30% more damage output is good, but not good enough to counter the fact that sammy lose more of their already limited HP. Berserk needs either a buff to outcome and less income or a replacement skill (Give inversion back taking 50% of enemy mana used instead of 75% like it used to)

2) The samurai HP. The last few days I noticed how low Samurai Hitpoints really is. A disciple has 110 more HP then a samurai. Even worse, the ROGUE spec Ranger have more max HP then the WARRIOR spec Samurai. I mean come on, ranger has 2 pieces of samurai armor and more HP then a sammy. Why not make samurai a rogue and ranger a Warrior?

3) Samurai armor. Classes like bard and Ranger got nearly the same armor as a samurai. I mean, a Warrior is supposed to have an armor advantage over a rogue, but if a sammy fights a Bard, there is barely any difference. The Warrior path is more tank then a samurai.

4) The damage. A samurai does 90dmg with diamond sword which is more then any other warrior. However a rogue spec like Ranger have nearly the same armor, more HP and twice the damage. Samurai is like a weaker rogue.

5) 50+ skills. To be hounest, there is no reason whatsoever to make it to level 60 samurai. Mortalwound do 108dmg which is 13 more damage then bash and it takes 2 more stam then bash. The only use of mortalwound is to weaken the enemy's healing abilities, but it's not worth it due to the huge stam cost. One is a cool skill, but takes just as much stam as mortalwound. The stam cost makes it useless to anything but fleeing/chasing. Berserk, Berserk is explained in the first point.



Proposed change: Replace berserk with a weaker Inversion.
Give samurai one more iron/dia pieces of armor. (Iron helmet or dia boots).
Give samurai more then 1000HP. Currently our max HP is 986 which is less then a Ranger's max.(And far less then a disciple's max)
Make Mortalwound worth the 5 stam cost by making it bleed 200dmg over 20 sec and decrease healing by 25% instead of 50. (Need input)


Thanks for reading, please give input/feedback. I know samurai was a bit overpowered a few updates ago, but believe me, samurai were nerfed a bit too hard.

Some samurais who might have input: @victim130 @Aetosion @Malomarcus @nonamemajdeath @Symbolite @donaldmax1

1) Berserk does sound like a terrible skill if you go against the enemies and just swing your sword. But PVP is more than that. I can imagine so many situations for it's use. For example, if you're in a party, let the tanks go into battle first, then you charge in with berserk while the enemies are distracted. Or if you only like to 1v1, use One to get away if you start losing too much HP, heal up, then charge back at the enemy. These are only a couple of ideas out of so many more than I can think of.

And sure berserk may not fit the mental discipline of the samurai, but a skill's name have no effect on the actual skill itself. If you want it to fit the imaginary samurai, then why not suggest to have it renamed to something that would fit the sammy's mental discipline? Like trance?

2) Maybe the samurai could use more hp I don't know for myself because I am not one. But your argument is weak. Yes, the disciple does have more hp than you. But so what? You do far more damage then them, and you have better armor. Going up against a disciple, the samurai has a very decent chance of winning. It's the same with ranger: yes it has more hp than a sammy, but once the samurai gets in close (using One, perhaps?) the ranger can't use his bow on you. And his diamond tier melee damage is less than a disciple.The sammy can easily hold his own against a ranger.

3) The armor seems to be a fair balance in the sammy. The sammy is one of the strongest melee specs on HC. Giving him more armor, would be the same as making them both damage dealers, and tanks at the same time. This is one of the finest definitions of OP. Balance would have the samurai's damage slashed severely if they got more armor. Sure the ranger and bard have about the same armor as you. But the bard, much like the disciple, does less damage than you. The bard even seems to have less hp than you (900 mastered). 1v1 between a sammy and a bard looks one-sided to me. And I already covered Ranger.

4) You're right. The Ranger does to far more damage than a samurai... in ranged combat. I established already that the rangers bow is not so useful in melee combat.

The ninja and thief also do much more damage than a sammy. But they... kind of have less armor as well as less HP. That looks rather balanced imo.


