Remove deep freeze

[GreekCrackShot]

@xexorian once again, it was a 5v1 situation where I was able to get away by using a swiftness potion, while having endurance on, I used health potion to get back to full health, then situationally used becomedeath to swim to the bottom of the ocean. I then recalled after regaining my mana. Piggify hindered you in that battle more than it did to me, because it just swam faster in the water due to the bugginess of it. You got ONE fireball off on me. You missed the rest.

Stop being so fucking cocky about killing a few noobs. Just because you can't kill me doesn't mean you get to bash my entire class.

It pisses me off that the time you used piggify on me, and it sent me to void, you PM'd me afterward saying that "I deserved it".... It smells so much like you just think because I can kill you, it means my entire class deserves a massive nerf.

Maybe I just misinterpreted that, but you didn't specify.

You also whine that because you've only gotten 3 hearts on me in battle, that that automatically makes me OP.... First off. I've fought you ONCE since the fireball buff. Secondly, you are and always have been a lower level than me, it's not easy to fight a mastered player 1v1 win. Thirdly, YOU'VE GOT NO PROOF. Where's your video showing how OP I am? You're the only one to bash DKs since the update! And You've got nothing, nada, τίποτα, to show for it.

 

[xexorian]

Whatever you say, buddy. I know I landed more fireballs than that. I'm just going to run fraps more often I guess. It's inherently hard to get video when I'm already being attacked and don't have it running. Yeah, I know we've had issues, and the "deserve" it part you know damn well was directed at you for your abuse of your guide powers to close a PE I had opened because you didn't want the possibility of a mod showing up to see you guys griefing to get into my town. Afraid of something?

Anyway it goes, That's already been sorted, or did you forget? So you're wrong on the whole, I'm just bashing DK's because I can. Also, we have a few DK's that are specced and are near master and they're no where near as OP as you because they don't use everything they could be, IE: potions, etc. I didn't see you use endurance during that 3v1 you're specifically referring to, and I missed ONE of FOUR fireballs, unless they simply didn't register. Which is why I'd like to have had fraps, so I can prove that part to you. Victim even asked me in TS "why didn't he die?", he saw them land as well, including the one missed one. I like how you're immediately on the defensive with "YOU'VE GOT NO PROOF." Before I can even accuse you of using a mob riding mod to control that pig in the water. Though, I wasn't going to until you got all whiny.

So, fair enough. Whatever you say. I'm done talking in this way off-topic conversation with you about it.

 

[HollowSith]

Whatever you say, buddy. I know I landed more fireballs than that. I'm just going to run fraps more often I guess. It's inherently hard to get video when I'm already being attacked and don't have it running. Yeah, I know we've had issues, and the "deserve" it part you know damn well was directed at you for your abuse of your guide powers to close a PE I had opened because you didn't want the possibility of a mod showing up to see you guys griefing to get into my town. Afraid of something?

Anyway it goes, That's already been sorted, or did you forget? So you're wrong on the whole, I'm just bashing DK's because I can. Also, we have a few DK's that are specced and are near master and they're no where near as OP as you because they don't use everything they could be, IE: potions, etc. I didn't see you use endurance during that 3v1 you're specifically referring to, and I missed ONE of FOUR fireballs, unless they simply didn't register. Which is why I'd like to have had fraps, so I can prove that part to you. Victim even asked me in TS "why didn't he die?", he saw them land as well, including the one missed one. I like how you're immediately on the defensive with "YOU'VE GOT NO PROOF." Before I can even accuse you of using a mob riding mod to control that pig in the water. Though, I wasn't going to until you got all whiny.

So, fair enough. Whatever you say. I'm done talking in this way off-topic conversation with you about it.

