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Suggestion Re-hauling Melee combat

zencow

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Location
Brisbane
I find it weird that Herocraft skills are balanced around the anomaly/glitch that occurs between Herocraft/Minecraft damage that allows melee to squeeze in more damage. Rather than make balances around the glitch, why not fight it head-on?

My proposal for today is to reduce all damage from left-clicking to 1 damage/disable it altogether and replace auto-attack damage with a Herocraft skill (that would vary accordingly between classes to give different weapon damage + /lvl).

Xx1 Attack: No mana/stamina cost, 1s CD. Inflict non-armor-ignoring damage to target within 1-block based on your currently equipped weapon and level.

E.g. for a Paladin at level 60 this would be 76(+40) damage. (this number mirrors the damage from 2-autoattacks that you are only expected to output under minecraft's 0.5 sec-invulnerability-between-hit-mechanic.)

What this solves:
- Allows skills to be more accurately balanced since it allows balancers to assess melee damage at a face value. e.g. Allows degen skills to be rebalanced so they play like they should; make pyromancers easier to balance.
- Eliminates left click spam to win that favors those with faster connection/using force fields.
- Makes melee specs require more brain cells to play.
- Allows balancers to be in more control of auto-attack damage to skill damage ratio and allows damage skills to be more impactful rather than as a means to bypass the minecraft invulnerability mechanic to spam more left-click.
(basically saying the same thing in different perspectives.)

Disadvantages:
- Re-coding of existing skills; to accommodate for skills that proc on left-click; paladin's shield passive etc.
- Heavy rebalancing of skills? Rebuttal: the numbers are mostly already there, its probably only after you realise how much more damage you do from auto-attacking vs warrior spec skills that things look atrocious.
- Left-click spam 2 fun 2 nerf?

Is it too late to make the such changes? Will it be worth it recoding it now for better balance in the long run?

ARGUE WITH ME!
 

ShadowRavynn

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Location
Florida
Cannot argue the facts. This is straight up what should happen imho and hubby's too.

Good luck with that though.
 

0xNaomi

Legacy Supporter 6
Retired Staff
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Yeah, whether this is the right way or not is questionable, but the combat definitely needs changes.
When a melee fighter can infinitely juggle you with you unable to fight back, there's a problem. (and they can)
 

zencow

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Location
Brisbane
However, I wonder how much this would effect server performance.


Yeah I am not familiar with now smoothly the Heroes plugin works and things would go. Compared to the spammy fireball, a skill replacing auto-attack that is weapon-based and armor-accounting like that has to check through multiple possible weapons being held by the player and check the target's armor/protection enchant (and durability effects!) is alot more processing intensive and could cause a ton of lag when it's spammed more than fireball.

But if it does work, another advantage may be that if Rangers keep the minecraft damage, they will be MUCH more viable in group pvp without having to worry about their shots not triggering/waiting ages to find the window to let the arrow loose.
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
This is a "hacky" at best fix and will not be implemented.

When we can cleanly fix combat we will. Other than that, we will have to find alternative plausible solutions.
The "issue" has become much less apparent with the DOT tick-between increases.
 

STDs4YouAnd4Me

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Fantastic idea if you ask me. One issue would be that once you get out of range from auto-attack damage it should continue when your back in range. It would be silly to waste a GCD every time you want to auto attack. Should be your opener once per target.
 
G

globjako2

Are you asking for there to be no Vanilla Melee anymore? Left clicks are out?
 

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
Are you asking for there to be no Vanilla Melee anymore? Left clicks are out?

No, he was suggesting to remove the damage from vanilla and add damage from a skill instead so that it can be limited.
Soo many problems and hurdles and fun that would be required for it to work.
 

Aekothera

TNT
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
We are losing sight of what a melee fighter is... If a warrior spec is in melee range of a mage spec imo the mage should have no chance of survival unless the warrior is noobish. If there is a warrior spec and a mage spec (or ranger for that matter) on a plains area and are 25 blocks apart, the warrior should have 0% chance of doing considerable damage on the mage before dying (unless it is a goon, that is somewhat their job). Mage's are OP at their own range, let warriors be OP at their so very limiting range. Argue if you will but this is how I think it should be, if you start making everyone have a chance against a melee fighter at close range, what do we get? Skyrim, where mages with no armor can point blank assualt a guy with a sword with fireballs and somehow live. Disgusting...
 
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