Remove deep freeze

[Dielan9999]

I think Caster's being "deadly right out of the GY" is fine. We have the lowest HP for a reason. Warriors aren't meant to do as much damage as rouges, so rouges probably need a buff to take the casters on. I don't think fireball SHOULDN'T go through armor, becuase before when it didn't a caster, who is supposed to do the highest damage in the game, can't kill a Warrior spec. That didn't make sense. If it were like that in LOTR Gandalf would have died countless times.

Deepfreeze might need a nerf sure, but maybe all non-casters (within reason) just need a buff.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

@xexorian this is a thread about opinions on Geomancers skills, make a new thread if you wish to whine about dreadknights.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

I disagree entirely.

They get a long cooldown insta-half health damage ability called Harmtouch. Half of DK's abilities have too high a range and should require melee distance. I also believe Beguilers, being a half-melee-half-caster should have the highest caster health, not the 2nd lowest HP in the entire heroes build. Also, I think they need chainmail, and that Drainsoul, and decay, need to cost more mana. With armor's diminishing returns and a DK properly stocked on Insta-Health 2 potions 3 Specced/mastered classes weren't able to take a single DK down in over a 1 minute time period, also, he was able to simply sink down the to bottom of an ocean after being thoroughly destroyed by 3 specced/mastered people (zoomsz, victim130, and myself) completely used all of our mana to no avail, as he popped potion after potion being thwarted and slung side to side in a tight narrow street for nearly a minute straight.

I literally have only piggify, and 3-4 fireballs, maybe a couple dispells, and I'm out. That's 60-80 hp, he's got like 110-130 HP, heals 30-40 hp from souldraining me, and deals half my 86 hp during those 3-4 soul drains, then harmtouch and 1 or 2 melee swings and I'm a goner. That's literally like a 20-30 second fight, or he can just crush my skull in while piggified in melee as I unload everything. Honestly though, my melee does what, maybe 5 damage ontop of my 60-80 fireball damage, assuming all 3-4 land?

I will address this myself since I know it's me you are referencing to.

-First off, I used a swiftness potion to get away, and you couldn't hit me in the water due to that.
-Secondly, because of the fact I knew I was fucked and did not use any skills so I could use recall, I could not have drainsoul'd 40 hp off any of you because it has a longer cd and only replenishes 5 hp now.
-I did use a health potion, but only so I could stay alive for a bit longer
-I used harmtouch on diffuse immediately, which was a waste of a skill considering I was up against 3 warriors and a beguiler
-I already had becomedeath on from before, so swimming to the bottom of an ocean is just an escape tactic, which, may I add is easily combat-able if you had just hit me with fireball, which you did not, even while I was piggified
-You piggified me, and the pig went faster and farther away from you guys in the water.
-Endurance was on.
-It wasn't a minute, maybe 30 seconds at the most where I was just trying to tank as many hits and get away ASAP
-When I recalled, I was at .5 hearts, victim's bleed actually would've killed me if there was maybe 2 more ticks of poison

I'm sorry but that's just bullshit. Either they need about 30% lower health and higher cooldowns and way more mana cost (since they melee hard too) or every class needs a buff to keep up with DK's. That and they need to nerf alchemy pots. JFC. I understand that he's got super high health, mitigation, and has higher DPS per mana than my class, and better melee, and better skills.

potions were nerfed, DK nerf was well deserved, and I have to agree with @HollowSith I can no longer take on people and just drainsoul drainsoul drainsoul, 1v1s are actually a challenge, and fighting mastered Geos are a bit of a nightmare for me. I don't know if you've fought any other Dreadknights, but I thought zoomsz was a dreadknight at that time(?). You've fought me once since this nerf, and that's all I know. You can't make the above assumptions while not taking other factors into account. If you get NEAR a dreadknight, chances are, you will lose. On the other hand, keep your distance, and I won't be able to getcha, cuz the range on drainsoul was taken down a few notches.

Beguiler's true skill lie in "Crowd Control Captain" supposedly, but I don't see it unless piggify gets buffed again, we should be able to completely lock down ONE person nearly indefinately. Be able to dispel manafreeze, and purge damage over time spells from our allies, and still have some form of nice offense. I feel strongly on this which is why I suggested the Plaguebomb / Grenade like skill, my greatest hope is that it does enough damage and doesn't cost much mana to nerf our damage-per-mana output.

