Player run shops and their place in HC

[Nuin]

This was one of the main reasons I started Vesuvius on the last map as a merchant town, basically, just a hub for people to trade. However, removal of Runecraft and the charging for the Herogates makes it difficult.

Aside from that, having shops is ridiculous. There are not enough people on the server to warrant it, let alone stand there waiting for people to buy stuff from you.

Also, as a mod I had no idea that trade at spawn was illegal, but I can see a number of reasons why (like people interfering with trades).

 

[Ilsyde]

Just to chip in: you cannot stop trading at spawn with the current system. It doesn't take much for two people to meet near the Sanctum and make the exchange. They can even /msg each other (after using the trade channel to rouse interest) if both are afraid of a potential rule against these kind of transactions (or from robbers).
Trading at spawn is much faster, safer and cheaper. Unless you think that using recall costs more than using a herogate (well, it doesn't).
There is no way of monitoring this unless you place a mod on top of Sanctum to guard the place and watch every player like a hawk. Or fill the whole place with lava so dropped items will get obliterated.

Player driven shops will never work because there is constant demand for selling and buying goods but stores aren't open 24/7. I don't think any of us would expect shop owners to login to Minecraft just to stand around in their 8x8 shop for hours and hours each day.

Sure, there is a shop open most of the time but if you want a better deal or a faster transaction, another player (who could well be another shop owner, who knows) might be willing to make the trade in Sanctum. No shop can compete with that flexibility.

 

[Kaliven]

There has been an answer all along you know, and you already own it:

iconomy Sign shops:

Players have to stock it, other players can buy from it. PERFECT for this economy, I'm not sure why we don't use it other then "wanting ONLY face to face transactions" -- but it kinda slows down the game a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLi7rxPIMFo

Just code it so players are ONLY allowed to SELL items, not buy.

We don't allow them to be placed in in Sanct at ALL, anyone who places them gets a warning/ban

Then face to face trading happens in sanct, always on NPC shops are in towns.

Coin is still controlled by Bankers, and players though you could protect an area so that only official bankers could go in and DHX could be automated, with a Buy sign for golden bars, NO need for staff for that function.

No need for players to sit at their stalls for hours doing trades.

Simple and easy.

you MUST disable allowing shop owners to buy through signs or there's exploits, such as Selling back a diamond pick, buying new diamond pick (because it assumes all purchases are 100% durability)


I already set up blasphemy's shop, though we staff it.

Yes, each item sold is next to its block type if place able.

if we went to sign shops We'd have a 7/11 of goods for people to buy whenever, speeding up the game.


<Edit>

Oh And Seyton could stay as a sign shop in the Sanct 5rs for 5c

Just sayin...

 

[Chaz8591]

I like this idea.

 

[Saber993]

There has been an answer all along you know, and you already own it:

iconomy Sign shops:

Players have to stock it, other players can buy from it. PERFECT for this economy, I'm not sure why we don't use it other then "wanting ONLY face to face transactions" -- but it kinda slows down the game a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLi7rxPIMFo

Just code it so players are ONLY allowed to SELL items, not buy.

We don't allow them to be placed in in Sanct at ALL, anyone who places them gets a warning/ban

Then face to face trading happens in sanct, always on NPC shops are in towns.

Coin is still controlled by Bankers, and players though you could protect an area so that only official bankers could go in and DHX could be automated, with a Buy sign for golden bars, NO need for staff for that function.

No need for players to sit at their stalls for hours doing trades.

Simple and easy.

you MUST disable allowing shop owners to buy through signs or there's exploits, such as Selling back a diamond pick, buying new diamond pick (because it assumes all purchases are 100% durability)


I already set up blasphemy's shop, though we staff it.

Yes, each item sold is next to its block type if place able.

if we went to sign shops We'd have a 7/11 of goods for people to buy whenever, speeding up the game.


<Edit>

Oh And Seyton could stay as a sign shop in the Sanct 5rs for 5c

Just sayin...

