Suggestion Ranger Rebalancing? (Update 11/26)

[Aburido_burrito]

what is hamstring

 

[JenksLaw]

I'm going to play devil's advocate. :-P

Steal Armor > Arrows

It makes sense that an armor'd knight would dump on a ranger. That is why ranger's (archers) stand up on walls or behind a huge army irl (historically speaking). Armor ruled the school until bullets were invented because the armor stopped arrows. Then bullets took over because they went through armor etc. etc.

Bottom line: Ranger is absolutely a support class.

As for a mobility enhancing skill we have gills. Ever try fighting skeletons in the water? it sucks.


However... If a new mobility skill were going to get added then I'd like to vote for spiderman web swing / grapple

Don't know much about compooters or the interweb so I don't know if i'd be possible. I just know it would be legendary.


I think you want to be Legolas but the reality of the situation is that we're both just two dudes in Archer Group 5, half our squadron got killed this morning by armored knights. We both just found out the enemy poisoned all our beer and we'll have to survive by drinking our own piss for the next month. Oh, and we didn't have any sex with elves neither. The End. P.S. Not complaining. Its just more fun this way. Realistic like.


TLDR: Ranger is a support class.

 

[look_out]

Actually rangers had Armor piercing arrows tyvm

 

[XxTxAxZxX]

I believe that leap would be a great addition to ranger but I also have a great idea for armor pen, let the Poison damage stack per arrow hit. It still wouldn't do a ton but it would actually give rangers a bit of a chance

 

[XxTxAxZxX]

I believe this post needs more attention, Im not even a ranger anymore due to the fact of the many downfalls that Xerot stated

 

[Kwong050]

There should be an active skill that shoots 3 arrows and each one knocks enemies back

 

[Xerot]

Mobility just seems to be my main problem. I attempted to go back to being a ranger earlier, that... Didn't blow over well at all. My ice arrows generally got dispelled or jumped through their effects and got wrecked by their own slows. That and running through ice arrowing persuing enemies didn't work nearly as well as I hoped it would. It took me under an hour to spend another 500c to switch back to ninja.

Sidenote/addendum - Server *is* called heroes, having more heroic abilities would be a little more impressive.

 

[ThatAintFalco]

I support this

 

[Fjordsen]

I'm going to play devil's advocate. :-P

Steal Armor > Arrows

It makes sense that an armor'd knight would dump on a ranger. That is why ranger's (archers) stand up on walls or behind a huge army irl (historically speaking). Armor ruled the school until bullets were invented because the armor stopped arrows. Then bullets took over because they went through armor etc. etc.

Uhm, what? This is bullshit, no offense.

Battle of Agincourt, 1415.
800 british Knights/men at arms, 5000-6000 english/welsh longbowmen.
vs
20-30 000 french knights/men at arms, 2000 crossbowmen.

The british longbowmen using Bodkin arrows absolutely desimated the french nobles that day. A thin line of english men at arms (armored in steel plate armor) stood in a thin line in the centre. Thousands of longbowmen on each flank. The french knight cavalery charges at the archers, hundreds die in the first volleys, not even a single one reaches the english longbowmen, after taking heavy losses they retreat and take even more losses. Right after 8000 knights/men at arms (in full steel plate armor) marches on the english line going straight for King Henry. The first wave of 8000 takes thousands of losses to arrows. Their morale break at once when they reach the line of british, because the Longbowmen attacked them in the flank.
The second wave met a similar fate as the leftover troops from the first wave messed up their formation and made easy targets. England won the battle taking a few hundred losses, the french lost 11 Lords, 4 dukes and the Constable of france. They also took several thousand prisoners including many lords, dukes and knights.

The bowmen were the reason England defeated France. The same happened in Poitiers and Caen earlier in the hundred year war. The british won over the numerous french knights every battle because of their bowmen.

[DOUBLEPOST=1353584720,1353579753][/DOUBLEPOST] Barnubus - Deny history all you want, it's a fact that the longbow was superior to the Knight. The british armies consisted often by 7-8x more longbows then knights/men at arms. Simply because longbows were much more efficient and powerful. A bodkin arrow from a longbow could go trough any armor except milanese chestplates, which were extremely expensive and mostly used by rich lords/dukes.

