PvE vs PvP [The Great Debate of March 2015]

[i2ebel]

What is best? What should it be? Who is Right? Who is Wrong? The Debate begins!

 

[i2ebel]

Honestly, how the server is set up looks perfectly fine. The big deal people seem to be making out of whether the server goes full pvp isn't because there's a problem with the server but because the community has not expanded in their efforts to grow pvp as much as the community has tried to grow pve. You see so many towns advertizing in ch re but how many of those are in PvP? The problem isn't with the server. Its the community. If people want PvP to come back they need to expand on it and invite others instead of keeping it a huge unclaimed battleground.

 

[Beau_Nearh]

Problems;

+Level difference within PVP (a level 30 vs. a level 60 will lose nearly all the time)
+There's no system in place to ease PVE players into PVP
+Party sizes really does count, even if the other party has 2 more players they will almost always win (from experience)
+There's no objectives to fight for
+Townships bugs (such as arrow turrets not working) really stop drastic changes to PVE taking place
+No advantage for fighting out of arena (death chests)

Solutions;

+Ease the level gaps (I know this is on-going)
+I like @ChazzaMaGazza suggestion adding another 'war phase' into rotation
+Add a scaling system that affect AOE skills within parties
+Add objectives (Long time coming?)
+Fix the key defensive bugs (I am aware this is on-going)
+Remove death chests

edit #1;

+Add a treasure hunt system into PVP dungeons
+Increase exp gained from PVP regions

 

[i2ebel]

War phases that make everything PvP won't help. It will just give ambush opportunities. People in PvE don't want to have to look over their shoulder when they are moving their stuff around or even just adding an addition to their house.

I think the current objectives to fight for are the loot chests but yea I think we should add some more.

I don't agree with removing death chests. It gives the player an opportunity to retrieve their items back. In PvE its a limited time to get your stuff and keep on working on what you were doing. In PvP its a chance to restock and get a second chance to fight for your stuff back. When someone dies the deathchest becomes an objective.

 

[i2ebel]

edit #1;
+Increase exp gained from PVP regions

Mobs are easier to kill in PvP regions. So the effort becomes less for the same action. XP gains as well as difficult of mobs increases depending on how far from spawn you get. Source:Wiki

 

[LovelyArmor]

I disagree with Death Chests being removed. Possibly lowering the timer of them being locked will be a benefit but not the removal of them.
It's an objective to fight over if you happen to kill someone.

I also disagree with changing PvE with any kind of war zone that is larger than the one now. Townships need to be more stable, once they have the arrow turrets working, once towns have ways to properly and effectively defend and attack and still be able to have their town function correctly throughout the war. Go for it. War will be bring a strong dynamic towns that can be avoided by people who don't personally PvP (reason they are in PvE to start with) and players who like PvP but enjoy living on the PvE side will get the chance to have both.

PvP needs more goals, more reasons for players to go over there. The treasure hunt is fun, interesting and encourages healthy PvP. If there was a way to increase the rewards in each chest, more people will be willing to adventure into PvP. I, personally, would see more reason to head over to PvP if there was a reason for it besides -maybe- a half decent chest 4k blocks away from me.

If people want more PvP and they want players that are in the PvE to come over there, they need to work on finding ways to improving PvP on a player level. The server shouldn't have to force PvE players into PvP by shoving it on to their homes. Players shouldn't log in, immediately their lovely home is at risk of PvP and then just simply logging off because they choose to only play the PvE aspect of Herocraft

I agree that PvP players need to make more reasons for the PvE towns to come over and I feel like setting up towns would be the best way to go about it. Trading between towns could be completely different in PvP than PvE.
For example:

• Say your town needs Refined Soul Gems and another town creates them. PvP for the trade. If your town wins you get the Refined Soul Gems at either half the cost or nothing at all,(free money,hell yeah) if you lose you have to pay the full price or you give them another item that they desire as a fair trade of the two(item payment over money payment, so still free money).
  You get PvP, a good trade and everyone still benefits with their town getting stronger.
• Feel like your town got screwed out of a deal? War, Cannons, tons of PvP, sieging their town, and only stopping until you get what you wanted. This way it's a flow of trading in a more...PvP way.
• Creating kingdoms based off War and forced trading for money and power and land. Organized townships can be a huge reason to create massive castles, battlements, outposts.

War, trading, death, it's all a business. Treat it like one. Create a world that is wrapped around PvP but still involving towns, kingdoms, hunting and war.

You don't need to punish PvE. You need to create a prize worth fighting for in PvP. People need more reasons to go over to PvP who are from PvE. Once that is settled, then see what PvE needs to change.

 

[JupiterRome]

This Whole PVE vs PvP thing is stupid.... Some people wouldn't play without PvE Because a lot of people on HC are cancer and camp them or always come kill them, Then a lot of the PvPers just quit, and when they do play, They create 1 Powerhouse and don't try to recruit new players, So then they get bored and quit......... PvPers usually quit for things Kainzo has no control over, Put I hate how a lot of them say PvE should be removed, I mean really Those people would either quit then or, Assholes would camp them and then they would have to a) Quit b) Hide in their town, get board quit.......
PvE is Fine, I think Maybe a full server map PvP once or twice a week might be cool..... I agree that their should be some objectives but that's because some people don't PvP But will want the objectives enough to PvP, but tbh, PvPers don't PvP For loot and shit, they wanna have fun and kick the other teams ass.

