Suggestion PvP exp and spawn campers

[j2gay]

If you would kindly reread my post, you would see that i said that "the bounty would not give the slayer the money" aka if you killed the bountied person, you get no money but the person loses the bounty's equivelant value of souls. So what you just posted doesn't make any sense.

In that case your original post makes even less sense. What incentive is there for people to try to kill a high level player in your system? Its not like the noob hunters are out there getting killed very often.
The remainder of my argument remains valid.

 

[RaekinTheBored]

In that case your original post makes even less sense. What incentive is there for people to try to kill a high level player in your system? Its not like the noob hunters are out there getting killed very often.
The remainder of my argument remains valid.

I disagree with this a bit. I have known quite a number of players that purposely go after 'noob-hunters' just for the sake of killing them. As I recall, firebus used to camp noobs all the time, but sure enough like clockwork, within an hour or so of this happening other players would show up to kill him. Rangers in my town were always getting asked to track down the noob-hunters.

I believe macura's idea is a viable one. If the current trend of the last map (anti-noob slaying) continues in this one, than quite a number of players will jump on the bandwagon to get these players. I do feel the 1-2 hour time limit is far too short. Most will just kill a lot than log off until such time as they feel the bounty is gone; merely avoiding the negative impact by simply going outside, reading a book, eating dinner, or going to school. Granted, this is time away from HC, but certainly if they had intended to get off the game anyway than a "Hey, might as well kill some noobs before I do" mentality is forged.

 

[j2gay]

I disagree with this a bit. I have known quite a number of players that purposely go after 'noob-hunters' just for the sake of killing them. As I recall, firebus used to camp noobs all the time, but sure enough like clockwork, within an hour or so of this happening other players would show up to kill him. Rangers in my town were always getting asked to track down the noob-hunters.

I believe macura's idea is a viable one. If the current trend of the last map (anti-noob slaying) continues in this one, than quite a number of players will jump on the bandwagon to get these players. I do feel the 1-2 hour time limit is far too short. Most will just kill a lot than log off until such time as they feel the bounty is gone; merely avoiding the negative impact by simply going outside, reading a book, eating dinner, or going to school. Granted, this is time away from HC, but certainly if they had intended to get off the game anyway than a "Hey, might as well kill some noobs before I do" mentality is forged.

People were hunting fifebus last map because he constantly had a bounty on his head. It never deterred his poor behavior. I think he might have even enjoyed it.

 

[JTCMidas]

Also, what is the incentive to stop killing once you go negative money? If you aren't spending souls on anything, you just give your souls to a friend and they can fund your region or lwcs or whatnot. Then the penalty is not a penalty.

You want a deterrent? EXP loss. You kill someone <arbitrary levels below you, you get a mark. After 5 marks, every kill costs you a whole level. Marks dissipate 1 per hour ONLINE (so no logging out to drop marks). So if you kill 6 noobs in an hour, you just lost a whole level. Kill 10? You just lost 4 levels and it will take 6 hours before you can kill a noob again without losing a level. Now you've possibly deterred noob camping.

Granted I have no clue if that's even scriptable or not... just my idea.

 

[j2gay]

Also, what is the incentive to stop killing once you go negative money? If you aren't spending souls on anything, you just give your souls to a friend and they can fund your region or lwcs or whatnot. Then the penalty is not a penalty.

You want a deterrent? EXP loss. You kill someone <arbitrary levels below you, you get a mark. After 5 marks, every kill costs you a whole level. Marks dissipate 1 per hour ONLINE (so no logging out to drop marks). So if you kill 6 noobs in an hour, you just lost a whole level. Kill 10? You just lost 4 levels and it will take 6 hours before you can kill a noob again without losing a level. Now you've possibly deterred noob camping.

Granted I have no clue if that's even scriptable or not... just my idea.

I think its too severe. I only want to deter those who are deliberately hunting low level players and then harassing them. You could legitimatly kill 6 low levels in an hour if you are wandering around killing miners.

 

[JupiterRome]

I didint feel like reading all this but from what @RaekinTheBored said (that I read) I think he is right, a lot of times noob campers get tracked and like 3v1ed, and tbh what fun would hc be without jerks?

