Recipe Control

[AlexDaParrot]

Mason:
Bookshelves

Arrows to somebody?

Farmers:
Cookies

 

[whitemagehealu]

Ew all this craft restriction is seriously bumming me out... to the I don't want to play...

 

[Diffuse]

No profession restrictions will at all compare to what smiths seem to be getting. This will not increase player interaction btw, it just forces lone wolf players to go smith. Everyone else would have a smith in their town regardless of restrictions. The only player interaction it will cause is that you have to deal with towns members more which should already be happening. If this seriously goes through I see no reason to be anything but smith as I want to go more lone wolf and it would mean either being smith or paying ridiculously high prices for restricted items.

Also lone wolf doesn't mean I sit alone all the time doing nothing with other players. It really is more of just it being me vs everyone else which has a certain allure that some people enjoy.

 

[AlexDaParrot]

People retain the same needs and wants, but need to utilize more economical means to achieve those same wants and needs. Also, it is inherently useful to limit the usage of more "Basic" materials such as fences and pressure plates in order to counter balance this. The key effect that profession restrictions create is that items that are not raw goods are worth something. If you are unable to create a fence post, suddenly wood may not be the single most valuable item. If people are allowed to buy wood as a catch-all for any wood related goods, the price of all those goods are completely dependent on the price of wood. However, it actually increases the price of an item made of wood, but is restricted to a certain class, if it is only craftable by a certain subset of players.

Honestly, I see the creation of player economics that are not driven by raw goods, but finished products and items as a step in the positive direction. Instead of cutting down 100 trees and selling the raw materials, people are rewarded for crafting those trees into something greater.

 

[Kainzo]

Obviously, this isnt 100% set in stone - but we have recipe control now and that opens doors for more RP'ing.

Crafter
-diamond_pick
-chest

Farmer
-Cake
-Bread

Miner
-DiamondBlock
-GoldBlock
-IronBlock
(may be out of place)

Engineer
-pistons
-repeaters

Mason
-irondoor
-nether_fence

Smith
-Diamond weps/armor
-Gold weps/armor

Alchemist
-cauldron
-brewing_stand

Woodsmen (should this even exist?)
(can have woodcutting (double chance for wood)
-bed

 

[Dazureus]

I kind of think Woodsmen are unnecessary and I have doubts about Miners... But I like what you did with Alchemists and Masons.

 

[Diffuse]

With that list smiths are still by far the best profession to be except maybe enchanter. I seriously hope this doesn't happen as it doesn't affect people with organized towns, but it does hurt people without them. As far as the economy goes this will just cause people in organized towns to prosper while forcing people without them to suffer higher prices for basic items. Its going to end up giving players two options: Join a town/group or suffer for not joining.

Also if this does happen please don't do woodsmen. Its unnecessary and restricting beds is not going to end well.

 

[Dazureus]

With that list smiths are still by far the best profession to be except maybe enchanter. I seriously hope this doesn't happen as it doesn't affect people with organized towns, but it does hurt people without them. As far as the economy goes this will just cause people in organized towns to prosper while forcing people without them to suffer higher prices for basic items. Its going to end up giving players two options: Join a town/group or suffer for not joining.

Also if this does happen please don't do woodsmen. Its unnecessary and restricting beds is not going to end well.

Maybe diamond gear won't be considered basic items in Herocraft. Is that such a bad thing?

Also, can we craft enchantment tables while the Enchanters are absent? I'd love to use them for decoration, even if they're useless.

 

[Diffuse]

They would be basic items to people with smith friends and rare items to people without a personal smith.

 

[ChunkyM0nk3y]

No to fences, Yes to Diamond restrictions and bricks etc.
But I would let others still make pressure plates and Basic Food.

 

[wolfgang784]

Diffuse, how does this make smith the best to go? It only does if you plan to play solely as a warrior. I plan to be a healer and a ranger, so smith is completely useless to me. If you are a caster, smith is still completely useless. Warrior is the only class that needs smith mostly and it WILL increase player interaction. If you really want to be a lone wolf so much be a rogue and a farmer so you can farm your own leather. There is no over all more important than the others crafter class. Every class has a profession that will be the most useful to them, so please stop complaining solely for warriors and be another class if you really don't want to talk to anyone else while you play multiplayer.