5) I agree with mortal wound. It does seem to need tweaking since it is just an expensive Bash. But One is a very useful skill that fits the samurai gracefully. You have complained about the low hp and meager armor that does little to keep the samurai alive, but the samurais survival can now be helped when they get One. The stamina cost should not at all be a concern either because there are two main situations where sammy's would use One:

-To chase down someone who is low hp and trying to escape. In which case, a few more sword swings will soon finish the job with no more need to use stamina costing skills.
- And to run away when the Sammy himself is low HP. In which case, you won't be using stamina consuming skills because you are no longer trying to fight at the moment. And putting distance between you and the enemy allows for much breathing room to regain stamina as well as health.

And I already covered Berserk.

I hope this was informative.

-Disketa777

 

[Jinder745]

Berserk would be amazing in a team fight where your not being focused you could just rape so many people how is it craptastic?

 

[Fjordsen]

Berserk would be amazing in a team fight where your not being focused you could just rape so many people how is it craptastic?

Because if a thief/ninja hit you once, you lose 2 hearts? Every level 60 samurai I've talked to said they never use Berserk ever, because of the huge drawback.

Aetosion suggested to change it to 5% more damage income and 15% more outcome. If it was like that, i'd use it all the time.

Also, Samurai needs a HP buff. It shouldn't be possible for a rogue to tank better then a warrior. Maybe something around 1020HP?

@Kainzo

 

[Dielan9999]

I think the point of the samurai is to trade HP for damage.

If you compare straight melee damage of the Samurai to the Paladin or DK the difference is crazy.

If you want to be satisfied with your damage and have more HP, go Dragoon.

 

[Fjordsen]

I think the point of the samurai is to trade HP for damage.

If you compare straight melee damage of the Samurai to the Paladin or DK the difference is crazy.

If you want to be satisfied with your damage and have more HP, go Dragoon.

Then why not give Bard 1300HP because they do little damage? A DK or Paladin can easily beat a Samurai just because of their HP and armor.

I won't go Goon because Samurai is the only class I want to use. I enjoy Samurai more then I enjoy Goon on the test server.

Samurais don't trade HP for Damage. When we lost our HP last patch, we also lost our damage. We used to do 10~100 damage, now we do 90.

 

[Dielan9999]

Then why not give Bard 1300HP because they do little damage?

Wait a minute.

Your primary argument for increasing samurai's health is because they are a warrior spec, so now you are suggesting bards get an HP buff because they don't do damage?

They are a rouge spec, so even in your logic that doesn't make sense.

Bards are a completely different thing than Samurais, they are a support class and balance far different then the high DPS classes like Samurai.

 

[Fjordsen]

Wait a minute.

Your primary argument for increasing samurai's health is because they are a warrior spec, so now you are suggesting bards get an HP buff because they don't do damage?

They are a rouge spec, so even in your logic that doesn't make sense.

Bards are a completely different thing than Samurais, they are a support class and balance far different then the high DPS classes like Samurai.

That was a fucking example of your logic.

You said "They sacrifice HP for DMG" so I said "Then all classes with low DMG should be a tank". It wasn't meant to be serious -_-

 

[Disketa777]

Because if a thief/ninja hit you once, you lose 2 hearts? Every level 60 samurai I've talked to said they never use Berserk ever, because of the huge drawback.

Aetosion suggested to change it to 5% more damage income and 15% more outcome. If it was like that, i'd use it all the time.

I can't help but feel like you are incapable of strategy. Berserk is a skill that takes... skill to use.

What if you sneak up on your unsuspecting, unprepared opponent? What if you opponent is occupied fighting an ally? What if you use One to get away and heal if you take too much damage?

In my honest opinion, Berserk sounds primarily like a party oriented skill. But as heavy damage dealers, some samurais are used to 1v1ing all the time, making berserk far too risky, and making people like you proclaim it "craptastic".

 

[Fjordsen]

I can't help but feel like you are incapable of strategy. Berserk is a skill that takes... skill to use.

What if you sneak up on your unsuspecting, unprepared opponent? What if you opponent is occupied fighting an ally? What if you use One to get away and heal if you take too much damage?

In my honest opinion, Berserk sounds primarily like a party oriented skill. But as heavy damage dealers, some samurais are used to 1v1ing all the time, making berserk far too risky, and making people like you proclaim it "craptastic".

Samurai is a 1v1 class.