Piggify in my opinion is fine as is, except for when it sends you to void. Which I hope is fixed or will be fixed soon enough. manafreeze I've never used in combat because last I check it lasts for like 2 seconds, unless they changed it, then I may use it.

My main complaint is twofold, dealing with both my class, and deathknights in general, as I believe a smith/deathknight combo is too Overpowered, combined with alchemy potions that are seriously overpowered.

Please explain why DK + smith = Overpowered. I don't see your reasoning and it makes me want to believe you are singling me out considering I am a master DK and smith, and have repeatedly attacked your town since I find some of them to be easy kills (If you want me to tell you why I say that, PM me, I don't want to get too offtopic, but I want to help your group out if you'll allow it). There is no reason to believe being a smith gives in advantage in PvP, and for an alchemist it's the same because EVEN YOU CAN BUY POTIONS.

Harm II splash potions do about 8 hearts to just about anyone hit by it. If you can afford them, using your combos with them will kill even greek's op ass in about 2.3 seconds. Part of why I believe Alchemy's potions should be maybe something half as useful as it is right now. IE: Insta Health II might restore 6 hearts or so of HP or full HP, but they need a significant cooldown. I know this hurts unarmored people more than armored, but armored targets with high HP are just ridiculous. Deathknights should have about 90 HP if they're going to have life stealing, and insta-attacks on 15 min cooldowns that just kill anyone. Pretty stupid. Their DPS output is too high with their effective mitigation/tanking.

I thought harming II was taken out since it was so overpowered...

You need to check the updates because hp potions have a 120 second cooldown, and so does every other potion

I think some of you people need a reminder that fighting me, I'm not going down without a fight. I've been in this show for a long time now, and have been through almost any situation you can think of in terms of PvP. You fight me, and scream "OP OP DREADKNIGHTS ARE OP", but don't realize you just fought someone who knows what they are doing, and in most cases, the guys I fight just seem to fail (not directed to you xexo). Sometimes a good fight is put up, and I end up at 1 heart by the time the battle is over, and still I see "DUDE DREADKNIGHTS ARE SO OP IT'S STUPID!"

Just my opinion. Considering you are one of the only people I've seen whine about the Dreadknights being OP since the new patch, I disagree with most of your claims completely due to the fact your facts are wrong, and you don't have any evidence to support said claims.

 

[gooscar]

DKs have been balanced well IMO.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

edit:

either 30% lower hp, AND OR higher mana cost spells, AND OR longer cooldowns.** (clarification)

my melee swings, (about 12 of them) do a total of 5 damage* (in the given situation above)

I also believe Harmtouch AND Empathy are ridiculously OP. Empathy is literally an I-WIN button.

Where's my 15 minute 40 damage instant-cast-mid-to-long-range cooldown? Do I get cookies and milk with that? Perhaps diamond armor and 130 HP?

I have to add since I didn't see this at first.

Mid-to-long range? You mean insanely short range. No, you don't get cookies and milk because you are just blindly bashing a class that has been fixed. 123 hp, Diamond Helm and Diamond Boots. Empathy does a max of 40 damage, and costs 40 mana, Half the time I fight people I don't have NEARLY enough mana to use it, and 25% of that 50% I am not within range to use it, because most of the casters I've fought are smart enough to not fight me head on. ignorant.

 

[Graink]

I disagree entirely.

As do I. I, being a fully speced dreadknight, kind of have the duty of destroying a weak low leveled Beguiler. If you truely believe you deserve to kill a mastered class without even knowing what your lvl 55 skill does, you truely do not deserve to talk about any other class. Dreadknights have received a massive nerf, where our drainsoul attack is maybe 1 - 2 blocks out of our swinging range. On top of the 10sec cd it now has, we can no longer rely on any skills. Magic goes through armor if you haven't been playing lately, therefore we take full dmg you send at us (Regardless of our OP armor). If you can't kill someone stronger than you (by means of levels) then that makes total sense. If you can kill him, it's either luck, or skill (or piggify exploits). You have to remember, you can use health potions too. Or them running potions if he's too fast for ya, and even manapotions when they're ready. If one guy is able to kill a few it doesn't always mean he's OP. It can mean he got lucky, he knows what he's doing, or he's just better than you.

