[Politics] Why I think Ultra-Conservatives are childish

[Fjordsen]

''Listen to Fox News and educate yourself'' How is it possible to take someone coming with a statement like that serious.

''So he veto everything'' Last time I checked, it was the opposition of Obama who vetoed stuff in the congress...

''Obama is a communist and a Terrorist'' My 10 year old sister could make up a better statement than that.




''If you're going to school in America, you should have to. If you have a problem with that, go back where you came from''

Funny considering that US is all about diversity in society with many different cultures meshed into one free culture that accepts everyone. I mean seriously, swearing an oath every single morning to your country sounds like something you would do under Bismarck's rule in Prussia back in 1865 or Hitler's rule in Nazi-Germany during the 1930s.



''Hitler must go'' Oh boy, such hypocricy. The TeaParty's politics are on the same level as fascism and these guys compare a democrat who is supposedly a communist and socialist to HITLER who was Fascist? I am not sure what's wrong with those guys, but I'm pretty sure that Fascism and Communism are two complete opposites.

''A muslim terrorist (...) sorrounded by all his muslim terrorist, communist, socialist cronies hell-bent on destroying America.''
Again, another childish statement that makes no sense.

They preach freedom but their actions speak of extreme nationialism (Fascism). The fact that the TeaParty has represantives in the congress is the scariest part.


Discussion topic: What is your opinion on Nationialism?

 

[ZeZeene]

Tea is an awesome drink, but not really suitable for parties.

 

[ChunkyM0nk3y]

I find all of them too ridiculous to dignify them with a response, it's not like you could talk them out of their stupidity..
Just my opinion on that

 

[tigereye99999]

I am not Conservative. I am not Liberal. I am anti-stupid. I hate people whose only source of information is fox and I hate people whose only source of information is CNN. I wish we had a better Republic, but... we don't. It sucks that the only thing that matters to BOTH parties is getting the funds to be re-elected and winning over the american people. Obviously, everyone is not perfect and even I am totally biased and not super informed but people need to just become more educated. I PRAY that my generation(which appears to be against the government's actions right now) will step up and fix it.
Most likely not though because Congresses generation took part in the civil rights movement(right????) and look how they turned out.
Politics is stupid anyway but I enjoy talking about it. It makes me feel good.

 

[Carbash]

Tea is an awesome drink, but not really suitable for parties.

Unless its of the long island variety.

 

[j2gay]

View attachment 8131
''Listen to Fox News and educate yourself'' How is it possible to take someone coming with a statement like that serious.

''So he veto everything'' Last time I checked, it was the opposition of Obama who vetoed stuff in the congress...

''Obama is a communist and a Terrorist'' My 10 year old sister could make up a better statement than that.


View attachment 8130

''If you're going to school in America, you should have to. If you have a problem with that, go back where you came from''

Funny considering that US is all about diversity in society with many different cultures meshed into one free culture that accepts everyone. I mean seriously, swearing an oath every single morning to your country sounds like something you would do under Bismarck's rule in Prussia back in 1865 or Hitler's rule in Nazi-Germany during the 1930s.

View attachment 8129

''Hitler must go'' Oh boy, such hypocricy. The TeaParty's politics are on the same level as fascism and these guys compare a democrat who is supposedly a communist and socialist to HITLER who was Fascist? I am not sure what's wrong with those guys, but I'm pretty sure that Fascism and Communism are two complete opposites.

''A muslim terrorist (...) sorrounded by all his muslim terrorist, communist, socialist cronies hell-bent on destroying America.''
Again, another childish statement that makes no sense.

They preach freedom but their actions speak of extreme nationialism (Fascism). The fact that the TeaParty has represantives in the congress is the scariest part.


Discussion topic: What is your opinion on Nationialism?

The Republicans, Democrats, Tea Partiers, Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, ABC. These groups are all on the same team. They feign argument about what they are doing to blind you to the larger issues. None of them tell the truth, ever. They all have an agenda, a shared agenda, each has a role to play in forwarding that agenda. They each deliberately misinform their respective followers about certain issues so that the others can poke fun at the general public about the publics' lack of informed perspective. They do this in order to remind the public of how much they need "experts" government expert, media experts, all idiots trying to control other idiots either for their own financial benefit or for their self aggrandizement.