 

[Barnubus]

It's a game.
But enjoy, anyways~

 

[Fjordsen]

It's a game.
But enjoy, anyways~

It's a game, but he tried using a historic argument for it so I did the same.

 

[Barnubus]

It's a game, but he tried using a historic argument for it so I did the same.

I saw that. Well done.

 

[jazza411]

It's a game.
But enjoy, anyways~

You once felt the same way

 

[TheMinrcrafter]

Really i think (if the dash thing that Xerot is talking about gets fixed) rangers have a pretty good chance to escape in 1v1 situations (if it isnt a goon) they just Ice arrow run ice arrow run and so on until they reach a far distance and can escape freely or as mentioned use a speed pot.

Leap does sound good it should be the same as Jump or maybe they could get a skill that lets them climb/scale walls like a spider cause rangers climb trees so it would make sense. Barrage should fire 8 arrows like a shotgun and each arrow that hits would do 100 dmg or would just fire arrows in each direction.

I admit rangers do get decimated by a lot of classes but if they are in a high spot and have decent aim they can destroy a lot of warrior classes (except goon rangers due lose to goons maybe if they had leap they would stand a chance).

 

[Barnubus]

You once felt the same way

._. I was always aware it was just a game. But this isn't the place for this, it's a suggestion thread. Lets stop the useless posts, thanks.

 

[victim130]

Yeah, you've likely heard me bitching plenty in O and elite recently. I've listened and I'll be putting down my thoughts here now. Let me start by at least stating how I feel ranger stands currently

• - Anything not wearing armor gets decimated by us, plain and simple. Ice arrow is hilariously powerful and no damage mitigation makes us fearsome.
• - Anything sporting full chain or more suddenly becomes a major threat. Ice arrow can delay them and allow us to get more hits off, but the damage mitigation is high enough to make our 180 damage arrows at max level deal... about 60, if my math's right. And this is a fully charged arrow, as well. God forbid you get anything with full iron, let alone anybody with diamond pieces. You're better off being called support by that point.
• - We rely on being sneaky and clever. Camo gives us some leverage, but we have no mobility whatsoever currently. Once we're caught, we rely on enchantments and ice arrow to repel enemies very briefly. Once we're beyond that, though, there's no escape.
• - We have a high sustained damage, but rangers have *no* burst damage whatsoever. The 2 damage skills we can activate using fatigue are kick, and barrage. And odds are, you don't see a ranger using barrage at all due to the high arrow cost and low damage dealt with each arrow.

That being said, we're clearly overpowered against the caster classes, but as far as specced healers (Save for disciple) and warriors, we're pretty pathetic. I understand there's a class triangle to be kept in mind, but throw that out the window for a second and think about the damage output of these other classes. Healers have very high sustainability in a 1v1, and when armored, they don't die easily by any means. Allow them any space, and you'll find yourself fighting them back at full health all of a sudden. Their damage output isn't stunning, but their sustainability allows them to shell out a large amount of damage over time.

Warriors, on the other hand, have high sustainability due to strong armor, and a significant number of skills that utilize fatigue that instantly deal damage, and they have a pretty good array, regardless of their specialization. Rogues will generally lose any fight if they aren't max level, but they can at least have a chance of success if they get the element of surprise (As they're meant to) and burn them fast enough before they can either jump or fight back. That's assuming you're a ninja, of course. Any other rogue will generally be wise enough to just sneak around and forget about engaging them entirely.

Casters, while they have little to no armor, have a very high burst damage potential, and can burn a class down before they recognize what's going on. Adding on AoE's and suppression skills make them fearsome in the hands of the skilled. Rangers make quick work of them simply due to ice arrow alone, which I feel, is wrong.

Now, with all of that said and done, I feel I can safely say that rangers have a good sustainable damage, but there are some major flaws in the class design that can be improved on and balanced in a way that allows rangers to be able to deal damage to armored targets and potentially fight back against warriors, while balancing out their blatant strength against caster classes. Here are some changes I feel that can be made to improve ranger as a class overall, while balancing them appropriately to where we're not death gods or anything.​

​

1. Less toggle skills, more active skills - I should explain this one in detail. Rangers have 5 damaging skills available, Kick, Barrage, and the 3 elemental arrows. Barrage deals little damage with a high cost of 6 fatigue and almost half a stack of arrows *per use*. I'm not sure of the damage, but it's nothing very special if the enemy is close enough to denote using it.
2. Mobility. All rogue specs save for ranger have some form of escape or mobility enhancing skill, we get pretty boned if we have to try to escape a bad situation.
3. Armor piercing - I can't stress this one enough, the damage mitigation from warrior armor is so immense that you'd be fortunate to kill one, even while using ice arrow incessantly.