I love this idea and have been for it from the start, however, Kainzo has stated that he doesn't like automated shops and that automatically rules this out =/

 

[Kaliven]

I love this idea and have been for it from the start, however, Kainzo has stated that he doesn't like automated shops and that automatically rules this out =/

Well they are still player run, and player stocked, so there is no giant floating machine of infinite loot somewhere allowing players to buy from NPC's who never run out,

coins stay exactly in the economy as they are now, its just shops can be run when you're not on.

 

[Ilsyde]

Like Saber said, a few people brought this up on the old forums (dagoth must've been one of them). The idea was shot down because it doesn't involve f2f interaction.

 

[wolfgang784]

It's a good idea but yea I think it makes it too easy. Every person on the map would have a shop selling something if it was as easy as that.

Although, I still can't think of a good way to get player run shops in the game more. I might have to start mine back up though, see if I can get people going to artemis to buy rather than spawn.

 

[Kaliven]

Like Saber said, a few people brought this up on the old forums (dagoth must've been one of them). The idea was shot down because it doesn't involve f2f interaction.

Last night the "server" said they were considering it.

 

[Angusward]

It's a good idea but yea I think it makes it too easy. Every person on the map would have a shop selling something if it was as easy as that.

Although, I still can't think of a good way to get player run shops in the game more. I might have to start mine back up though, see if I can get people going to artemis to buy rather than spawn.

Make people pay to set up a buy or sell order and pay a given amount every day to set up a shop. That way, if you can't make enough to profit, you don't have a shop. Otherwise, you can make one shop per city similar to a bank. If you went with the payment method:

Pay 500 coins to set up a shop; this is a one time fee, you never have to pay again even if your shop dies and you make a new one.

Pay 1 coin to set up a buy or sell sign.

Pay 8 coins per day to keep the signs operating. If you don't have enough money, the signs stop functioning until you do.

This opens up the potential for a "Trading Post" of sorts, where the curator(s) set up orders on behalf of the player for a flat fee or a percentage of the profits, as well as a shop.

 

[Ilsyde]

Last night the "server" said they were considering it.

Well, this would solve the "shops aren't open all the time" annoyance but also create new problems e.g. there would be no way of checking which automatic store has enough (or any) stock of a required item. So you might be using a herogate in vain. Also, no haggling - you wouldn't be able to get discounts or throw in valuable blocks if you don't have enough coin to buy what you need.

Don't really know what could be the proper solution (apart from disabling /spawn of course) without custom plugins, for example:

rough idea #1
/spawn1 - costs X+1 coins per use (where X is the cost of using a herogate)
/spawn2 - free to use but disables /money commands until the player uses a herogate or /recall

rough idea #2
/money -p NAME AMOUNT - only usable when both players are less than 10 blocks away from each other ; doesn't work in Sanctum

etc.

 

[DagothAgahnim]

I don't like automated shops, even when they are stocked by the players. it brings too many variables in, and removes player to player interaction.

There SHOULDNT be alot of successful shops, there should be a few that do very well and that's all, otherwise they all suffer.

Honestly, I think the best one is Blasphemy's at the moment, it's very well handled, they are on alot, and they have a huge stock, plus they also BUY items instead of JUST selling.

 

[Kaliven]

I don't like automated shops, even when they are stocked by the players. it brings too many variables in, and removes player to player interaction.

There SHOULDNT be alot of successful shops, there should be a few that do very well and that's all, otherwise they all suffer.

Honestly, I think the best one is Blasphemy's at the moment, it's very well handled, they are on alot, and they have a huge stock, plus they also BUY items instead of JUST selling.

Well thank you, that was the goal, to have a rpg style shop, where you could cash out, stock up, and go out again, just cause we're villains doesn't mean we can't contribute to the server.

even still I'd like to make more mundane things shop sellable, like dirt, cobble, logs... cactus, dear god we have so much cactus

 

[Diavolo1988]

In my opinion it would be quite fun if people actually traveled to neighbour cities to trade with eachother. Having to often travel to neighbour cities would make people actually make railroads, not like things are now, since only 2 cities are connected. Also, I think that there are way too many towns existing. People make small towns here and there insteadof joining the already existing towns.