 

[JTCMidas]

I think its too severe. I only want to deter those who are deliberately hunting low level players and then harassing them. You could legitimatly kill 6 low levels in an hour if you are wandering around killing miners.

If you can find 6 different miners in an hour who are all underground... I'd probably think you were cheating anyway. Just saying... that seems pretty unlikely to happen and if you killed 5 miners... well just don't kill that 6th one. You have the choice to kill low levels or not to, so I don't think it's too severe at all.

 

[j2gay]

If you can find 6 different miners in an hour who are all underground... I'd probably think you were cheating anyway. Just saying... that seems pretty unlikely to happen and if you killed 5 miners... well just don't kill that 6th one. You have the choice to kill low levels or not to, so I don't think it's too severe at all.

Did you read my original post?

 

[macura]

@RaekinTheBored it would stack up and degrade by 1-2 per hour not wipe after 1-2 hours. So if i killed a noob 10 times it would take 25-50 hours for the effect to go all the way to 0.

Also, what is the incentive to stop killing once you go negative money? If you aren't spending souls on anything, you just give your souls to a friend and they can fund your region or lwcs or whatnot. Then the penalty is not a penalty.

You want a deterrent? EXP loss. You kill someone <arbitrary levels below you, you get a mark. After 5 marks, every kill costs you a whole level. Marks dissipate 1 per hour ONLINE (so no logging out to drop marks). So if you kill 6 noobs in an hour, you just lost a whole level. Kill 10? You just lost 4 levels and it will take 6 hours before you can kill a noob again without losing a level. Now you've possibly deterred noob camping.

Granted I have no clue if that's even scriptable or not... just my idea.

I have already stated why xp loss can be abused to hell. Also i am not sure you fully understand how bad having negative money would be. You would never be able to spec, pay for equipment, have an lwc, have a personal region or even buy redstone at the gy to recall. It would effectively freeze all of your assets until you paid your dues.

 

[j2gay]

@RaekinTheBored it would stack up and degrade by 1-2 per hour not wipe after 1-2 hours. So if i killed a noob 10 times it would take 25-50 hours for the effect to go all the way to 0.

I have already stated why xp loss can be abused to hell. Also i am not sure you fully understand how bad having negative money would be. You would never be able to spec, pay for equipment, have an lwc, have a personal region or even buy redstone at the gy to recall. It would effectively freeze all of your assets until you paid your dues.

Or you could be a non a**hat, and do just fine.

 

[macura]

Or you could be a non a**hat, and do just fine.

Hold up there tiger there is no reason to get angry. Anyway, if you disagree please say why and give a valid reason, not call people asshats and menstruate furiously.

 

[j2gay]

@RaekinTheBored it would stack up and degrade by 1-2 per hour not wipe after 1-2 hours. So if i killed a noob 10 times it would take 25-50 hours for the effect to go all the way to 0.

I have already stated why xp loss can be abused to hell. Also i am not sure you fully understand how bad having negative money would be. You would never be able to spec, pay for equipment, have an lwc, have a personal region or even buy redstone at the gy to recall. It would effectively freeze all of your assets until you paid your dues.

Seriously though you really haven't. You have made a few statements wrought with fallacy about how you think it could be abused and cited them as a reason not to test the system. You have yet to offer a legitimate example of how such abuse might realistically play out.
As for your system, I kill ten noobs and "MAYBE" I "MIGHT" lose 50s if I happen to die. Doesn't seem like much of a disincentive, especially if exp is reinstated. If PvP exp which is currently at 0 where to be left at 0 this might help some. But all I would need to do is have 1 friend in my group who is a non pvp person and trustworthy. We all give him the souls for the group and kill whoever we want.

 

[j2gay]

Hold up there tiger there is no reason to get angry. Anyway, if you disagree please say why and give a valid reason, not call people asshats and menstruate furiously.

Settle down there I was making a funny about the money.

 

[teddytazer]

The people who target new players or camp graveyards or recall points in town, won't be getting better anytime soon.. Adding exp or money loss upon killing low level players is a bad idea, Cause what I predict will happen is towns will throw low level players in front, just to weaken the wallets and exp bars of anyone that opposes them.