Also, when I am in midst battle and using Berserk, i'd use 6 stam on Berserk, 6 stam on Bleed and 12 stam on Bashx2. Now where do I get the 10 stam to use One from?

 

[Disketa777]

Like I said, it takes skill. For example, you could try NOT using bash twice.

You would still do much damage from using your regular sword! It's an extreme concept, I know. But I think you can do it.

And Samurai is a 1v1 class? Are you incapable by the server plugin to join parties and team up??

 

[Fjordsen]

Like I said, it takes skill. For example, you could try NOT using bash twice.

You would still do much damage from using your regular sword! It's an extreme concept, I know. But I think you can do it.

And Samurai is a 1v1 class? Are you incapable by the server plugin to join parties and team up??

Samurai is supposed to be one of HC's best 1v1 class. Also, you say I should use my sword instead of bash, but did you know Bash penetrate armor? When I hit a DK, I do less then 80dmg with Berserk on, but Bash do 95dmg.

Why I use Bash a lot: My sword damage was nerfed, aswell with all my 40+ skills. I never use any 30+ skills. Bash penetrate armor. Bash has little Cooldown. Bash do more damage then my sword.

 

[Disketa777]

Then don't use berserk against anyone with decent armor. You won't be fighting nothing but DK's and Pallys on this server, and most other classes have mediocre armor once you rule them out. Once you do that, there is a chance you might notice Bash don't do much more than your sword.

I can give you scenarios for when to use and not use berserk, but you really should try out this thing called strategy for yourself. You can't just keep asking me for advice on how to use your own class.

And from what I've seen, Samurai still is one of HC's best 1v1 class. But does that render you incapable of ever having a team mate? Are samurais, by admins rule, only supposed to 1v1? Berserk would do wonders in party pvp, but if you have any personal restrictions preventing you from ever partying up, please stop trying to remove a skill that other samurais could use if they decide to party up.

 

[iTzDeXy]

I won't go Goon because Samurai is the only class I want to use. I enjoy Samurai more then I enjoy Goon on the test server.

The test server is not the same as the real thing, it never hurts to just try out a class. I went from a sammy to Dragoon thinking that it would be bad because they do lower DPS and all that but I enjoyed it, there is more things to do than just pvp and if you stick to one type of gameplay it will probably get boring pretty quickly.

I also agrea partly to what you are saying EtKEnn, but I am a max sammy right now and I kill people with ease still and I dont see much difference from when they had inversion to now and all you have to do is adapt to a new style of pvp/pve and try out some new combos and all that, even though sammys DO need a hp buff its not a massive deal because you can still kick ass by using one and running around the person you are trying to kill, it makes it really hard for them to do much to you unless they have something like root but even then its hard to lock on to you and I think thats why sammys got a nuff because for me atleast one is a OP skill for sammys and with one you can deal soooo much damage without them even being able to touch you if you do it right.

I dont think sammys getting a HP buff would change much but it might you never know till it's tried and I think it is kinda fair seeing as a far range class suchas ranger has more HP than a CQB class but theres my input anyway

ENJOY!

What do you think of that @EtKEnn ?

 

[Fjordsen]

The test server is not the same as the real thing, it never hurts to just try out a class. I went from a sammy to Dragoon thinking that it would be bad because they do lower DPS and all that but I enjoyed it, there is more things to do than just pvp and if you stick to one type of gameplay it will probably get boring pretty quickly.

I also agrea partly to what you are saying EtKEnn, but I am a max sammy right now and I kill people with ease still and I dont see much difference from when they had inversion to now and all you have to do is adapt to a new style of pvp/pve and try out some new combos and all that, even though sammys DO need a hp buff its not a massive deal because you can still kick ass by using one and running around the person you are trying to kill, it makes it really hard for them to do much to you unless they have something like root but even then its hard to lock on to you and I think thats why sammys got a nuff because for me atleast one is a OP skill for sammys and with one you can deal soooo much damage without them even being able to touch you if you do it right.

I dont think sammys getting a HP buff would change much but it might you never know till it's tried and I think it is kinda fair seeing as a far range class suchas ranger has more HP than a CQB class but theres my input anyway

ENJOY!

What do you think of that @EtKEnn ?

Sounds like someone found some new ways with One. However, I don't want to base my strategy on One as it takes 10 stam and has a 45 second cooldown.