I don't mean to put down your whole dreams of PVP, but if you actually take a look at beguilers skills, they're buff skills. Safe-fall-others? Might? Dispell? Purge? All of your skills are for team fights. Where you can fight 3 - 4 people, take off their buffs, protect your party from fall dmg and give them all str. Try using reflect? You complain so much about not being able to do much dmg, but 50% of my drain souls comming back at me would be terrible! You would take 5 dmg, and I'd only gain 5. That right there is a big swing every time I hit you. If you've ever fought a rogue, their kick will destroy you! SonicBoom is insanly OP if you can do that to a whole team + 12 dmg.

I find way too many people bitch and complain about classes when they don't even know how to play their own. Stick to a group if you're going to play that class, don't try to solo a dreadknight (Warrior class, built around 1 v 1 pvp) or you will surely die.



As for deep freeze :3 I think all root skills should be removed and turned into more of a slow. Like the slowness when using recall. The player can still be hit a lot during the slow, and those combos can pretty much 1 hit anyone if you're not up against potions.

 

[gooscar]

@Multitalented just said DKs could do 80ish damage in 3 seconds. wut.

 

[Graink]

@Multitalented just said DKs could do 80ish damage in 3 seconds. wut.

To one player, then they're screwed...
Drainsoul is 10 sec cd - 10 dmg
HarmTouch 15min cd - 35 dmg
Decay - 10 sec cd - 20 sum dmg over many slow seconds.
Empathy (only works if you have 40 mana left + less than half hp) idk the cd - max 40 dmg.
That's 80 dmg in about 3 seconds if you can land them all (You'll need to be within 6- 7 blocks atleast to land everything) then during the fight decay will slowly take them down. Magic goes through us, we can have the same counter done to us. and caster combo can bring us down super fast, when they can root us it just makes it worse.

 

[Kainzo]

@Multitalented just said DKs could do 80ish damage in 3 seconds. wut.

Not with a global cooldown and if harmtouch is up and they're low hp. All this is situational.

 

[gooscar]

Not with a global cooldown and if harmtouch is up and they're low hp. All this is situational.

Oh okay, I misread it
Cheers.

 

[Kainzo]

We're going to work on tweaking drainsoul for DK ... SoulLeech will probably be the preferred skill for draining life

 

[GreekCrackShot]

We're going to work on tweaking drainsoul for DK ... SoulLeech will probably be the preferred skill for draining life

In what way? more of a nerf? or a buff? I mean it is a level 50 skill, and I don't find it to be a very useful skill now. More of a level 30 skill

 

[Kainzo]

In what way? more of a nerf? or a buff? I mean it is a level 50 skill, and I don't find it to be a very useful skill now. More of a level 30 skill

lol a direct damage drain not being useful.

 

[Dielan9999]

As do I. I, being a fully speced dreadknight, kind of have the duty of destroying a weak low leveled Beguiler. If you truely believe you deserve to kill a mastered class without even knowing what your lvl 55 skill does.

Stopped reading at about there. That's totally ignorant. You don't need to spec your class to make criticizms about another. At least Greek made a rebuttal to all of Xexo's points. I'm not just saying this because I'm Xexo's friend, but I'm just a mid leveled Necro and I can tell what things need nerfing and buffing. Just because I haven't mastered Necro doesn't make my opinions invalid and neither does it to Xexo's.

I'm not entirely sure if @xexorian 's opinions are based on the LATEST patch updates like the potion cooldowns and the DK nerf, but things were pretty bad before. It wasn't impossible to kills a DK, but it was more difficult than it should have been. Also my issue with master smiths was that they can dismantle the diamond armors and weapons of their victims to repair their armor before the victims can return from the graveyard, which before fireball started ignoring armor was terribly OP. Now that fireball ignores that, it doesn't bother me. However if I was a rouge this map, I would still be upset about that.


EDIT: ^^This is on topic because I don't think Deepfreeze is that broken. Caster's are pretty balanced at the moment besides the Beguiler being a little underpowered. Deepfreeze not rooting is probably better than it is now, but it's hardly something to complain about. Other classes should just ask for a buff, not to nerf the others. I think plague bomb needs to finish getting in (wasn't last time i was online) and maybe one or two new beguiler skills need to come in, then just leave casters alone. Just buff everything else!

