Reason why I think Herocraft is win [RANT WARNING]

[Trizze]

I am a tier 2 donor which gives me a 50 soul discount on lwcs. It's not much compared to tier 3 and 4 players who gets free lwcs at the start of the map.

Under my 28 levels of crafter and 13 levels of lost soul I've gotten 246 souls. Like I said, I need 450 souls for an lwc. Think about how much I need to play in order to get to 450 souls and then compare that to tier 3+ who gets a free lwc at the start of the map. This secures their items from day one unlike me or any non-donors who has to play constantly for a week to get that amount of souls. It was fine in the previous maps since you could actually sell the things you've mined (gold), but since it was replaced with soulshards it takes too long to get the money.

I'm writing this thread because I lost all my stuff and heard people talking about how Herocraft is and isn't pay to win.

Before any of you guys tell me to hide my chest better I'll just explain how my base works. I have a base inside of a mountain, it has no visible entrance, the mountain is not lit up at all, I've made the terrain natural so that you can't jump up without breaking a single block. Inside of my base I have three chests.

One chest is in the open with a sign above it saying: "Gems and Valueables", I put 1-3 diamonds, some lapis and gold in there everytime I go to bed, if someone would raid me they would go "Lol he has his chest in the open, kthxbye" and leave my base after looting it.

My second chest is hidden under the wall across the entrance, I put around 1/3 of my stuff in there. So that if someone thinks it's suspicious that I have an open chest they'll find that one and loot it and go "kthxbye".

My third chest is located four blocks under the floor and is very randomly placed. I always replace the floor with stone blocks even under the floor when I open it.

If I was one donor tier higher I wouldn't have to do everything I just mentioned. But apparently someone thought of all these things and dug up all my chests. (Must've been a clever person...)

TL;DR Anway, enough of me ranting. I think free lwcs are pay to win and the current way of getting money isn't efficient enough.

What do you think?

 

[clwusmc]

Maybe allowing everyone one free LWC would make this a bit more fair. At least give people a chance to secure some of their stuff.

 

[Trizze]

@clwusmc No, that's a bad idea imo. That would make the server very boring since you can't get any items from raids which would make people less willing to pvp.
I think the drop rates of soulshards should be changed. Or maybe allow us to sell gold to DHX.

 

[malikdanab]

I think it's more "X-Ray Abuse" than Donor OP.

 

[Trizze]

Edited.

 

[Trizze]

I think it's more "X-Ray Abuse" than Donor OP.

Who are you accusing of using x-ray?

 

[werwew19]

As a decently high tier donor I have to agree with this completely. If you are brand new to the server you aren't going to have a good time especially when there aren't really towns yet. I for one have like 3-4 free lwc's while a ton of newer players aren't really sure whats going on and they get raided a minute later. Unless you are social and you can find a veteran player with private regions and LWC's you are going to have a bad time right now. However the pay to win almost completely demolishes when towns come into play.

 

[Trizze]

why would you make gold chest plates?

Ok last time I answer your off-topic messages... Crafting a gold chestpiece gave you 120 exp. Now please stick to the subject or go somewhere else.

 

[Barnubus]

I don't think I've ever thought of the effects free LWC's have on the very start of a map, but I'd have to agree. I have quite a few free LWCs, I am even able to keep my random junky items safe. If anyone raids my chests, they get nothing but cobblestone.
New players have no way to protect themselves.

While I see it's a problem, a solution would be hard. Taking away free LWC's from supporters might cause quite a bit of backlash, but giving everyone a free LWC may cause raiding to be worthless.
Perhaps the first LWC can cost less then the rest? I dunno, like I said, a solution is hard to find.

 

[Trizze]

I don't think I've ever thought of the effects free LWC's have on the very start of a map, but I'd have to agree. I have quite a few free LWCs, I am even able to keep my random junky items safe. If anyone raids my chests, they get nothing but cobblestone.
New players have no way to protect themselves.

While I see it's a problem, a solution would be hard. Taking away free LWC's from supporters might cause quite a bit of backlash, but giving everyone a free LWC may cause raiding to be worthless.
Perhaps the first LWC can cost less then the rest? I dunno, like I said, a solution is hard to find.

Yeah either the first lwc being cheaper or some faster way of getting money in the start of the map instead of stacking up on useless diamonds and gold ingots (since you can't use anything before you master crafter)

 

[malikdanab]

Who are you accusing of using x-ray?

When all of your hidden chests are found, it's pretty safe to say that people used X-Ray to find them.

 

[Trizze]

When all of your hidden chests are found, it's pretty safe to say that people used X-Ray to find them.

Oh okay, well it's not fair accusing the person of using x-ray because we have no proof, they might've just been lucky or clever. :/

 

[richfish57]

On one hand it's only really true for the start of the map, and with no towns. If there is a town, you can join one and get that protection. But that was with gold as an economy, it was reasonable to pay for LWCs then yourself.

Unfortunately, money is far harder to come by now than it was before. Souls leave you with far less money than gold did. This might be intentional, but it means things like LWCs and town's need to be reconsidered. With a lot of playtime myself, I would have made around 3 time more using gold than I have done with souls.

While the very start is quite unfair if you have free LWCs, I think the main problem that 500s is a LOT. From what i've seen, if you have been reasonably lucky and not died/been killed /raided a lot, you can get around 200-300s by the time you are ready to spec...And you need to make it all without losing it, while you have nowhere safe to keep anything. Then you need to do that twice, before you can get a LWC.