Anyway, everything up there looks pretty good. I noticed someone said fences get extreme, but it makes sense for a mason to be the one to be making stuff like that, and maybe wooden stairs as well. As I said before, I love this whole idea of restricting the crafting of certain things to certain professions due to the change it will make to player interaction.

If anyone needs some more convincing on this, scroll back up and read Alexdaparrot's post above Kainzo's on page two.

 

[AlexDaParrot]

Additionally, crafting XP could be scaled up accordingly for certain items as it wouldn't be one person buying a lot of wood and grinding out fence posts, but a single class making money and getting XP while doing it. As Wolf said, we are playing a multiplayer server, thus while you it possible to play as a lone wolf, the lone wolf style of gameplay should not be defended in order to limit the amount of interactions a community has simply because people don't want to interact. A community is social and fluid, the more barriers that are erected between classes, the more interaction and socialization that will happen among the MAJORITY of the community.

Also, this is not some hypothetical idea. On the first server I played, things such as gates, doors, and lifts were all free of charge due to a wide array of donors being able to use them. However, for a bit of wiring and a few gate signs I have been paid in excess of 100 C on this server. Limiting the things a player can do INCREASES [Usually from 0 or near 0] prices and CREATES new markets, which is good. I expect the same thing to happen on this server if things such as fences are limited. If you want a fence, why not buy it from someone who's profession it is to make fences, thus generating both a player interaction AND a new market for fences that previously did not exist due to it being widely available. It is a basic part of economics, markets must not include everyone in them in order to be largely successful.

While I love the idea of iron doors being Mason only, neather fences seem like a cheap way of saying fences are Mason only, but in actuality netherrack has very limited uses outside of making fences. Thus, a market for the raw good was never there in the first place [To much degree, at least] and therefore the fences would somewhat create a market, but have a much lessened effect on the massive transfer of raw goods around the server. Basic, decorative items are what need to be limited. I can build a house out of plywood, but building furniture, fencework, a stove, putting in power, all that decorative and useful jazz I would usually need to part out to someone else in order to get done. The same logic applies here, allow people to build their houses, but any finer details will need to be purchased from people around the server. I would also advocate the elimination of Chest shops in this context, but due to the merchant class much of that is already being done. I personally HATE chest shops because of the inherent laziness that they embody in the community and the lack of any true market aside from sign clicking. If I want to buy 50 gold, do I feel like I am part of a larger community when I buy it from a chest shop in a random town, or if I buy it directly from a miner who just worked for 2 hours, had a short story to share with me, and not has been rewarded for his work by me, personally.

I feel like this issue really hits an important note on my outlook for the server. If everyone is going to be crafter now, items need to be exclusionary in order for any market to function to the current degree even. Instead of buying service industry items that are currently the only non-resource functions that are traded, such as architecture, redstone work, and of course masonry sign abilities, resources should be funneled down so that they are exclusionary and thus force people to interact in order to make the best of their server experience. I advocate people working together, I advocate people who want to be lone wolves, but I also see that there should be inherent disadvantage and advantage to each playstyle. If a person plays a community style game, then he should have access to resources easier and also be limited by the thought of the other players, but the opposite should also be true for anyone who wants to play a lone wolf style. Not everything should be self-obtainable, that increases hoarding and stagnates the server economy as large quantities of raw goods that could be turned into anything are sold instead of finished products that should have a higher value due to more work being done, but actually do not because of the disadvantages of not having a good that can be freely transmuted from a raw form to any item that the person wishes.

Tl;dr, I do not believe in TL;DR statements.

 

[wolfgang784]

The below list is NOT my own work. Some of it is, as you will be able to tell if you have read the previous lists in this thread, but I added my own ideas as well. Alex's post expresses my opinion/feelings on this topic better than I managed in my posts, and I would love to see many crafting restrictions to increase the market/economy on the server. What do people currently use coins for? Noble plots? Taxes? Occasional building supplies or some redstone in spawn? This would give coins a use other than being a way to get rings and a region.

Again, these are not all my ideas, it is a compilation of all ideas in the thread so far and more added by myself into the professions that I think would make the most sense to have them. There is a lot of stuff that I did not add because some people will find this extreme and not see why restricting items is a good thing. Of course I do not expect it to all go in, but I believe the list to be a good basic set of ideas for Kainzo to look at when/if he starts restricting items.