The best solution is to just stand up and do the right thing, When you see people getting camped, or new players dying.. help them and target those players who feed off killing weaker players.

 

[Teerian]

So after reading this entire thread (whew...), the best defense I can see so far AGAINST j2gay's suggestion is that it's potentially exploitable. To that I can only say the following:

Are you f***ing serious?

Are you really so blind as to not see how various facets of the server can be and ARE constantly exploited on a daily basis, or do you just choose to ignore it?

Dark rooms: illegal. Still used.
Bounty feeding: illegal. Still used.
Duping: HIGHLY illegal. Still done.
Harassment (obvious but veiled with various excuses): illegal. Still done.

And the list goes on, including but not limited to God knows how many illegal but difficult to detect mods. As stated before, any system will have some sort of exploitable flaw, and people WILL find it and WILL use it. The key is trying to limit the flaws to something easily monitored for swift enforcement.

That said, I believe that j's suggestion has potential and merits a testing phase. macura's idea wasn't bad either, but it seemed to be treated as an alternative. Why not both in the same system? Sure, experience loss for camping a newbie might slightly deter mindless and continuous camping, but then again (as someone pointed out), a couple of nearby zombies could fix that loss. For the true a**hats (since that seems to be the word of the day. I like it.), the bounty would come into play. True enough, there are a number of good-natured players here who hunt down the newbie killers. They would take advantage of this even without the promise of a reward. I certainly would. That's right up my alley.

As for the exploit of them transferring their money to a buddy when they go on a newbie-camping spree to avoid the bounty loss, stupidly super simple solution: negative money. That's right. You killed 50 noobs (or more in reality, the same two newbies ~25 times each) and racked up a nice bounty on your head. You tried logging out to waste it off, but wait! Apparently this bounty persists offline. You have to be ONLINE for the duration for it to run its course. Uh oh. Looks like Harry the Hero took you down and drained that (random number incomng) 1000c bounty right out of your pockets. Good thing those pockets were empty thanks to your banker buddy. Let's /money just to grin at that solid 0 that dropped to a 0.

...-1000 coins?! You mean I have to pay off that debt before I can have any hope of class/profession swapping or buying goods? THIS SUCKS! GARBAGE SERVER! RANT CRY PISS MOAN COMPLAIN RAGEQUIT!

Looks good to me.

Now don't misunderstand me. I agree with the others that 'evil' players add to the game, but as stated before, there's 'evil' and then there's 'a**hats' (there's that word of the day again. Mmmm...). Evil players will strike intelligently and methodically, and then duck into hiding like a smart criminal would do. They will gain the same feared reputation, the same enjoyment they get from playing that role, and the same instant-gratification risk-vs-reward profits that come with that style of play. The difference is now there will actually be a risk which, before, was practically non-existent, and the a**hat players who simply want to vent their frustrations or simple sick-mindedness get a swift and constant d***-punch.

D***-punch... Can that be tomorrow's word of the day? Sorry. Got off-topic for a second there.

Anyway, the tl;dr version: Good idea. No decent reason for not testing idea out. Extra ideas added that would mesh well with it. Ship it.

 

[j2gay]

The people who target new players or camp graveyards or recall points in town, won't be getting better anytime soon.. Adding exp or money loss upon killing low level players is a bad idea, Cause what I predict will happen is towns will throw low level players in front, just to weaken the wallets and exp bars of anyone that opposes them.

The best solution is to just stand up and do the right thing, When you see people getting camped, or new players dying.. help them and target those players who feed off killing weaker players.

Perhaps you missed the theme of the discussion. The idea here is to find a way to discourage the behavior, as what is being done now is not working. Your suggestion is to do what we are doing now which you admit clearly isn't working nor is it ever going to.
If raiders need to come in groups larger than 1or 2 because the exp loss of killing all the noobs in that town, or raid a different town with less noobs. J call that an unintended but desirable side effect.

 

[teddytazer]

Honestly, how many times do you stop and check the level of whom your about to fight.. stopping to type /hero whois name will get you killed.
Also getting raided/steamroll'd is normal during the time before regions, If you penalize people for killing players lower level, where does it end. next it will be, if you 2v1 you lose double exp.. want to stop gy/spawn camping. remove the redstone reagent for recall.. its going to be sold for 1 soul eventually just outside the graveyard soon enough.