Before I go on, here are the skills I'd love to see.

Hamstring - 6 Fatigue, active skill. Your next arrow, should it hit your target, is aimed at their legs, crippling them for 7 seconds. 15 second cooldown. The slow would slow as much as the current ice arrow slows.
Piercer - 8 fatigue, 20 mana, active skill. Your next arrow pierces through the opponents defenses, ignoring armor and dealing an additional 50-100 damage. 10 second cooldown. Only useable while sneaking.
Elemental arrows - Tweak them to have a chance to apply an effect while costing 1 mana per arrow. 20-50% would be reasonable. Ice arrow's slow is reduced by 50%, allowing the enemy some mobility when struck.
Barrage - Can apply elemental arrow effect that is currently active
SmokeArrow - 4 fatigue, 20 mana, active skill. Your next arrow bursts into a cloud of choking gas, silencing the target hit for 5 seconds. 30 second cooldown.
Leap - Similar to dragoon's jump, but with a lower height and higher cooldown. 4 fatigue, 20 second cooldown. Allows some mobility for rangers, letting them prowl atop trees and be nimble, like the real thing!

These are all ideas, so they wouldn't necessarily ALL have to pop up. But I made them with the intention of balance in mind. It causes Ranger suppression to be more skill-based, IE aiming the arrow and leading it into a target rather than spraying and praying, then running once you get a hit in. It also allows them to have some form of assassination ability with high damage output and armor piercing, so that getting the jump on a warrior actually puts you at some form of advantage.

I believe that covers everything. Bear in mind that I have only ranger balancing in mind, considering the other classes current abilities. This could change should a large class revamp occur in the future, but as things stand now, this is where I believe we can strike some sort of balance. I do like the thought of being able to fight back without relying on enchantments and armor all the time. They should grant an advantage, but not a necessary edge to play the class properly in PVP fashion.

Please let me know your thoughts and concerns, and I hope to see some kind of change in due time!

~Xerot

ADDENDUM - I've found with recent testing that now Ice arrow can be effectively 'shrugged off' by dash spamming on the enemy's part. Had an enemy catch up to me while using a punch II bow, missing about 5 of 30 shots, with ice arrow equipped. Can anyone look into this?

Personally, not the ideas I had in mind when I brought up Ranger as an issue last map, but I totally agree, but I think the slow should have a cd per person so that they can only be slowed every so often (10-20seconds?) Because even warriors can be kited long enough to get wrecked in some situations. Mind you, the arrows alone are weak as all hell, but the elemental ones do have a minor armor piercing. (The magic damage portion of course or at least it seems to)

 

[JenksLaw]

EtKEnn - well said.

Seems the purpose of this is still to come with ranger ideas right?

Would it be possible to modify the new /pet plugin to allow classes to summon pets? tweek the hp up a little to make them viable. Have the wolf deal no damage but instead do a slow(Hamstring Bite?). Lose the ice arrow ability. Make people choose to kill the wolf really fast to lose the slow or go right for the ranger. Replace ice arrow with another damage alternative. armor pierce? electricity? A 'heal' arrow would be fun too.

edit: a stun arrow would be nice too to replace kick. I would rather stun and get distance from someone (2 seconds) than have the 5 second silence. Unless the stun and the subsequent "free shot" is too strong.

 

[leftovers5]

JenksLaw the "stun" is basically IceArrow in its current form.

Like I said, nerf IceArrow and bring back the nerfed version of Arrowstorm.

 

[chvia]

Aragorn from The Lord of the Rings was a Ranger...

 

[mikehk]

active skill!
ChinkShot: Instantly fires an arrow at full speed to exploit a weakness in armor, bypassing all armor and doing 100% bow damage.
might be kinda OP with icearrow and all, but would be kinda cool if other skills weren't so dominant.