Spoiler

All Crafter Classes:
Diamond Pick
Chest

Engineer:
Piston
Repeaters
Powered Rails
Pressure Plates
Pressure Plate Railways
Dispenser
Lever
Button

Smith:
Diamond armor
Golden Armor
Diamond and Gold tools (diamond pick excepted)
Diamond and Gold Weapons
Iron Door (seems more like a smiths thing than a mason, but maybe both?)
Clock (as well as miner)
Compass

Mason:
Bricks
Iron Bars
Fence Posts
Bookshelves
Nether Fence
Iron Door (seems more like a smiths thing than a mason, but maybe both?)
Wooden Stairs (cobble stairs open to all like normal?)
Brick Stairs
Nether Brick Stairs

Miner:
Diamond Blocks
Gold Blocks
Iron Blocks
Clock (as well as smith)

Farmer:
Cake
Throwing Eggs
Diamond Hoe
Bread

Enchanter:
Enchanting Table

Alchemist:
Cauldron
Brewing Stand
Possibly an alchemy recipe to create all the new records? There are a lot, and no legit way to get them.
Glass Vial

I did not include basic things like beds, buckets, mine carts, wooden doors, signs, or boats because those are basic and I think most people would disagree with them being on the list. Others like paintings and juke boxes there is no current profession for, and so were not added. I think it would be good to add everything, but I refrained from adding them anyway.

 

[whitemagehealu]

This amount of craft restriction is turning the server into a facebook game. In facebook games you have to ask your friends constantly for everything.

"You need 5 rocks to complete this quest! Ask friends for help?"

Now in Minecraft terms: "You need an iron door? Ask a Mason!" "You need a button to open that iron door? Ask an Engineer!" "Oh no! You want to move that door someplace else? Well you better call your party of instantly ready Masons and Engineers!"

Tedious, tedious, tedious...

 

[AlexDaParrot]

Yet, you don't need any of these items to complete quests, nor to live on a day to day level. Aside from armor and weapons, which are almost universally understood as something a smith makes and therefore have a completely logical reasoning for being a smith only creation, many of these items are simply decoration. The only one on Wolf's list I would disagree with are the blocks [Gold, diamond, iron blocks] because they are used largely for storage and being forced to have a minor handle your materials simply for storage is a bit risky.

Also, I would consider this as a way to reduce the tedious ways of leveling. Instead of using crafting XP to make a thousand useless items that will just be stored, many of these items will actually be able to be sold on the market. The ability to sell a crafted item for a decent price is something that Herocraft largely lacks.

 

[wolfgang784]

They don't need to place everything, just to craft it. You would still place iron doors, buttons, stairs, iron bars, and so on, at least with my understanding, but you could not craft them. You need to buy everything from others, and trade them what you can create. You need an iron door, and they need some wooden steps. Trade them the steps they need and they give you the door. Its about giving all items a price and increasing player interaction.

 

[Dazureus]

Here's another Profession idea: Tinker
Crafts Compass
Crafts Clock
Crafts Noteblock
Crafts Jukebox
Converts yellow and green Records into other new Records.

I think woodwork, stonework, paintings and beds should all be usable by anybody. But things that would be complicated on the inside like clocks and musical equipment would be a good profession as well.

 

[Popeyepoop1]

Why not have Smiths be able to craft Iron armor only as well?

 

[RedEchoRanger]

dude... material specific items should be lvl scaled like... lvl 1 = wood lvl 5 = stone ... all the way to 50 for diamond.

and then everybody could use any tool/weapon they want (damage values with each could be changed to zero for pvp right?)

 

[GraRona]

I seriously can't believe smiths are the only ones who will be able to create diamond weapons. Sometimes, I think there is too much restricting on this server and not enough introduction of new material. Making diamond weapons smith exclusive will make smiths either

1. The richest class in the game. People will be flocking to smiths with coin in hand to get diamond tools (which are a necessity compared to things like cake, stone bricks, etc. which are not definitely not required unless you're someone whose eyes burn at the sight of ugly things and you need these blocks to pretty up your home).

2. The most popular profession. Already, smith is the most popular profession by far. It goes hand in hand with most combat classes (especially the warrior classes) because they are able to repair broken armor and weapons. Making the crafting of diamond tools smith exclusive will throw the amount of players choosing each profession off balance. Think about it, almost all the pvpers on this server are planning to go smith because of it's ability to make pvping cheaper by repairing/decrafting armor/tools instead of crafting new tools. If we give smiths diamond tools, it will sway the decision of those who are debating between smith and another profession to choose smith.