Suggestion Pyromancer Fixes

[iAlchemist]

So I have been testing pyromancer for a little while now to see what all the fuss is about. and here is what I have to say.

Sadly, Pyromancer had only one thing that made it fail my test. Inconsistency. Most pyro skills are completely volatile, and may actually do nothing at all when you use them, making them a waste of mana.

Out of all these inconsistent skills, the biggest offender is nothing more than possibly the most volatile skill in history.

Darkbolt.

From shit to OP to more shot, this skill has seen better days, such a powerful tool, but alas, it was all for naught. Casting dark bolt is like rolling some dice. Either it works, hits, and you win, OR, it fails completely, or hits the opponent directly, and you lose a shit ton of mana for nothing.

Fixing darkbolt starts like this. Code it like fireball, or similar to it, so that when it hits something directly it still deals damage. I can't remember how many times I've bit people directly with darkbolt, only for it to hit like a useless shit snowball.

Temporary fixes- Replace Darkbolt with wizard's fireball for a small bit of time
-reasoning-
Fireball is a skill that is already complete, has the same projectile speed as darkbolt, and adds to the pyro's toolbelt nicely. Although it is not darkbolt by any means, it still acts as a range to that can actually be used consistently.
Increase the damage of this fireball, along with the cool down and mana cost.

Possible fixes-
Experiment with the entities used in the cast. Try arrows, or ghast fireballs. Etc.

 

[Kainzo]

So I have been testing pyromancer for a little while now to see what all the fuss is about. and here is what I have to say.

Sadly, Pyromancer had only one thing that made it fail my test. Inconsistency. Most pyro skills are completely volatile, and may actually do nothing at all when you use them, making them a waste of mana.

Out of all these inconsistent skills, the biggest offender is nothing more than possibly the most volatile skill in history.

Darkbolt.

From shit to OP to more shot, this skill has seen better days, such a powerful tool, but alas, it was all for naught. Casting dark bolt is like rolling some dice. Either it works, hits, and you win, OR, it fails completely, or hits the opponent directly, and you lose a shit ton of mana for nothing.

Fixing darkbolt starts like this. Code it like fireball, or similar to it, so that when it hits something directly it still deals damage. I can't remember how many times I've bit people directly with darkbolt, only for it to hit like a useless shit snowball.

Temporary fixes- Replace Darkbolt with wizard's fireball for a small bit of time
-reasoning-
Fireball is a skill that is already complete, has the same projectile speed as darkbolt, and adds to the pyro's toolbelt nicely. Although it is not darkbolt by any means, it still acts as a range to that can actually be used consistently.
Increase the damage of this fireball, along with the cool down and mana cost.

Possible fixes-
Experiment with the entities used in the cast. Try arrows, or ghast fireballs. Etc.

We'll consider changing DarkBolt for Fireball
@xexorian | @Coders
wanna take a look at Darkbolt?

 

[barbas0l]

The fireball trade would remove the AOE effect, which is IMO a bit more important to the skill. The direct hit bug is obnoxious, but replacing it altogether with fireball isn't the fix, temporary or permanently. Reworking the skill to work on direct hit while maintaining the AOE effect should be the goal IMO. I know it's not intended, but aiming darkbolt at walls/ground near the enemy is an easy guaranteed hit with its AOE radius. Replacing with fireball and adding mana/timer costs would be a rough swap that I don't think would benefit/balance the class.

Other than the darkbolt direct hit issue, I think the t2 skill Firestorm is the main issue facing pyros(well flameweaver ). The rough timer between cast and damage, and lacking visuals, make this skill hard to aim/use.

I'm a huge fan of the class, and I honestly think it's in a great place barring the aforementioned issues. I'm not sure what volatility you are referencing in regards to the rest of their abilities. I have no issues using any of their other abilities, although I find flameshield a bit on the useless side.

 

[iAlchemist]

The fireball trade would remove the AOE effect, which is IMO a bit more important to the skill. The direct hit bug is obnoxious, but replacing it altogether with fireball isn't the fix, temporary or permanently. Reworking the skill to work on direct hit while maintaining the AOE effect should be the goal IMO. I know it's not intended, but aiming darkbolt at walls/ground near the enemy is an easy guaranteed hit with its AOE radius. Replacing with fireball and adding mana/timer costs would be a rough swap that I don't think would benefit/balance the class.

Other than the darkbolt direct hit issue, I think the t2 skill Firestorm is the main issue facing pyros(well flameweaver ). The rough timer between cast and damage, and lacking visuals, make this skill hard to aim/use.