Ever hear the story of the boy who cried OP? or.. Maybe, the boy who cried illegal mod? Stop acting like a snob, @xexorian . It isn't very becoming. The whole, "I didn't win/ I can't kill him, so he must be cheating or OP" attitude is make you look more and more childish by the post. Stop. This thread was for the criticism of DeepFreeze, not how under powered your class is and how over powered DK is. What's worse, is that when people defend against your claims you continue to throw it down an even deeper hole by making negative personal accusations and claims (Greek's staff rank). You said you'd stop on this thread, but stop on them all. If you have a problem, take it to PE's or exploiting thread or something.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

This has become personal. So I will not comment on the first paragraph due to the fact you should know better than to dwell on the past and attempt to make me look bad as staff by presenting the 1 measly mistake I've made as a Guide which happened about 2 months ago.

Also, we have a few DK's that are specced and are near master and they're no where near as OP as you because they don't use everything they could be, IE: potions, etc.

Everyone has access to potions. You cannot stereotype a class because someone uses them and can stay alive that much longer. You are also contradicting yourself. You say that you're not using me as a representation for the entire DK class, yet you say "They are no where as OP as you because they don't use everything they could be"... You can't nerf a class because they are "too good with potions" or because one player is "too good" in general.

I didn't see you use endurance during that 3v1 you're specifically referring to, and I missed ONE of FOUR fireballs, unless they simply didn't register.

Endurance is passive once it's casted. I could've casted it an hour before the fight and it would still be on during the fight.

I like how you're immediately on the defensive with "YOU'VE GOT NO PROOF." Before I can even accuse you of using a mob riding mod to control that pig in the water. Though, I wasn't going to until you got all whiny.

Haha you've resulted to accusing me of illegal mods? LOL

Don't act so smug, you aren't phasing me, kid.

 

[Dazureus]

 

[xexorian]

You said you'd stop on this thread, but stop on them all. If you have a problem, take it to PE's or exploiting thread or something.

I did, and he was reprimanded for his actions. Then brings it up and doesn't remember why I said he deserved something in the past and tries to play it off in some excuse for my claims.

This has become personal.

While I would be hypocritical at this point to say You guys won't let it drop, I feel I am correct on this.

attempt to make me look bad as staff by presenting the 1 measly mistake I've made as a Guide which happened about 2 months ago.

1) you did that to yourself
2) you're awfully forgetful, 2 months ago my ass.

Everyone has access to potions. You cannot stereotype a class because someone uses them and can stay alive that much longer.

Unless we didn't have access to netherwarts, when you did, unless we're not rich, like you were, unless potions didn't have a cooldown, like they do now. Funny how there's a lot of stuff working for you.

You are also contradicting yourself. You say that you're not using me as a representation for the entire DK class, yet you say "They are no where as OP as you because they don't use everything they could be"... You can't nerf a class because they are "too good with potions" or because one player is "too good" in general.

1) Yes maybe I did a little. and..
2) Irrelevant, Potions or not, you should have died. Period.

Endurance is passive once it's casted. I could've casted it an hour before the fight and it would still be on during the fight.

Also, Endurance is a passive? I had no idea. I thought it boosted your defense and lowered your offense temporarily (as in had a time limit like flameshield or any other buff.) My bad, I'll start purging you, and every DK I see, on sight.

Haha you've resulted to accusing me of illegal mods? LOL
Don't act so smug, you aren't phasing me, kid.

What? Resulted, ... I already said you went way too defensive on that, and even stated I should post a video of it to prove it.. I honestly don't know what you're getting at with this comment.

/the end

edit: afterthoughts,

You go through the effort of obtaining (difficult at the time) these instant health potions just so you can 1v3 or 1v4 unprepared specced people in Newerth to annoy ppl, then fail miserably, and now are trying to defend your attempt because we cried OP on alchemy potions? they were already nerfed, so you don't really have a point to keep going (I think.)

You recalled to keep a few diamonds and iron worth of gear, food, and possibly a few pots. Why? That's impossibly more infuriating than actually attacking/raiding to begin with. *cough* tree creeper *cough* levels of pvp etiquette, imho.

Two of the biggest pvp nuisances (I won't use the T word) trying to abuse every advantage they can and teaming up defending themselves on forums even after nerfs = good times.

