Suggestion Poll: Bastion 2.0 or Long Live Aegis?

[MunchlaxHero]

Long debate has unfolded whether to keep PvE or not. Here's the deal we can keep Aegis or we can fix what mistakes there are. No more Attributes. No more PvE. No more Player Kept Loot Upon Death. Long Live Aegis is Also Long Live PvE.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

Silly jasquan save your disagrees for the poll.

 

[Meljardo]

I see no poll option to keep pve so I am voting for that here

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

I'm curious about your suggestion to get rid of Attributes.

• What do people NOT like about Attributes?

• What DO people LIKE about Attributes?

 

[Pugglez_]

I'm curious about your suggestion to get rid of Attributes.

• What do people NOT like about Attributes?

• What DO people LIKE about Attributes?

Not much, but I would say its the fact that some classes dont need to spread around their points. So they only need to dump their points into. 2-3 attributes and they scale well off of it. So classes like Berserker.

What I do like about attributes is that you can play a class and play a different role for it. Like for example, Paladin can either choose to go more offensive and put more points into strength or choose to be more of a support-teamfighter by sacrificing strength for more wisdom for bigger heals. Without attributes, you are stuck with the amount of stats you were set to. So you can't do unique roles like Melee ranger or strength cleric.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

@whiteninja1970 How would you feel about drafting up the same sort of information you've presented here as a guide for new players - and existing players who haven't gotten their head around Attributes? I know I'd find it interesting, and it would be a good addition to the wiki. So you might include class name, inherent strengths, build directions, and attributes to focus on for those directions.

 

[JupiterRome]

Not much, but I would say its the fact that some classes dont need to spread around their points. So they only need to dump their points into. 2-3 attributes and they scale well off of it. So classes like Berserker.

What I do like about attributes is that you can play a class and play a different role for it. Like for example, Paladin can either choose to go more offensive and put more points into strength or choose to be more of a support-teamfighter by sacrificing strength for more wisdom for bigger heals. Without attributes, you are stuck with the amount of stats you were set to. So you can't do unique roles like Melee ranger or strength cleric.

TBH Wisdom paladin will fuck str PaladiN ANY DAY

(Back on Topic though)

 

[LightningCape]

I wont vote but here's my 2¢ on attributes.

I really don't understand why some people dislike them. Specifically bastion players. As an old bastion player myself I've convinced myself that it's one of these reasons:

• Some people liked having classes inherently rollover others
  • In bastion (Early-Mid) it was Wizard,Goon, Delfblade or bust simply because other classes couldn't compete with the armor or DPS these classes had. Classes had no "feel" to them and it just came down to who had more armor or who could get off the first hit. . Is it perfectly balanced yet? Nope, but I'd take it over bastion balance any day.

• Extra commands, it burns!
  • Simple, they don't like having to type extra commands. Laziness is kinda ties in to #1

• They find it too complicated/can't find info
  • Maybe a better job of reminding people about attributes can be done, but for the most part it's pretty straight forward imo.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

It seems to me that when you add Attributes to Heroes, you're moving from "choices" to "strategic decisions". The word that stands out for me in the description of Attributes is "personalize".

I'm thinking that without Attributes, you can assume that a Paladin is a Paladin is a Paladin, or a Dragoon is a Dragoon is a ... etc. Ie, known quantities. But when you add Attributes, not only does it make the game play more interesting for the player using them, it also would make it more challenging (and thus interesting) for their opponents.

All assumptions on my part.

I'm curious, you see, because this isn't the first time I've seen "drop attributes" in the same post as "improve the PvP". I'm not seeing the link.

 

[Jrr_]

Still need some things to be fixed before a new map, then I can see a new map (one map)

 

[MrFly007]

Bastion 2.0?
I'd rather DG all day

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

I'm curious about your suggestion to get rid of Attributes.

• What do people NOT like about Attributes?

• What DO people LIKE about Attributes?

Attributes don't add enough to gameplay to make a major difference. The idea is that you can use your points to customize your class for your personal preference, but that doesn't work. If you know what you're doing, in 90% of cases everyone on the same class would have VERY similar attributes, because at the end of the day there are stats you can get which are the best your class can have. Attributes didn't really add anything to the game rather confusion to new players, and the pain of adding them.

I wont vote but here's my 2¢ on attributes.

I really don't understand why some people dislike them. Specifically bastion players. As an old bastion player myself I've convinced myself that it's one of these reasons:

• Some people liked having classes inherently rollover others
  • In bastion (Early-Mid) it was Wizard,Goon, Delfblade or bust simply because other classes couldn't compete with the armor or DPS these classes had. Classes had no "feel" to them and it just came down to who had more armor or who could get off the first hit. . Is it perfectly balanced yet? Nope, but I'd take it over bastion balance any day.