 

[Teerian]

If the system is done right, you won't need to check a person's level. It's typically pretty obvious if someone is low level or not based on the things they're carrying. Wooden or stone sword? Probably a lost soul who has very little hope of fending off someone who has already picked a specialization. Iron or diamond spade/hoe/axe/ect? Fairly safe bet that they're in level range. If they're not, chances are they aren't going to charge you first. Why? Well, that ties into the aggressor part of the system mentioned earlier.

I'm going to stop you right here before you offer the suggestion of them disguising their equipment. If you think typing /hero whois name will get you killed, imagine how many times over one would die tossing on a set of armor for a sneak attack or as defense for when a disguise fails. Yeah, no.

As for getting raided/steamrolled before regions, please. It happens regardless of what phase the map is in. The majority of the server seems to use the same mentality you appear to have judging by your post: Kill first, ask questions after you've looted all of the dead guy's valuables.

 

[j2gay]

Honestly, how many times do you stop and check the level of whom your about to fight.. stopping to type /hero whois name will get you killed.
Also getting raided/steamroll'd is normal during the time before regions, If you penalize people for killing players lower level, where does it end. next it will be, if you 2v1 you lose double exp.. want to stop gy/spawn camping. remove the redstone reagent for recall.. its going to be sold for 1 soul eventually just outside the graveyard soon enough.

What are you even talking about?
First with my suggestion killing 1 or even 10 noobs as part of the regular course of play will not affect you. Nor should it. Now that is not to say that the people who walk the map immediately engaging every player they see in combat, and spend little if any time doing anything else might not see some slight negative effect it will. But then IRL if you robbed every single person you ever come across things may not go that well for you. Had you read the the opening post or any of my other post throughout the thread you would understand that the proposed system is not intended to heavily penalize those players who may inadvertently kill a few newbs/noobs through normal play. It is not intended to and it will not. This system is designed to penalize those players who upon killing that random noob as part of normal play, decide because killing them was so easy, to follow them around the map killing them repeatedly in order to boost their kill streak, their ego, their exp bar(if exp is ever added back in) you name it.
Second using the slippery slope argument make you sound utterly ridiculous. No where here has anyone suggested negative exp for double, triple or even quadruple teaming people. In fact doing so under my system would lessen the risk of exp loss by spreading it out throughout the group. It is a system designed to combat 1 specific behavior. The deliberate, methodical, and intentional hunting and repeated stalking of low level players. A behavior that while it often takes place around the GY it is certainly not limited to them.
If you read my original post you will see that I have thought about what limited effects it may have outside of the target issue. The collateral effects if you will. These will by in large be positive and a boon to the community. For example being a total a**hat has long been the most profitable methodology in HC. It can also be very enjoyable. It however makes it difficult for others to play the game in the way they enjoy, a way which is already inherently less profitable. Such a situation is fully out of balance. If a side effect of this system is to make a**hattery less profitable, or less enjoyable to a degree, that would be called balance. Something which is desirable.

 

[teddytazer]

If the system is done right, you won't need to check a person's level. It's typically pretty obvious if someone is low level or not based on the things they're carrying. Wooden or stone sword? Probably a lost soul who has very little hope of fending off someone who has already picked a specialization. Iron or diamond spade/hoe/axe/ect? Fairly safe bet that they're in level range. If they're not, chances are they aren't going to charge you first. Why? Well, that ties into the aggressor part of the system mentioned earlier.

I'm going to stop you right here before you offer the suggestion of them disguising their equipment. If you think typing /hero whois name will get you killed, imagine how many times over one would die tossing on a set of armor for a sneak attack or as defense for when a disguise fails. Yeah, no.

As for getting raided/steamrolled before regions, please. It happens regardless of what phase the map is in. The majority of the server seems to use the same mentality you appear to have judging by your post: Kill first, ask questions after you've looted all of the dead guy's valuable

Actually.. I tend to not kill or attack every person I see/encounter.. i am not homicidal lunatic.

Also regarding original post. say for instance a lvl 10 berserker kills a lvl 30 lost soul.. will he get exp?