/fin

 

[Dielan9999]

@xexo's last quote/response


Greek, when did he accuse you of illegal mods?

I think everybody should relax, and that includes you too Greek. You act as though you are superior to everyone, like you are always right. That's not true. You can't expect people to not get offended by your posts with such disposition.

Juss' sayin

 

[GreekCrackShot]

I have not claimed my superiority, I am not saying I am better than anyone else. Just defending myself and my class as best I can. I have not once stated I am some "Godly pvp figure". I am good, but I am not claiming myself to be the best. I'm not here to buff my own class. I was here to state my opinion about deepfreeze and casters in general.

then xexo comes in trying to buff his own class (TOTALLY offtopic) and trashed DKs for something they aren't.

I reply to protect my class, because I feel it is being bashed out of rage. xexo brings up how I made a mistake (Come on, we're all human) as a staff member.... Why? why was that necessary? Please explain to me how "Oh well greek is a guide that abuses his powers" supports your argument against Dreadknights?

You go through the effort of obtaining (difficult at the time) these instant health potions just so you can 1v3 or 1v4 unprepared specced people in Newerth to annoy ppl, then fail miserably, and now are trying to defend your attempt because we cried OP on alchemy potions? they were already nerfed, so you don't really have a point to keep going (I think.)

No one from newerth or nevermore or lightforge has ever killed me. So no, I have not failed miserably. I'm not there to annoy you, I'm there cuz you guys are easy kills and it seems like 9/10 times I go there solo it's a 1v1 or a 1v2. Something your group lacks is organization. If you're going to beat 5 guys, you can't just send out an unorganized group of 3 - you'll get stomped on, especially against my town.

 

[Diffuse]

This thread has been derailed so badly lol. Stop talking about yourselves or any spec that isn't a geomancer/wizard please.

Just to throw this out there, people say that casters beat warriors and lose to rogues, but my brother (a level 50 ninja) loses 7 hearts in 2 seconds vs geomancers right now. There is absolutely nothing he can do about it other than have insane timing with escape artist and even then it is incredibly likely that he will get hit by fireball and icebolt. If casters are supposed to beat warriors and lose to rogues then why the fuck are they beating everything right now?

This shit needs to be fixed. I've sat here for a month while watching armored dreadknights shit on everything along with geomancers and wizards and nothing has been done besides small nerfing to dreadknights. Whenever I try to complain or make a statement I get either a)"/CH OP" which fixes absolutely nothing; even the fucking text color makes it obvious that nobody is expected to discuss things in it. b) "stfu, classes are balanced, you're just bad" that is just retarded, it is beyond obvious that there is incredible imbalance. Or c) "Go to forums" which I have tried, but then it gets insanely derailed by personal shit and dreadknight complaints. One thing to notice about c is that dreadknights seem to be something that are still constantly complained about, maybe this indicates that something is still wrong.

I don't like tagging because I imagine it gets annoying for you @Kainzo , but all this imbalance is ruining pvp and I have seen little to no action to fix it. Many suggestions have been thrown out from reducing dreadknight's armor to reducing fireball damage to removing deep freeze. I beg you, please do something sometime soon before I find myself forced into a spec to even have a fighting chance.

 

[Dielan9999]

@GreekCrackShot Diffuse has a point. This topic has been totally derailed.

Xexo and I have brought up specs other than Wizards and Geo's because it's relevant to how skills are balanced, same goes for the Warrior classes that our spells(deepfreeze included) are supposed to be effective against. I'd like to point out that your last paragraph (which for the sake of keeping this short I'm not quoting) is a contradiction to your first, and my claim that you talk down to people. You nearly tip-toe the border between acceptable trolling and harassment, and I know you are better than that. I'll just stop there.