• Extra commands, it burns!
  • Simple, they don't like having to type extra commands. Laziness is kinda ties in to #1

• They find it too complicated/can't find info
  • Maybe a better job of reminding people about attributes can be done, but for the most part it's pretty straight forward imo.

A portion of it is laziness, and I agree with that. But the introduction of attributes wasn't the major balance patch of the century. The reason balancing in Bastion was bad (at least for the first half) is because nobody gave a damn. The 3 most popular classes were overpowered. Until Delf came in, we didn't have that many people willing to put in the work to get a balanced game.

In my opinion at least, attributes seem like a waste of time. It's a cool concept, but they don't make as much of a difference as I had hoped.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

I see no poll option to keep pve so I am voting for that here

My bad the option to keep pve was to keep Aegis

 

[Archiepvp]

Attributes don't add enough to gameplay to make a major difference. The idea is that you can use your points to customize your class for your personal preference, but that doesn't work. If you know what you're doing, in 90% of cases everyone on the same class would have VERY similar attributes, because at the end of the day there are stats you can get which are the best your class can have. Attributes didn't really add anything to the game rather confusion to new players, and the pain of adding them.


A portion of it is laziness, and I agree with that. But the introduction of attributes wasn't the major balance patch of the century. The reason balancing in Bastion was bad (at least for the first half) is because nobody gave a damn. The 3 most popular classes were overpowered. Until Delf came in, we didn't have that many people willing to put in the work to get a balanced game.

In my opinion at least, attributes seem like a waste of time. It's a cool concept, but they don't make as much of a difference as I had hoped.

To me they can be compared to masteries in LoL - sure you can go 30 offense taric top lane but at the end of the day you'll still be just a Taric. I definitely don't dislike attributes though and a few classes would be rubbish without them IMO.

 

[Carbash]

I dont, and never have, liked mindless pvp just for the sake of pvping. Pvp should have a purpose. A pve world that allowed the townships to go to war with eachother would open the door to diplomacy, controlled chaos, and trade options, that would combine the best of both worlds. Things like death chests that allowed the enemy killer to access and tnt use on enemy regions, would encourage towns to go to war. All of these things would be a spectacle for new players, and would do wonders for encouraging them to join pvp oriented towns. While still allowing them to make the choice not to.

 

[agedbear]

I dont, and never have, liked mindless pvp just for the sake of pvping. Pvp should have a purpose. A pve world that allowed the townships to go to war with eachother would open the door to diplomacy, controlled chaos, and trade options, that would combine the best of both worlds. Things like death chests that allowed the enemy killer to access and tnt use on enemy regions, would encourage towns to go to war. All of these things would be a spectacle for new players, and would do wonders for encouraging them to join pvp oriented towns. While still allowing them to make the choice not to.

I think you will like the new towns plugin. It brings much of that to the table

 

[JupiterRome]

I dont, and never have, liked mindless pvp just for the sake of pvping. Pvp should have a purpose. A pve world that allowed the townships to go to war with eachother would open the door to diplomacy, controlled chaos, and trade options, that would combine the best of both worlds. Things like death chests that allowed the enemy killer to access and tnt use on enemy regions, would encourage towns to go to war. All of these things would be a spectacle for new players, and would do wonders for encouraging them to join pvp oriented towns. While still allowing them to make the choice not to.

PvP Always has a reason my friend
1. For Fun
2. For Shits and Giggles
3. For Bragging rights
4. (Not much this map but) For Loot

 

[JupiterRome]

Edit* The Main Reason I am against attributes is it opens up a door to a whole new world of Balance which is just, not gunna lie, Fucking hard as hell for balanced so less balance gets accomplished

 

[Trazil]

Attributes don't add enough to gameplay to make a major difference. The idea is that you can use your points to customize your class for your personal preference, but that doesn't work. If you know what you're doing, in 90% of cases everyone on the same class would have VERY similar attributes, because at the end of the day there are stats you can get which are the best your class can have. Attributes didn't really add anything to the game rather confusion to new players, and the pain of adding them.


A portion of it is laziness, and I agree with that. But the introduction of attributes wasn't the major balance patch of the century. The reason balancing in Bastion was bad (at least for the first half) is because nobody gave a damn. The 3 most popular classes were overpowered. Until Delf came in, we didn't have that many people willing to put in the work to get a balanced game.

In my opinion at least, attributes seem like a waste of time. It's a cool concept, but they don't make as much of a difference as I had hoped.

this right here tells everything.

attributes are not good at the moment in my opinion because:
1. not enough customization (and if you do customize it to much you die to everything else)
2. not explained well enough on the server, most new players don't want to look at a wiki to see everything at the start. They want to try the server for maybe 30mins-1hour then decide if they are going to play on it.
3.if you don't use them or add them terrible to die, and it takes money to reset them.

 

[Kainzo]

We're not voting for this - sorry.