I don't think a free one for everyone, or removing them from donor's is the right way to go. Instead I would consider two options, either make the first chest you buy is cheaper (free LWCs remove this benefit), or make it that a single chest LWC is cheaper (1/2 price making the most sense). That should make things a bit more reasonable for non-donors.

 

[AzenYumCha]

If you consider what people have chosen to out money into, by modifying what players have initially chosen to donate for is pretty much a false deal or, let's say a scam. Although, I do understand have these free LWC's have been a horrendously big advantage for those who don't donate the funds for beneficial perks. It's like a deal. If someone decides to put money for whatever reason, it should really have to stay that reason because if the deal was modified and the consumer does not appreciate that specific change, then clearly we have a dilemma.
Personally, the tier perks should've been thought out more, now if higher donor perks were to be needed, then I can guarantee not many of them would appreciate this change.

 

[ChunkyM0nk3y]

Well, first off I gotta complain about the title, just because people get a slight advantage by spending money, it doesn't mean that HC is p2w. Pay to win would mean that you could buy items or actual exp or something like that for real money, and I think the staff are doing quite a good job at keeping the balance when it comes to spending/donating real money to the server (which is necessary for all big servers, unfortunately).

But I do think that you have a point when it comes to the first few weeks of a map wipe, which is, even though it is not going to be the case very often/long, kind of annoying for new players.
I really like Barnubus' idea of making the first LWC cheaper, or maybe we could implement a system where you could have a small locker system in town where you could only deposit a few items (like 1-10 or so) for a cheaper price, temporarily. But that's just an idea.

 

[LightningCape]

I am a tier 2 donor which gives me a 50 soul discount on lwcs. It's not much compared to tier 3 and 4 players who gets free lwcs at the start of the map.

Under my 28 levels of crafter and 13 levels of lost soul I've gotten 246 souls. Like I said, I need 450 souls for an lwc. Think about how much I need to play in order to get to 450 souls and then compare that to tier 3+ who gets a free lwc at the start of the map. This secures their items from day one unlike me or any non-donors who has to play constantly for a week to get that amount of souls. It was fine in the previous maps since you could actually sell the things you've mined (gold), but since it was replaced with soulshards it takes too long to get the money.

I'm writing this thread because I lost all my stuff and heard people talking about how Herocraft is and isn't pay to win.

Before any of you guys tell me to hide my chest better I'll just explain how my base works. I have a base inside of a mountain, it has no visible entrance, the mountain is not lit up at all, I've made the terrain natural so that you can't jump up without breaking a single block. Inside of my base I have three chests.

One chest is in the open with a sign above it saying: "Gems and Valueables", I put 1-3 diamonds, some lapis and gold in there everytime I go to bed, if someone would raid me they would go "Lol he has his chest in the open, kthxbye" and leave my base after looting it.

My second chest is hidden under the wall across the entrance, I put around 1/3 of my stuff in there. So that if someone thinks it's suspicious that I have an open chest they'll find that one and loot it and go "kthxbye".

My third chest is located four blocks under the floor and is very randomly placed. I always replace the floor with stone blocks even under the floor when I open it.

If I was one donor tier higher I wouldn't have to do everything I just mentioned. But apparently someone thought of all these things and dug up all my chests. (Must've been a clever person...)

TL;DR Anway, enough of me ranting. I think free lwcs are pay to win and the current way of getting money isn't efficient enough.

What do you think?

While it's clear that donors have an advantage early map I would not be so quick to say the entire server is P2W (which it isn't). This is an issue of effort and accessibility not a game-breaking advantage that makes donors godly. Anyone has to ability to get a LWC without donating a cent. This is also the result of towns not being in.

Say towns were in first day of the map.

Bob (let's just call him bob) joins the server with nothing. After being whitelisted and reading up on the server mechanics and rules he'll probably join a group of people who have some sort of plan. Whether that be making a town our joining a larger group that will make a town. This large group of people will make a base, collect materials, and store them in non-locked chests. Will they lose some stuff to raiders? Yes. Is a singular lwc unreachable to them? No. They could compile their money from mining to get just 1 and store town requirements in it until they have enough to make a town. Here's where the town magic comes in. They now have a massive region to store an uncountable amount of chests that, if underground, are unraidable. During all this donors themselves are doing the same because they don't have an unlimited amount of free-bees.

My point is I feel the issue isn't the nature of free LWCs but the absence of towns which @gabizou (and maybe others) are working hard on.

 

[Trizze]

@LightningCape Yeah my title might not be that accurate but I still think there are pay to win elements on the server, if you have free lwcs you save 500s+ which you can spend on quick specializations, buying enchantments and so on. And since gold is no longer a profitable resource towns are much harder to get. But I do agree with you on most of your points.

 

[LightningCape]

towns are much harder to get.

We don't know this for sure yet.
edit-
I mean compared to last map prices may be/have changed. In any case getting the mats for the first town size with a group of people isn't that hard. imo

 

[Trizze]

We don't know this for sure yet.
edit-
I mean compared to last map prices may be/have changed. In any case getting the mats for the first town size with a group of people isn't that hard. imo

Getting the 10k souls that I've been told is needed for a town is harder on this map than on the previous ones though.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

When all of your hidden chests are found, it's pretty safe to say that people used X-Ray to find them.

Yeah, no. 2 days ago I was leveling my class next to a giant mountain. Due to my shitty laptop I was getting 10 fps and the mountain was taking its time to render. It was revealed to me an entire room etched into the mountain full of chests. Shitty laptops have their disadvantages, but this was an advantage, for sure.