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Pyromancer

Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Likes
29
Location
USA
#2
A friend of mine recently mastered pyromancer and he brought to my attention that chaos orb... blows. I know many players have complained about pyromancer lately because of the recent nerfs. So, what if chaos orb became an AoE skill? If this is a wanted change, the damage should probably be lowered, slightly.

OR

Possibly remove the 2 redstone regeant on the skill since it no longer teleports.
 

Delfofthebla

Coder
Tier 4
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Likes
174
Location
United States
#6
Chaos orb is a fireball that's lost it's mojo. Imagine a 3 year old picking up a softball, and trying to throw it at your face. That's chaos orb.

It's a single target damaging ability that sets the target on fire. It used to teleport you to it, but unfortunately, no longer does.

I don't think changing this to a high damaging AoE ability is the best choice. I'm going to copy my post from the update thread that Kainzo made, and leave it up to whoever to actually read it.

My thoughts on the Pyromancer: http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/lets-talk-about-the-pyromancer.35328/

That post has a lot of nitty gritty mechanics written up in there, but I think that the information contained within it is important when considering the future of the Pyromancer.

I've thought about this a lot, and I really think that the Pyromancer could use some love. It's a great concept with a lot of potential, I just don't see the potential actually being used properly.

Someone once brought up Dark Souls (Kainzo perhaps?) in reference to the Pyromancer. I think this is a good reference. It shows that the Pyromancer doesn't have to be entirely focused around fire. They use dark magic--they curse, they twist, and the distort. Adding in another ability to give it a push towards this direction is something I think would be worthwhile.

So here's what I propose.

1. Remove Fire Weapon
The Pyromancer already has any player that he targets on fire 100% of the time. Between Fireball, Blaze, Fire Armor, and Chaos Orb, it is very rare that a player fighting the Pyromancer is not on fire. It's unnecessary fluff that doesn't actually aid him in any way.

2. Add Curse
One of the biggest weaknesses of the Pyromancer is that he a melee caster that can't actually fight any melee classes. In a straight up fight, despite the Pyromancer's large amount of weapon damage, he does not have the ability to defeat another melee. If he wishes to fight a melee class, he must kite them using Fireball and Wither.

By adding the "Curse" ability, you allow them to stand a chance. It also, coincidentally, fits right in with their theme of dark magic. It would add a bit of "melee" flavor to the Pyromancer without directly buffing their melee damage.

3. Rework Chaos Orb
Chaos orb is an interesting ability. When Ender Pearls were enabled, it allowed you to get through 1x1 holes, jump up ledges, and even juke your enemies by throwing it off of a cliff. Yet, it was also your highest damaging ability. You could try and use it for utility, to gain an edge on your opponent, (and sometimes as an escape mechanic), but if you did so, you lost a large amount of potential damage. It was truly an interesting ability.

However, due to the Ender Pearling fiasco that resulted in many players using Ender Pearls and Chaos Orb to travel through LWC doors and solid blocks, the ability has lost it's luster. Now, I'll admit, I'm almost entirely at fault for this, as I was one of the first players to truly abuse it in an open fashion. I chaos orb'd through more walls that I could possibly imagine, and I did it right in front of the very players that hid behind them. I was told it was legal, so I did it. And I didn't stop until I was told that I couldn't do so anymore.

I miss the ability a bit, but even when the skill worked properly, I felt as though it wasn't strong enough. The projectile speed was far, far too slow, and the distance was so pitiful I actually laughed for a good 10 minutes the first time I used it. It had a unique "raiding" utility, but as far as combat was concerned, it was an unreliable piece of garbage that never actually landed when you really needed it to.

So, how do we rework this ability? What should it do? Should it be scrapped until Ender Pearls are re-enabled? Should it be left as is and a completely new ability replace it? I don't quite know. I'd like to see some feedback on this from the rest of the balance team before I talk anymore about it.

4. Rebalance Wither
Wither wither wither. I have a love / hate relationship with this ability. Due to the minecraft mechanics I've mentioned in my suggestion post, Wither basically grants complete immunity to all melee damage while it ticks on a target. This means that whenever a Pyromancer uses Wither, he is forced to rely completely on his spells in order to damage the target, as his axe will connect once, maybe twice, during the entire duration of with Wither effect. Even still, I don't think it's a good idea to remove this ability from the Pyromancer. I think it's possible to integrate this awkward mechanic into the Pyromancer skillset without completely destroying it.