I'm a huge fan of the class, and I honestly think it's in a great place barring the aforementioned issues. I'm not sure what volatility you are referencing in regards to the rest of their abilities. I have no issues using any of their other abilities, although I find flameshield a bit on the useless side.

The AoE ability of the skill is vital, that is understood.

But it's also completely inconsistent. I've had darkbolt fail without hitting anything at all, on numerous occasions. Inferno orb has done the same thing a few times.

The reason darkbolt is so important for the pyro is because it's the fastest and longest range projectile that pyro can fire off, BUT, I'll take fireball for a more consistent damage output over a skill that I can't rely on in a fight.

Fireball would only be a temporary fix while they fix the real darkbolt.

 

[barbas0l]

I see where you are coming from, but I disagree. Darkbolt's importance lies in the tick and wither effect. The wither and tick give pyro's an ability to keep stealth classes unstealthed, and to limit the amount of healing from healers. Pyro's have a real hard time dealing with healers already, and removing the "mortal strike" heal debuff removes their only true healing counter.

Pyro's do a pretty insane amount of damage at the moment, and adding fireball would push it pretty close to OP status.

• Fireball - (95 + 1.5 per intellect point) damage and setting your target on fire (doing 60 damage per fire tick).

If you're looking for a temporary filler, then I think beguiler's chaotic visions spell is a bit of a more balanced quick fix.

• Chaotic Visions - (80 + 1.5 per intellect point) damage on your target within 12 blocks as well as enemies within 4 blocks of your target.

You lose the tick and heal debuff, but keep the aoe effect of the ability. The damage and costs are configurable (I think... lol). I understand pyros are fire casters, and fireball seems like an automatic skill for a fire caster. The catch is the balance of pyromancers. Pyros do an insane amount of damage, and their limiting factor is their range. The lack of range is what balances the class against other classes. Darkbolt has a 20 second cooldown, and really isn't a reliable form of damage for the class. The debuff/counter it provides towards specific classes is it's strength.

If you around today or tomorrow, I'd be happy to hop in TS and do some arenas with you. We can brainstorm on what might benefit the class temporarily, without making it too strong.

 

[iAlchemist]

I see where you are coming from, but I disagree. Darkbolt's importance lies in the tick and wither effect. The wither and tick give pyro's an ability to keep stealth classes unstealthed, and to limit the amount of healing from healers. Pyro's have a real hard time dealing with healers already, and removing the "mortal strike" heal debuff removes their only true healing counter.

Pyro's do a pretty insane amount of damage at the moment, and adding fireball would push it pretty close to OP status.

• Fireball - (95 + 1.5 per intellect point) damage and setting your target on fire (doing 60 damage per fire tick).

If you're looking for a temporary filler, then I think beguiler's chaotic visions spell is a bit of a more balanced quick fix.

• Chaotic Visions - (80 + 1.5 per intellect point) damage on your target within 12 blocks as well as enemies within 4 blocks of your target.

You lose the tick and heal debuff, but keep the aoe effect of the ability. The damage and costs are configurable (I think... lol). I understand pyros are fire casters, and fireball seems like an automatic skill for a fire caster. The catch is the balance of pyromancers. Pyros do an insane amount of damage, and their limiting factor is their range. The lack of range is what balances the class against other classes. Darkbolt has a 20 second cooldown, and really isn't a reliable form of damage for the class. The debuff/counter it provides towards specific classes is it's strength.

If you around today or tomorrow, I'd be happy to hop in TS and do some arenas with you. We can brainstorm on what might benefit the class temporarily, without making it too strong.

At the momen, I'm not the best representation of a pvp avid pyromancer, so arena would be a good place to practice.

I can see what you mean about chaotic visions, and I agree.

Although your one statement about fireball not dealing damage over time is incorrect-it does grant fire ticks.

 

[barbas0l]

I didn't mean it didn't do tick damage, I was referring to the importance of darkbolts ticks. I'm worried the fireball tick damage would be too much damage overall for the class to be dealing. I gotta take a multi hour drive, but I'll be back later tonight and tomorrow for some duels

 

[Haxnn]

My suggestion would be to replace darkbolt with the old skill that was blaze. It fits the class thematically and could be adjusted to make it do the same damage, while still keeping the aoe aspect of the skill.

For those not aware, blaze was essentially pulse with a slightly larger range and also ignited everyone hit.