Information is considered dangerous to those who hold or who covet power(which is an illusion by the way). Because information is the only thing that remotely resembles actual power. Their deliberate game causes people, who have been deliberately misinformed, to make statements like those you quote, statements of intolerance and bigotry. It also causes deliberately misinformed people like yourself to make statements like those you have made here, statements of intolerance and bigotry. This works because "Ignorance and fanaticism is ever busy and needs feeding. Always it is feeding and gloating for more." ~Clarence Darrow

 

[Kainzo]

You can quote any web article to oppose and disgust yourself with either side.

Just use your brain.

 

[leftovers5]

I know your view of our right wingers is "ultra-conservative" but that is simply not the case. The majority of of conservative Americans don't define themselves with "ultra". We leave that to the ultra religious loons and a few others. Nationalism is a sensation ingrained in the identity of many countries and the people that reside in them; the US, Canada, Mexico, etc. Conservatives generally align with nationalistic values. Typically, Europe has not seen nationalism since WWII, which is why you are unfamiliar with the concept. Will try to write a more coherent response tomorrow when I am less sleep deprived.

 

[rfgordan]

The Republicans, Democrats, Tea Partiers, Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, ABC. These groups are all on the same team. They feign argument about what they are doing to blind you to the larger issues. None of them tell the truth, ever. They all have an agenda, a shared agenda, each has a role to play in forwarding that agenda. They each deliberately misinform their respective followers about certain issues so that the others can poke fun at the general public about the publics' lack of informed perspective. They do this in order to remind the public of how much they need "experts" government expert, media experts, all idiots trying to control other idiots either for their own financial benefit or for their self aggrandizement.

Information is considered dangerous to those who hold or who covet power(which is an illusion by the way). Because information is the only thing that remotely resembles actual power. Their deliberate game causes people, who have been deliberately misinformed, to make statements like those you quote, statements of intolerance and bigotry. It also causes deliberately misinformed people like yourself to make statements like those you have made here, statements of intolerance and bigotry. This works because "Ignorance and fanaticism is ever busy and needs feeding. Always it is feeding and gloating for more." ~Clarence Darrow

Here, take this tin foil hat!

 

[Fjordsen]

The Republicans, Democrats, Tea Partiers, Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, ABC. These groups are all on the same team. They feign argument about what they are doing to blind you to the larger issues. None of them tell the truth, ever. They all have an agenda, a shared agenda, each has a role to play in forwarding that agenda. They each deliberately misinform their respective followers about certain issues so that the others can poke fun at the general public about the publics' lack of informed perspective. They do this in order to remind the public of how much they need "experts" government expert, media experts, all idiots trying to control other idiots either for their own financial benefit or for their self aggrandizement.

Information is considered dangerous to those who hold or who covet power(which is an illusion by the way). Because information is the only thing that remotely resembles actual power. Their deliberate game causes people, who have been deliberately misinformed, to make statements like those you quote, statements of intolerance and bigotry. It also causes deliberately misinformed people like yourself to make statements like those you have made here, statements of intolerance and bigotry. This works because "Ignorance and fanaticism is ever busy and needs feeding. Always it is feeding and gloating for more." ~Clarence Darrow

Every poltician is more focused on beating their opponents and to make a name for themselves, so they eventually forget about fixing issues in society.

It's just like in the Roman Republic, the People stopped caring who that won each election because it was always the people who threw the most money into it who won. Then the Consuls would use all their time to delete what previous councils had done and then give gifts to the people so that the plebs would be positive towards them in future elections.

I know your view of our right wingers is "ultra-conservative" but that is simply not the case. The majority of of conservative Americans don't define themselves with "ultra". We leave that to the ultra religious loons and a few others. Nationalism is a sensation ingrained in the identity of many countries and the people that reside in them; the US, Canada, Mexico, etc. Conservatives generally align with nationalistic values. Typically, Europe has not seen nationalism since WWII, which is why you are unfamiliar with the concept. Will try to write a more coherent response tomorrow when I am less sleep deprived.

Nationialism started both World Wars and led to the largest genocide the world has seen. Visit the Auswitchz-Birkenau camp and museum to see where nationalism leads us.

 

[Nashah]

You will find good and bad people amongst almost any grouping. There will be some who will seem reasonable enough along with a myriad of idiots. I try to not bash any ideology based upon how people act because if you so desire you can always find someone who will give a bad name to a group of people.

I do agree that those who posted in those pictures are idiots though.