@Diffuse I do think your Ninja vs Geo is a fair comparrison to complain about, but at the same time you comparing the highest damage dealing rogue class (which also has the second lowest HP of the rogues) to the highest damage dealing Caster class whose maximum HP is only 1HP lower than the Ninja's. I don't think Ninja's are best fit to take out ranged classes, I think theives (who have higher HP) are way better for that. Also once a caster uses up all their mana on a kill (which wizard does EVERY kill) they are completely vounerable and helpless. That's the price they pay for the highest damage in the game.

Spoiler: tl;dr

Caster's ignore armor with their high damage skills (which is intended)

Geo's have 1 less HP than Ninja's when both are mastered

The ninja doesn't have skills to make up the damage over time difference in a 1v1 pvp fight

In a straight up slap-fight, Ninja loses everytime

In a group setting, two ninjas beats two geos everytime

 

[Trompeten]

I agree that Geomancer vs. Ninja is quite unbalanced right now in an open fight. However, I believe that's not because geomancers are OP (while they were initially too strong, that has mostly been fixed by the various nerfs), but because of ninjas are quite weak at the moment against most kind of classes in an open fight at the moment. While this isn't directly related to the topic, I don't think the difference in power between ninja and geomancer can be fixed by a geomancer nerf, but more by a ninja buff.

On the other hand, imo Ninjas, and rogues in general, are more of a sneaky class, set up to surprise enemies by the various skills they have for hiding/sneak attacking (such as Sneak, Smoke, Tumble to jump on enemies etc.) rather than openly attacking. If a ninja gets in close to any caster, he can silence them for 9 seconds if timed correctly, making every caster an easy prey. I still don't get why most rogue I see tries to kill me by simply running up to me.

Back to the topic.
I don't think DeepFreeze should be completely removed. Without it, geomancers lack a way to reliably deal damage, as most skills are skillshots like fireball or icebolt. Deepfreeze allows geomancers to quickly nuke a single enemy, which is somewhat the point of the caster, while removing it would cause geomancers to have to rely on their aiming abilities with fireball, which is especially hard for players with lag and which can be dodged easily if the enemy is skilled.

However, I think DeepFreeze should have a row of changes. I still think Deepfreeze should root (which is kinda logical, since DEEPFreeze indicates it doesn't slows you, but rather freezes you solid), but then wizard's Root should root again too. However, if Root is left with a slow rather than a root, Deepfreeze should be reduced to a slow aswell. DeepFreeze should also break on any damage, but still deal extra damage when broken by fire, allowing geomancers to decide either to deal more damage, do something else strategically useful (i.e. icebolt to slow even more) or flee.

Finally, can anybody tell me what the range of DeepFreeze? I can't seem to find it on the wiki, but Root has a range of 10 + (level*0.1), resulting in a maximum of 15.5 blocks. From various tests, I have deduced that DeepFreeze has around 8 blocks range on a geomancer level 40. I'd like to know if this is a static range, or if the range increasing per level too.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Honestly, i think just toning down fireball to 15-20 dmg would fix most of people's problems. Me and crazy6227 were fighting 3 wizards outside nevermore (they were attacking nm and i got my shit rocked (that's what's supposed to happen) because they all targetted me with bolt and i died in a matter of seconds. But crazy, master ranger died in a matter of seconds after me, despite being a "caster killer". Granted, it was basically a 3v1, but the way he saw it, he didnt stand a chance against them.

 

[skittles32009]

not to invalidate your point greek, but 3v2 still puts you at bad odds. if anyone gets focus fired in any game, they WILL go down regardless of if they are meant to kill that class or not.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Never said we were in the clear to win. I am saying that they CRUSHED us so badly. Even if it was a 3v2, no one should be able to take a small group out in a matter of seconds, unless it was a big group vs a small group

 

[HollowSith]

As a Wizard/ Geo Master... I can say without a doubt the 4 classes I am afraid of, are Dreadknight, Ninja, or another Wizard/Geomancer.

Reason being Dreadknight's harmtouch slaughters us. Many don't use Manafreeze, but when I fight Graink 1v1, he certainly does. He does it when I'm trying to kite FOR mana. Which fucks me up entirely.