So here's what you do.
First, reduce the cast range on Wither by 1-2 blocks. This prevents it from being used purely as a "kiting" ability. A Pyromancer will no longer be able to spam wither / fireball / blaze and run in circles while he runs at a safe distance. If he wants to wither, he should have to be close. The Pyromancer is a melee caster--force him into melee.

Second, increase the damage. Make it a crucial part of the Pyromancer's skillset. Sure, they could "not" use wither, but they should be forced to make up for their lack of withering with something else. It will be impossible for the Pyromancer to deal any decent amount of Axe damage while the withering effect is present, so it's important for the ability to deal damage on it's own.

And finally, reduce the duration. It should be a "short burst" of damage to an enemy. Don't force the Pyromancer, or his target, to be locked into a witherfest. The Pyromancer should have an opportunity to deal axe damage when he wants to, and the target should feel as though a powerful ability has worn off and that he is now able to react.

5. Reduce Their Axe Damage.
With an increase in effectiveness of their withering ability, and an additional ability behind their belts to aid them in melee combat (Curse), it's important to not let them keep too much of an edge here. The bulk of the Pyromancer's damage should come from his abilities--not his left clicks. Reducing his damage ensures that he doesn't have such destructive power against light armored classes, and still stands on the same level as the other melee.
Perhaps, with the proposed changes, chaos orb does not need much of a change. I think if the projectile speed was increased, it would be a pretty decent ability. As I mentioned in my original suggestion post, the biggest issue with it is that you run faster than it does. It's impossible to hit anyone with it because you block the orb with your own body. It's a bit ridiculous. If it wasn't possible to run into it when sprinting forward, it just might be at a good place. Obviously, having the teleport come back would be very desirable, but until there is a solution to the Ender Pearl problem, we can't hope for much here.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Likes
448
Location
USA
#7
With Pyromancer's targets being on fire and being withered, it almost removes its ability to act as a melee caster. I do think stepping the class away from melee is in the long run beneficial, as it is currently fruitless to even attempt fighting melee classes as a Pyromancer. Its a weird mix of melee and mid-ranged skills combined with low-ish survivability removes it from being a mainstream class. It needs to have more focus in one direction or the other, and leaning towards spells is the best option.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Likes
29
Location
USA
#8
I have a question concerning firearmor. Is there any reason why the pyromancer has to be wearing a gold chest plate? (Thats what I was told) I started playing pyromancer yesterday, and I was a bit disappointed to find you can't just wear leather for it to work. Poorer players would find it pretty hard to constantly use a gold chest plate in battle, and if you don't wear gold, you're kind of being cheated out of a very useful skill. I talked to some people yesterday, and all of them disagreed with my statement.

Also, does anyone else feel like pyromancer should have bash rather than kick since they would more likely bash someone with their axe?
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Likes
69
Location
Idaho United States
#9
chaosorb should fit it's description and only tp you once you have the ability to use enderpearls. currently its a pain to level as one of its main damaging abilities will in the long run prove your downfall in leveling. currently, when you chaosorb a mob, it'll TP you on top of it making it hit you immediatly. if it's a zombie, it'll light you on fire as well. this isnt really a max level debuff, rather its a leveling help while not changing its damage. most people dont pvp until higher level anyways.
 
Joined
May 15, 2014
Likes
33
Location
New York City
#10
i think pyromancer is one of the more balanced classes in the game.
There's only a few things holding it back currently (My opinion)

The glitches and bugs
Darkbolt sometimes just does nothing at all. Sometimes it just deals one tick of dmg and no wither. Even while aimed at the ground
Inferno orb in certain occasians hits the enemy, burns the mana, but does no damage or fire ticks.
The wiki states the fire ticks on inferno orb deal 60 dmg per tick. This is incorrect however as it deals the regular 15 dmg per tick. Not sure if the wiki is at fault or the dmg

Mana costs
As a melee mage like pyro, mana costs should be a minimal worry. Where as wizard gets an amazing mana regen skill and low mana cost abilities, pyro gets a horrible mana regen ability (Darkblade) that deals minuscule damage and grants mana based on strength. The pyro can dish out around 6 abilities before running dry on mana. and with infernoflash being pyros only chase tool and one of the highest mana costs, running out of mana is a game ender for pyro

Doomwave
This ability I think has a lot of potential but is currently lacking.
Here's the negatives of the ability
almost 20% mana pool cost
All that teleporting (Honestly I think is pointless thematically and offensively)
The Random shooting of orbs (Doomwave not DoomOrbsflyingallovertheplace)
I think if only one of these negatives are fixed then the ability and class will be well off

Those are my thoughts on pyro currently. Disagree/agree?
 
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