 

[j2gay]

Here, take this tin foil hat!

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[j2gay]

Every poltician is more focused on beating their opponents and to make a name for themselves, so they eventually forget about fixing issues in society.

It's just like in the Roman Republic, the People stopped caring who that won each election because it was always the people who threw the most money into it who won. Then the Consuls would use all their time to delete what previous councils had done and then give gifts to the people so that the plebs would be positive towards them in future elections.




Nationialism started both World Wars and led to the largest genocide the world has seen. Visit the Auswitchz-Birkenau camp and museum to see where nationalism leads us.

Your opinion of the Roman Republic is remarkably simplistic. You should really do some more research instead of taking your highschool text book/teacher s word for it.
Your statements about Nationalism equally misinformed and at the same time ironic. You so often speak of the virtues of socialism then conveniently forget that the Nazi party was the National Socialist Workers Party. At the same time you insult conservatism by quoting people who, while they may identify themselves or be identified by others as conservatives, are not expousing conservative principals. Now perhaps you have been misled as to this, or perhaps you have been trained that its OK to leave out or rearrange those facts which are inconvenient to your arguments. Whichever is the case you really need to take some time to do your own research and become informed.
I know these opinions have been given to you by people you trust so I bear you no I'll will for them. I only hope that you open your eyes and begin to understand that the only person who will ever have your best interest as their foremost thought is you. The only person responsible for you is you.

I must go for now. I will return later when I have more time.

 

[Fjordsen]

Your opinion of the Roman Republic is remarkably simplistic. You should really do some more research instead of taking your highschool text book/teacher s word for it.
Your statements about Nationalism equally misinformed and at the same time ironic. You so often speak of the virtues of socialism then conveniently forget that the Nazi party was the National Socialist Workers Party. At the same time you insult conservatism by quoting people who, while they may identify themselves or be identified by others as conservatives, are not expousing conservative principals. Now perhaps you have been misled as to this, or perhaps you have been trained that its OK to leave out or rearrange those facts which are inconvenient to your arguments. Whichever is the case you really need to take some time to do your own research and become informed.
I know these opinions have been given to you by people you trust so I bear you no I'll will for them. I only hope that you open your eyes and begin to understand that the only person who will ever have your best interest as their foremost thought is you. The only person responsible for you is you.

I must go for now. I will return later when I have more time.

I'm not sure how I can be against conservatism when I'm a supporter of the Norwegian Conservative party (Høyre, which also one this autumn's election yay) because of their school policy. Though it should be mentioned that Norwegian conservatives are liberal socialists compared to The Republican Party and The Democrats. Truth is, Northern Europe is so far away from US in politics that our right wing parties are liberals compared to any US party. That's why it's very hard to understand how people could possibly support not only the US conservatives, but the Ultra-Conservatives. Especially considering it's not too long ago since Bush.

To be hounest, the US needs more than 2 major political parties. Right now you're forced to vote either X or Y regarding any political issue. With competition trough more political parties more solutions are produced (Isn't that also one of the reasons capitalism worked so well compared to Communism?)

I made my example of Late Republican politics in Rome simplistic because I was about to go to school so I didn't have time to write anything complicated. For Roman Politics during the last 60-70 years of the Republic, I recommend Adrian Goldsworthy's book ''Caesar''. Should also mention that we don't learn about Roman politics or history in school as history is no prioritation in Norwegian schools. Though I'll qoute Markus Cicero on that and say: ''Those who don't learn the past are condemmned to repeat it''. Good thing I can specify parts of my education in History during Upper Secondary School.

 

[Kainzo]

It's easy to throw stones from a house of glass, no country has a "good" government right now, otherwise I'd be living there. There is no immediate fix for the US problems except extreme resolutions. That's not something so easily done and the majority of people are lazy and just trying to make it by. Keep the people busy, keep them poor, they won't rebel unless shit starts getting really bad.


Honestly, I find it all disgusting. A group of people are screaming to "leave us alone, we don't want this" and the other side is screaming "fall in line, cause its for the best, 'MERICA!"

I've seen this happen in history before and a lot of people died over it.

 

[j2gay]

I'm not sure how I can be against conservatism when I'm a supporter of the Norwegian Conservative party (Høyre, which also one this autumn's election yay) because of their school policy. Though it should be mentioned that Norwegian conservatives are liberal socialists compared to The Republican Party and The Democrats. Truth is, Northern Europe is so far away from US in politics that our right wing parties are liberals compared to any US party. That's why it's very hard to understand how people could possibly support not only the US conservatives, but the Ultra-Conservatives. Especially considering it's not too long ago since Bush.