Ninja is the biggest caster killer in the game. 9 second silence, completely ruins my ability to Kite or even use any attacks worth while. Meaning, as a Wizard I can't blink away and they just openly cut me to bits. As a Geomancer, I need to get closer then a Wizard to use Deepfreeze, but if I'm sucker'd into getting to close and then silenced.. Well.. Not much I can do for the 9 seconds. (kick + garrote)

Geo vs Geo or Wiz vs Wiz is only based off who gets the first slowing move. Typically, the Geo will win because of the large amount of damage.

Point of this post. @Diffuse your brother just needs to utilize all of his skills in an efficient fashion. Promise you, I'd probably get raped.

Strategies save lives!

 

[look_out]

As a Wizard/ Geo Master... I can say without a doubt the 4 classes I am afraid of, are Dreadknight, Ninja, or another Wizard/Geomancer.

Reason being Dreadknight's harmtouch slaughters us. Many don't use Manafreeze, but when I fight Graink 1v1, he certainly does. He does it when I'm trying to kite FOR mana. Which fucks me up entirely.

Ninja is the biggest caster killer in the game. 9 second silence, completely ruins my ability to Kite or even use any attacks worth while. Meaning, as a Wizard I can't blink away and they just openly cut me to bits. As a Geomancer, I need to get closer then a Wizard to use Deepfreeze, but if I'm sucker'd into getting to close and then silenced.. Well.. Not much I can do for the 9 seconds. (kick + garrote)

Geo vs Geo or Wiz vs Wiz is only based off who gets the first slowing move. Typically, the Geo will win because of the large amount of damage.

Point of this post. @Diffuse your brother just needs to utilize all of his skills in an efficient fashion. Promise you, I'd probably get raped.

Strategies save lives!

True Story.

 

[Kainzo]

Keep the posts civil btw

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Magic vs. Magic, i guess you have a point about 1v1'ing dreadknights @HollowSith . But the issue here is that there is an easy way to avoid getting your mana frozen or harmtouched -> stay out of range, use slowing skills as much as possible (root, df, piggify, despair) and spam as many ranged skills as you can (fireball mostly). The only time you will lose, is if you let said dreadknight get a high dmging skill off on you.

I fought a low level beguiler yesterday and he nearly killed me just using combos of piggify and fireball. He would sprint away after every use of fireball. His failure came when he got too close to the pig, and i would decay and/or soulleech him. I think something i would recommend to a caster, is always have a swiftness potion on you to make a speedy getaway.

 

[HollowSith]

I wasn't implying I always lose. Just a very good chance. I get kinda scetchy when I see those 4 classes haha. Also, the 2ish seconds it takes to 360 fireball makes it hard to run, and be accurate. Roots 4 seconds really don't help any more I find, because after I use it, I spend a second or two, looking to see if he is indeed actually rooted, then after the fireball or bolt, I have no time and he's in my face haha. Swiftness potions will be a definite must in the near future (as in next time I go for PVP).

 

[arcanegrove]

I'm slightly confused y any melee class can beat a geomancer. Geomancers have an Awsome skill called icyaura that slows and deals Dmg. So deepfreeze, fireball, icyaura, fireball again and nothing stands a chance. Can't figure out why DK's are being called OP. just place a blaze and cast icyaura, and every thing dies. But instead of deep freeze, hoe about a passive? Listen to this idea, Icybreaker: passive: your icy spells now deal 7 more Dmg and if a fire spell is landed befor the duration of the slow in finished, it deals 15 and cancels the effect. A small Dmg reduction would be acceptable. Nothing should stand a chance 1v1 vs a geo, except ninja, although 2v1, geos should lose. That's y there are awsome things called partys. A healer, and geo along with a Sammy should be an invincible party. But, DK, and a healer Could give a great fight just because of the survivability of DK's. DK's are supposed to be able to survive a 2v1 they are tank of goodness sakes. They are just like holy pallys in wow. Insanely hard to kill, no way to change that, just find a counter and use it against them. Just a coupl of ideas.