 

[GoodGrief]

If pvp had resources that pve didn't (treasure chest are junk) then I would visit and battle more often. Otherwise not worth the risk. I can always level in a dungeon close to home. Or Arena if I really need to taste blood.

 

[GoodGrief]

I would go to pvp for mountable horses. Better yet mountable dragons.

 

[Jonsoon]

This Whole PVE vs PvP thing is stupid.... Some people wouldn't play without PvE Because a lot of people on HC are cancer and camp them or always come kill them, Then a lot of the PvPers just quit, and when they do play, They create 1 Powerhouse and don't try to recruit new players, So then they get bored and quit......... PvPers usually quit for things Kainzo has no control over, Put I hate how a lot of them say PvE should be removed, I mean really Those people would either quit then or, Assholes would camp them and then they would have to a) Quit b) Hide in their town, get board quit.......
PvE is Fine, I think Maybe a full server map PvP once or twice a week might be cool..... I agree that their should be some objectives but that's because some people don't PvP But will want the objectives enough to PvP, but tbh, PvPers don't PvP For loot and shit, they wanna have fun and kick the other teams ass.

OMG, a PvP player finally gets it!

 

[Domainoft]

PvP is risk for reward. If the reward isn't effective enough people will stay safe. Make the reward to great and even the most diehard pve players Will be forced to participate. Instead of large fundamental changes let's make small adjustments and see how we get along. You can never please everyone, and constant change often does more harm than good.

 

[GoodGrief]

Questing in pvp would definitely make it more interesting. I would also have the side benefit of causing players and their parties to cross paths more often.

 

[Trazil]

I like PVP more than any other part of the server, so yes I will always be biased towards it and would love for another map just PVP like bastion but I know that will never happen again. That does make me very sad how herocraft has lost much of its hardcore aspect and went into a very friendly state but what is done is done and PVP will most likely never recover because of it. I do feel however that in Haven there were reasons to be in PVP other in PVE (not just the horrible terrain which really wasn't as bad as most thought) you gained xp, money and other things at a slower rate which is almost no drawback considering you will almost never die. Now there is absolutely NO reason to go to PVP over PVE if you are a new or old player unless you just like fighting other players. There are no more pvpers that roam the map in groups anymore so even going to PVP is like you are still in PVE because to will almost never be attacked.

Now my opinion on the town plugin and how that has effected PVP vs PVE. Once turrets and things are fixed it will not help PVP at all, it will do the exact opposite. I show up at your town, you sit inside while I'm shot at by the turret, I make a cannon but can't waste 2 days online for to actually make you come outside so you just wait for me to log off the kill it. It makes PVP more of who can spend more time on a computer and who has more money which isn't fun for anyone. Secondly there are no more kingdoms, no more actual allies to call on whenever you need.

Now with noble plots, total safety= dead PVP, it's already dead but that is a nail in the coffin.

You will NEVER have rewards in PVP without hindering PVE in some way, people will complain that PVP has this or that and if herocraft keeps trying to appeal to both eventually one side will get ignored and die out which is what has happens to PVP.

 

[Trazil]

There is also tier 2 classes, giving PVE players MORE of a reason not to go to PVP, a 10% increase in huge and will mean if players are equal in skill the t2 theoretically will always win. It gives just another reason for people to complain about a level gap, a lvl 30t1 vs a 60t1 Atleast has a decent chance to win depending on their class and skill but t2 classes kill that entirely and should have NEVER been added.

A smarter though more time consuming way to make t2 classes would be to take 2 classes in the same tree that you need to master just to unlock another class, but the new class shouldn't be better than the others just have different skills and maybe a cooler title.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Trazil, the intent with the t2 skills is that they bring interest and value to mastering, but not that they offer an instant knock out. A mid-leveled t1 player should still stand a chance against a t2 player.

This is all part of the challenge of balancing the classes and their skills. (And was discussed at today's regular Balance Team meeting, which all players are welcome to attend.)

 

[MunchlaxHero]

OMG, a PvP player finally gets it!

hes a pver -_-

 

[Trazil]

Trazil, the intent with the t2 skills is that they bring interest and value to mastering, but not that they offer an instant knock out. A mid-leveled t1 player should still stand a chance against a t2 player.

This is all part of the challenge of balancing the classes and their skills. (And was discussed at today's regular Balance Team meeting, which all players are welcome to attend.)

If that is the only intent they should be designed around that , not just a buffed version of the original class, and if 2 people are the same lvl but one is a t2 the t2 will have access to their better skills, and should be able to win almost every time. A t1 vs a t2 does stand a chance and I never said they didn't however it adds to a level gap and isn't good for PVP which was my main point.