To be hounest, the US needs more than 2 major political parties. Right now you're forced to vote either X or Y regarding any political issue. With competition trough more political parties more solutions are produced (Isn't that also one of the reasons capitalism worked so well compared to Communism?)

I made my example of Late Republican politics in Rome simplistic because I was about to go to school so I didn't have time to write anything complicated. For Roman Politics during the last 60-70 years of the Republic, I recommend Adrian Goldsworthy's book ''Caesar''. Should also mention that we don't learn about Roman politics or history in school as history is no prioritation in Norwegian schools. Though I'll qoute Markus Cicero on that and say: ''Those who don't learn the past are condemmned to repeat it''. Good thing I can specify parts of my education in History during Upper Secondary School.

Now you are speaking like someone who can be taken seriously. The point I have been trying to make is that when you insult people and attempt to trivialize them because you cant understand where they are coming from you end up sounding just as ridiculous as they do. It is extremely difficult to combat an undesirable behavior in others whilst engaging in it yourself.

I am glad you are taking the time to inform and educate yourself. Especially in the area of history, which most governments would wish forgotten. I would recommend that you read at least one other book on the same topic as the one you reference, you will find that history books are often heavily laced with the Authors opinions in ways that are often imperceptible to the reader. Also read as many primary documents, those written at the time, as you can possibly get your hands on. Society has a funny way of twisting history ever so slightly to support the current agenda.

It would be helpful for you to do some research into the basis for conservatism and what it really is, rather than having it explained to you by those who either do not understand it or wish to see it trampled. As you learn about history, and how often it has already been repeated, try to understand psychology as well. History only tells us what has happened, it doesn't tell us why.

I like that you quote Cicero. He is one of my favorites. It is important to note that he also says that Private property is the basis of human dignity and therefore must be the base of any just society.

I would like to point out to you that I am not a conservative. I am more in line with objectivism, and the epistemology of reason. As a philosopher I find it important to research and understand the arguments of others as well as I do my own beliefs before making determinations.

If you are or wish to be a student of history, perhaps you should read "Morae Encomium" (also known as the praise of folly) by Derisidius Erasmus. It was published in your country during the late 16th century. I think you will find it most interesting.

 

[leftovers5]

Visit the Auswitchz-Birkenau camp and museum to see where nationalism leads us.

Visit America to see where nationalism leads us. Hint: good places.

 

[leftovers5]

To be hounest, the US needs more than 2 major political parties. Right now you're forced to vote either X or Y regarding any political issue. With competition trough more political parties more solutions are produced (Isn't that also one of the reasons capitalism worked so well compared to Communism?)

In my honest opinion I think that the Fifth Party System that we have currently will not last for another 30 or so years. Many people are starting to gather around more libertarian opinions, and socially conservative people are being seen in fewer and fewer numbers (though, they are pretty vocal to be fair). That being said, there may be a shift in the Republican Party slightly towards the direction of social liberalism, though who's to say.

 

[ZeZeene]

I'd quote a series of posts here and tell those people to arguing ad hominem, but I don't want to waste the rest of my life clicking the 'Quote'-button.

Instead, have the Holy Pyramid of How To Argue Properly Without Sounding Like A Self-Centered Bigoted Idiot:

 

[j2gay]

Nice pyramid. Sometimes it is better to educate first and argue second. Especially when the base argument is fallicious.
In such cases you have a few options
1. Ignore the situation entirely, why waste time on someone who may not have the ability to understand
2. Cite the fallicious nature of the argument, pointing out the individual fallacies. In most cases this will enrage and incite the other side causing them to become more belligerent and driving them further toward ad hominem or ad ignorantium. In which case you will need to remove yourself from the situation, there is nothing to be gained by hurling fallacies back and forth.
3. Calmly steer the arguer, by calmly and rationally imparting whatever wisdom is needed, to a place where their argument is valid. Now they are being reasonable and valid arguments can be argued on their merits.
ALERT: You must never validate an invalid or irrational argument by engaging and addressing it. If you engage someone who's argument is not rooted in logic you validate it. It is impossible to argue logically an argument not rooted in logic.