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Suggestion Rule consistency, griefing, and rule ambiguity

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Karsain

Glowing Redstone
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
This map, same rules changed. We can now create our own darkrooms, and we can apparently grief anything we want. There had been some talk saying that grief is legal. According to this screenshot, replying to my pe, it is legal. https://gyazo.com/7108a619eed6164da5a686b59c498828 Keep in mind, my pe was "someone mindlessly grief this volcano with random cobblestone" . That is interesting that they would say that grief is legal, when it directly is in conflict with the rules on hc.to/rules. People need to know what is legal and what is illegal. I personally think that all greifing should be illegal. You don't need to be able to grief to have a server be hardcore. People joined this server this map thinking that grief would be illegal, and I saw 120 people at launch. 120 people wanted or were ok with grief being illegal. Now lets compare that to the faction server you tried to start up. That faction server was completely dead. People knew that grief would be legal on the faction server, so nobody wanted play. If you let people grief this map, it will go the same way the faction server did. Also, you installed a plugin to try to maintain the map to keep it from becoming ugly, the new mod that turns logs into glass and then re-spawns the logs? What was the point of installing that mod if you are going to let people grief the server anyways? The grieving rule is not even outlined and nobody knows were to draw the line. Kenneth chow literally told me griefing was allowed, and then I asked him why that person got banned. He told me he got banned for griefing the wilderness. Well on this server their are 2 things: towns and wilderness. You can't grief people's towns because they are regioned. You and you can't grief the wilderness because the rules say you can't grief the wilderness. So doesn't that mean that greifing is illegal? Like I said, according to kenneth_chow, griefing is allowed. But the rules say, on hc.to/rules, that griefing the wilderness mindlessly is prohibited. So if their is a difference between mindlessly griefing and griefing with a purpose, where do you draw the line? Their is always a purpose to everything anyone does, it just might now be a good reason. The rule is bad, needs clarification, people are spouting in o chat saying grefing is legal when it says it isn't in the rule book.
 

Kenneth_Chow

Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
When you quote someone don't put their in your own words defeats the purpose of quoting someone. I told you simple things like placing cobble into that lava lake or those cobble pillars were legal. (Which was the pe you kept recreating)

I then told you it is illegal when it is a mass destruction of a biome. Such as http://i.imgur.com/PVmsG8Z.png

I do agree the term mindless was badly chosen and will be looked into but creating multiples PE's and whining in chat does nothing.

". People joined this server this map thinking that grief would be illegal, and I saw 120 people at launch. 120 people wanted or were ok with grief being illegal."

That right there is false because when you asked in help if griefing was legal most people told you it was you just didn't pay attention. Assuming for a whole playerbase is never a good idea.
 
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Kenneth_Chow

Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Yeah and griefing is allowed. I don't see what's the problem unless you're having a hard time understand a few words
 

Nikewade

Soulsand
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Umm.. Yet I was banned for grief? xD I don't get it. What I did was not mass destruction of a biome.. it was grief to a town. That whole area was basically claimed by this said town.
 

Kenneth_Chow

Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Umm.. Yet I was banned for grief? xD I don't get it. What I did was not mass destruction of a biome.. it was grief to a town. That whole area was basically claimed by this said town.

What you did was mass destruction of a biome, Kainzo agreed with the ban.
 

Nikewade

Soulsand
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Which grief was I banned for exactly? I'm not sure you actually saw what I did. Today's grief was not me. I was blamed for doing todays because someone went and copied what I did. Even then I just put one lava bucket down one tree that was connected to their town. aka griefing a town.
 

Nikewade

Soulsand
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Do you have pics of what I did? I would really.. really like to see this "mass destruction of a biome". Also now you are saying it was mass destrcution of a biome when it was "mindless grief" a few hours ago? This ban seems really out of hand.
 

joshtsai

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 23, 2012
Which grief was I banned for exactly? I'm not sure you actually saw what I did. Today's grief was not me. I was blamed for doing todays because someone went and copied what I did. Even then I just put one lava bucket down one tree that was connected to their town. aka griefing a town.

Here's proof it was you

1gOWHWg.png


Here's one half of the incident in question
http://i.imgur.com/PVmsG8Z.png

And also thanks to you asking for proof I was able to figure the friend that also did this with you, he's banned for the same amount of time as you now.
 

Nikewade

Soulsand
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Um. Today's grief was not me. I did grief yesterday. Hints why it says 19hours 51mins. And yes as I said.. I griefed which is ALLOWED. That picture was from today and I had no part in that. I placed ONE bucket of lava on ONE block on top of a tree. The lava then fell onto the town which I was clearly trying to grief. Now please show me some more evidence that I mass griefed a biome? And is this mass grief of a biome a new rule, and if so I was not updated nor was I banned at the time of this rule so I think that calls for an unban.
 

Nikewade

Soulsand
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
PS: When @Kenneth_Chow asked who helped me I told him... as well as I NEVER kept it a secret that I was griefing, and I even asked the staff many times if it was allowed. I would have stopped at ANY time if the staff team had any knowledge of their own rules.
It seems to me as if you guys are making up rules as it goes. Just accept that the ban was wrong, and unban me. I just want to lvl and make a damn town..........
 

Kenneth_Chow

Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
The staff you should only be asking about rules that may get you ban are mods/admins. I doubt a mod or admin told you that was legal. Mindless griefing is not defined well a better term is massive biome griefing which is what you did with those gaint tree in lava.

And please keep your bans out of this discussion and in your appeal.

Also your ban was not our decision, it was Kainzo. We only keep the ban at 1 week because it was the start of the map it could have been a lot longer. Accept what you did and learn from it.
 

Kenneth_Chow

Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Edit:

Staff will look into making the rule more clear. Thanks for the feedback
 

joshtsai

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
May 23, 2012
Um. Today's grief was not me. I did grief yesterday. Hints why it says 19hours 51mins. And yes as I said.. I griefed which is ALLOWED. That picture was from today and I had no part in that. I placed ONE bucket of lava on ONE block on top of a tree. The lava then fell onto the town which I was clearly trying to grief. Now please show me some more evidence that I mass griefed a biome? And is this mass grief of a biome a new rule, and if so I was not updated nor was I banned at the time of this rule so I think that calls for an unban.
The Log history is at the top of the tree that you can see in screenshot that I took of the lava. I'm not making up rules as I go, I took a screenshot of the lava spread, showed it to Kainzo, and he said that it was a bannable offense. I honestly don't care when it was done. The logs show you and comethawk placing lava on top of 2 trees(which you don't deny) and Kainzo has ruled that it is indeed mindless grief of the landscape regardless of how close it is to a town or how strategic you think it was.
 

Kenneth_Chow

Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Locking this thread as it is straying a negative way.

Staff well look to make the rule clearer for people having trouble understanding the rules. Thanks!
 
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