I was thinking that perhaps there should be a deterrent for killing someone much lower level than you, such as negative experience for killing those 10 levels or more lower level that you. And not split among the party, full negative to each to deter large raiding parties against mere lowly lost souls. This would also necessitate the need for a more readily view-able level display, but I think that would probably be a good thing anyway.
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Suggestion PvP Deterrent
- Thread starter Duedarum
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
- Location
- The 7th Circle of Heaven
We are hoping to re-introduce karma and penalties towards murders. Thanks for the suggestion!
macura
Diamond
- Joined
- May 2, 2012
Karma=broken because it does not only penalize the noob campers, but anyone who likes pvp. You don't have to kill pvp in order to get rid of noob campers, find an alternative method. Like making a system that allows people to report others for noob camping. Then like a pe an admin could come and assess the player/situation and if the admin deems that they are in fact a noob camping butt munch then they could put a negative bounty on the person's head. (admin is needed to confirm so that people don't go around reporting each other all the time). By negative bounty i mean a bounty that gives the hunter no money but makes the camper lose the worth of the bounty, make it like 100c or something.
Or if you think that this would take up too much of the admin's time to check up on these then make a plugin that detects if someone kills another player more than 10-20 levels lower than them in a certain block distance from the graveyard.
If i pvp i will get bad karma, it is as simple as that. I don't kill low leveled people or camp but the people i might be fighting could be good players.
Also if one town is in a war with another. If one town generally has "good" players then the other town will automatically get evil karma bombed and get all of the negative effects. What are you gona do, let them kill you? The plugin that detects who hits whom first is useless because then i will have to let the guy hit me before i can hit him. Going into a standoff to see who hits first as a wizard against a ninja does not typically end well for the wizard.
And guess what... If the "good" person comes up to me it is almost impossible for the situation to end in my favor. If they walk straight up to me and i hit and kill them i get evil karma bombed, if i let them hit me first i have a huge chance of losing especially if i am a squishy. Lastly the good player can just walk up and ganks me while i refuse to hit them first, so what, they might get -100 karma but they can just make it back and now they have my stuff.
So in short here are the 3 outcomes (from the perspective of the "good" player)
1. I run up to the guy and when i kill him even though i was the aggressor i get even more positive buffs because i am "good"
2. They kill me and get karma bombed.
3. If they refuse to hit me first so that they do not become even more evil i can just walk up, position myself correctly and 1 hit them, even if this was a neutral player, so what -100karma i can just go find more evil players to gank.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
- Location
- The 7th Circle of Heaven
macura
Diamond
- Joined
- May 2, 2012
I hope my post is now worthy of being read, while you are reading my comment i shall include another post which i made in response to the good players getting all of their stuff soul bound while bad players lose it all proposal. If it is written oddly then that is because it is a copy paste.
Think of it this way. In any game and in real life the bad guys go around killing and steal to get stuff/money. The advantage of being bad over good is that you can go around and steal stuff and pretty much walk into building and houses and shit to grab their stuff. Due to regions, covered chests and this new suggestion all of that is taken away. The advantage of being good is that you are the majority, you don't have to run from the authority and you get whatever benefits kainzo decides to give good players. Due to regions and not stealing money upon killing people the idea of being bad is even further broken by this proposal.
As an evil player with this proposal. You have NOTHING to gain from being evil while you take all of the risk. Unless I am mistaken the point of the karma system is not to eliminate all evil players or pvpers from the server (because if that is the purpose it is doing a pretty fucking good job at it). Even if there was an attribute compensation for this it would not be sufficient because there would be 0 point in attempting to kill people because there is nothing to gain from it. Genghis Khan would have never gone out conquering parts of eastern asia if he could not enjoy the spoils of his victories. Also there is no ying without a yang. Without bad there is no good and without bad there is no pvp because no one would want to lose their status as "good" by killing another good player. On top of this the way that good vs bad is determined is unbelievably broken because the structure of HC is not like modern day society, it is more like middle ages/renaissance society. There is not a group that is civilians, a good that is the protectors and a minority that are the evil doers. There are many cities and sometimes kingdoms that are spread about the map that frequently fight with each other. It doesn't make me an "evil" player if i kill someone who is good, the person who is good might just have killed someone who is bad, making them have good karma. It especially does not mean that you are a good player when you kill a bad player. I am in nature an evil player. However if i only targeted a town that had a few bad people in it then i would in turn make myself a super good karma player and make the entire town a bad karma town. Every time i killed an evil player i would gain karma and every time someone who might have neutral karma kills me, then they would get bad karma because i had good karma.
Furthermore due to the structure of the cities and kingdoms killing people does not make you evil or good, it just means that your towns are enemies/not allied. For example in the 100 year war between the french and the English there was no "good" side. There was just 2 groups of people killing each other. On HC whichever group started off with bad/good karma would kick the other side's karma in one way or another, and in the end one side would be evil and the other good, which makes no sense. The way the karma system works in HC just doesn't fit the structure of minecraft and herocraft. A better system would be giving negative effects to those who prey on the newer players, however even this is easily breakable. In real life a civilian would never confront someone who is easily capable of killing them but because of respawning noobs could "karma bomb" the person by graveyard rushing and forcing the player to defend them self.
Anyway, what i am saying is that karma is an extremely broken system but i know that no matter the amount of evidence i use to support this claim, that it will not in any way alter the existence or attempted implementation of karma. So i will conclude with the fact that if this change, that good players will not drop their gear but evil players will, it will destroy all pvp and all the pvpers will leave the server, that is a guarantee. And it does not matter if the evil players are still able to obtain normal gear from those who they kill because as kainzo said "player will be carrying much more rare items".
In short,
Karma=broken
windows vista broken= this change
karma +this change= 0 point of being evil
0 point of being evil= server without evil players + smaller player base
server without evil players= inability for there to be good players
no ying= no yang
This is the cycle that will occur, this shows how karma will effectively break itself. If you read this until the end, then thanks for having the attention span to do so.