Suggestion Random Caster Weapon Tweeks

[TheTMTrainer]

Just a random idea I came up with for all Caster classes. Somebody posted something on a different thread like this, but didn't get much attention. Here of st3pur308's and my ideas.

Fists - Does 0.50 damage compaired to wielding a hoe.
Wooden hoe - Does 0.70 damage.
Stone hoe - Does 0.80 damage.
Iron hoe - Does 0.90 damage.
Gold or Diamond hoe - Does 1.00 damage.
Book - Does 0.80 damage but gives 0.50 increase in Mana regeneration.

 

[alexhoff1]

considering casters seem not to use melee weapons as much... it sounds fine to me.

 

[TheTMTrainer]

considering casters seem not to use melee weapons as much... it sounds fine to me.

When I mean damage, I mean damage with fireball/spells.

 

[Faunherer]

Thanks for reposting my idea, maybe now it'll be recognized I like your tweeks better though

 

[SemajArchMage]

This is what's called a spell damage multiplier and if it gets implemented as the damage values currently are, casters would be outright screwed without gold hoes. This is because although melee can get away with doing less damage per swing with an iron sword, a caster cannot magically make up for the loss of his fireball spells when he runs out of mana.

Coupled with the fact that they must kill the enemy before they get into melee range and it's a delicate balance you're treading on here. Faster mana regeneration for books is a great idea though, as that does make casters stronger without gimping them at the lowest end of the scale. Beguilers only know they already can't kill warriors with their full mana bar.

 

[Dazureus]

Running a couple of examples. I round all the decimals down to the nearest whole number. Brackets just show the difference between the last tier and this tier.

Wizard's Fireball (to account for fire, add 4 ticks of 2 damage)
Fist: 9
Wood Hoe: 12.6 [9+3]
Stone Hoe/Book: 14.4 [12+2]
Iron Hoe: 16.2 [14+2]
Diamond Hoe: 18 [16+2]

Wizard's Bolt
Fist: 17.5
Wooden Hoe: 24.5 [17+7]
Stone Hoe/Book: 28 [24+4)
Iron Hoe: 31.5 [28+3]
Diamond Hoe: 35 [31+4]

I would like for Gold Hoes to have a 1.1 boost (Fireball 19.8, Bolt 38.5), like how they do more than diamond for every other class. In general this is an awesome idea and I would love to see it implemented.

I also suggested this before anybody mentioned in this thread did. d('_'d)

Now, about the book- do you mean that while holding it Casters would regen mana faster? What if it just cut down on mana usage instead, since we're already modifying skills? Plus no using diamond-hoe skills and just switching back to a book.

 

[Dielan9999]

Not all caster specs fireball's do the same damage :/

 

[Dazureus]

Not all caster specs fireball's do the same damage :/

According to the wiki, the other three all have the same base damage for Fireball: 17.

Fists: 8.5
Wood: 11.9 (8+3)
Stone/Book: 13.6 (11+2)
Iron: 15.3 (13+2)
Diamond: 17 (15+2)
Gold at 110%: 18.7 (17+1, could bump to 17+2)

 

[Dielan9999]

According to the wiki, the other three all have the same base damage for Fireball: 17.

Fists: 8.5
Wood: 11.9 (8+3)
Stone/Book: 13.6 (11+2)
Iron: 15.3 (13+2)
Diamond: 17 (15+2)
Gold at 110%: 18.7 (17+1, could bump to 17+2)

Wiki is outdated Besides, it also scales as you level.

 

[Dazureus]

Wiki is outdated Besides, it also scales as you level.

Wiki is always outdated, innit? =.= Could Kain supply that particular bit of information for the Caster pages?

But what do you think of the idea in general? If it's good we (you? :| wish I was Balance Team) can hammer out the specifics and see if it would work.

 

[Flippintuna1]

This is what's called a spell damage multiplier and if it gets implemented as the damage values currently are, casters would be outright screwed without gold hoes. This is because although melee can get away with doing less damage per swing with an iron sword, a caster cannot magically make up for the loss of his fireball spells when he runs out of mana.

Coupled with the fact that they must kill the enemy before they get into melee range and it's a delicate balance you're treading on here. Faster mana regeneration for books is a great idea though, as that does make casters stronger without gimping them at the lowest end of the scale. Beguilers only know they already can't kill warriors with their full mana bar.

What are you talking about? Casters do tons of damage by them selves and if mele classes wanted to do 3-6 damage a hit from close range they could use an iron sword but atleast they would have something more then food and bind items on them. I love the hoe modifiers idea btw

 

[Aetosion]

Retweak:
Fists - Does 0.50 damage compared to wielding a hoe.
Wooden hoe - Does 0.75 damage.
Stone hoe - Does 0.85 damage.
Iron hoe - Does 0.95 damage.
Diamond hoe - Does 1.05 damage.
Gold hoe - Does 1.15 damage.
Book - Does 0.90 damage but gives 0.50 increase in Mana regeneration.


Fireball will be going poof soon, I'd wait until after that to work this stuff.

 

[SemajArchMage]

What are you talking about? Casters do tons of damage by them selves and if mele classes wanted to do 3-6 damage a hit from close range they could use an iron sword but atleast they would have something more then food and bind items on them. I love the hoe modifiers idea btw

Read the post and you wouldn't be so confused. A caster nerf with scaling items like this would mean casters get the same number of fireballs before mana runs out, yet do significantly less damage versus hitpoint scaling opponents. A warrior with a wooden sword can still autoattack indefinitely, while the caster is left defenseless once his spell power is gone. Essentially this is a nerf that swings that pendulum the other way, making casters useless unless they have gold weapons while warriors are still a viable if not difficult option even with a stone sword. Emptying your mana bar into an enemy and still not killing him would be the death of the mage archetype, before even considering what it does to new players lacking the diamonds.

The retweaked values above work out better because iron is relatively obtainable and there's a benefit to carrying diamond/gold, though stone remains useless as you'd be out of mana before killing anyone. If the idea is to force casters to only carry diamond and gold weapons, then wood and stone weapons should be useless for melee too, not simply a point or two less that requires a grand total of 1-2 extra swings to kill a caster, who using the same quality weapon would be completely out of mana and defenseless.

 

[kevinlive]

This sounds really good and I would love to see this added to herocraft
Its not really a nerf, not a buff, but a balanced addon that fixes the "run out of graveyard and 1-shot everyone".