 

[Graink]

Stopped reading at about there. That's totally ignorant. You don't need to spec your class to make criticizms about another. At least Greek made a rebuttal to all of Xexo's points. I'm not just saying this because I'm Xexo's friend, but I'm just a mid leveled Necro and I can tell what things need nerfing and buffing.

Were you trying to be funny? Or did you not notice yourself? How would you know if I didn't dispute anything Xexo wrote if you didn't care to read what was actually there? Ignorance at it's best... Not really much else I can say about that, you've done it all yourself.

 

[Dielan9999]

Were you trying to be funny? Or did you not notice yourself? How would you know if I didn't dispute anything Xexo wrote if you didn't care to read what was actually there? Ignorance at it's best... Not really much else I can say about that, you've done it all yourself.

Actually I did read your post, I was just saying that for effect. I didn't think you were going to read my post anyway. You shouldn't just make assumptions like that. You're just being an elitist.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

@Dielan9999 I do agree with Graink on some parts of that, because as he states:

I find way too many people bitch and complain about classes when they don't even know how to play their own.

This. This a million times. I went Warrior because as a Rogue/Ninja I tried to tank too often and died too much. I went Dreadknight because I know how to play a tank, and how to use my skills wisely and make the decisions necessary to kill people as strategically as possible.

I see bards come up and try to 1v1 a dreadknight. And of course, they lose. Immediately crying in offtopic "DUDE DREADKNIGHT IS SO OP!".... And I am tempted to respond with (but usually don't), 'You do realize you're playing the BUFF class, not the tank class. Stop trying to take on an entire town and find a group to get with, otherwise, you might as well respec.'

I don't know the skills of Beguiler, but from what I've seen fighting xexo, he just piggifies from short range, allowing me to use my high damage skills on him. Next thing he knows, he's running for his life waiting for piggify cooldown, while I'm guzzling down a swiftness potion.

 

[Diffuse]

I find way too many people bitch and complain about classes when they don't even know how to play their own.

This is an extremely dumb statement imo. Every spec is exceedingly simple when it comes to 1v1 or even group situations (except healing which I hear is a bitch). Dreadknights just mash drainsoul and harmtouch, dragoons mash impale and disarm and so on. Just so you know, all you master dreadknights fight the exact same way, the only difference being melee hits. Knowledge of a spec (especially one as simple as DK) really doesn't matter a whole lot as most of them require little to no thought or learning. Just thought I'd say that.

Dreadknights are still far too tanky for the damage they put out, but that is seriously not the point of this thread. This thread is about casters, specifically geomancers. Dreadknights are still OP and it really says something that a naked geomancer can still deal with them easily. No Dielan, casters are not balanced at the moment. They are shredding through warriors and rogues without even having to try.

 

[what777]

Anyways...
DeepFreeze ROOTS.
It should slow I think?

 

[Dielan9999]

@Dielan9999 I do agree with Graink on some parts of that, because as he states:


This. This a million times. I went Warrior because as a Rogue/Ninja I tried to tank too often and died too much. I went Dreadknight because I know how to play a tank, and how to use my skills wisely and make the decisions necessary to kill people as strategically as possible.

I see bards come up and try to 1v1 a dreadknight. And of course, they lose. Immediately crying in offtopic "DUDE DREADKNIGHT IS SO OP!".... And I am tempted to respond with (but usually don't), 'You do realize you're playing the BUFF class, not the tank class. Stop trying to take on an entire town and find a group to get with, otherwise, you might as well respec.'

I don't know the skills of Beguiler, but from what I've seen fighting xexo, he just piggifies from short range, allowing me to use my high damage skills on him. Next thing he knows, he's running for his life waiting for piggify cooldown, while I'm guzzling down a swiftness potion.

I see what you mean, however I'm not a fan of the beguiler example. Kainzo once said DK's were intended to be 75% warrior and 25% necro. I think Beguiler should be 75% caster, and 25% Bard. This is why they just got a new attacking skill, Plague Bomb.

That Bard example, that was a good example