If trading at spawn was outlawed (or just it was impossible to pick up stuff from the ground at spawn, only possible from chests) there would be much more roleplaying in the game. The server would be more "hardcore". Towns would actually have to build railroads and cooperate. Being at war with other towns or being a citizen of an "evil" town that made you unable to trade with certain big towns close by would pose a problem, and the "villains" would have to trade with eachother. All this would make the server more fun imo. Robbers would also have it better since they could rob "trading caravans" that were trying to get to other towns on trading routes. Also the gold market would not be global either like its now, only cities close to each other would compete with eachother.

There are probably even more things that would be great with making it illegal/impossible to trade at spawn, but those are a few of the benefits. I think that together with the cost on herogates it would make the server a lot more immersive and fun.

 

[AlexDaParrot]

Someone brought up a shop warp the other day, I think that would be one of the best ways. Players would need to be out of their element to keep their shop stocked and actively manning it, yet it would give a convenient place for people to go to find the goods they want. Think of it was a server market district.

This would
1. Encourage competition (Close shops competing for sales)
2. Discourage spawn trading (Why go to the spawn for an illegal trade when a whole line of shops want to sell you their good)
3. Almost add a shop keeper class in its own right
4. Not be as risky for people trying to buy and sell goods on the open market, since shops otherwise would only work if you walk to the town, which as of current is dangerous and thus not feasible for the majority of the population.
5. Be a good alternative to player sign shops, and would do the same thing, just a person would have to actually be in their shop for it to work, thus keeping the f2f interactions.


I understand the point brought up above me with railroads and interconnected roads, but in all honesty then the server feels so...limited. Especially as kingdoms start to get established and take up a good amount of room, trading between neighbor cities becomes much less of a likelihood.

Whereas if we had town shops in a warp area, towns would start to specialize in certain materials to generate more income. If town A has a more efficient cactus farmer, mob killer, mining form (Use of storage minecarts to relay resources, team mining), or harvesting method (Reed farms, tree farms) it would give that town a comparative advantage over Town B. Town B, however, would be better at something than town A because they can produce something as well at a lower cost in time or investment.

I think this would make the economy more centered and focused as well as give rise to lower prices. If towns of 10+ people are competing against each other versus individuals, more supply and thus more bartering power is given to that unit of 10 people. This would encourage building as well because then people would be able to purchase the resources at a respectable cost and then use them to build, instead of bartering for half an hour for one stack of wood with a lone seller, they could go to the town shops and have shops competing for their businesses with their larger stocks and inherently lower prices.

[Side Note] I was only going to write 2 sentences, but I guess I wrote more than that.

 

[Kaliven]

<Kaliven> oh kainxo, Class idea: Sign shops for merchant class
<Kaliven> Kainzo
<Kaliven> lol sorry
<Kainzo> yeh
<Kainzo> definitely
<Kaliven> so if you want to be a merchant, you lose all other cool stuff
<Kaliven> but you get sign shops
<Kainzo> Its going to cost X Coin to drop your class
<Kainzo> and get another btw


*plays FF1 level up music*

 

[Spongiform]

I think towns should be able to set up a marketplace with shop plots similar to housing. Towns then allow the players to have a plot and set up a shop with signs in it.

Each player then has to purchase a license from admins for each sign that has a significant, one time cost.

Perhaps a command to list shops that shows who is selling what, where, for how much, and what quantity they have in stock.

/shop list diamonds
Bob in Blasphemy is selling diamonds for 4c and has 47 in stock.
Joe in Valhalla is selling diamonds for 3c and has 2 in stock.

I vote no shop stalls allowed in DH, only in player run towns.

4. Not be as risky for people trying to buy and sell goods on the open market, since shops otherwise would only work if you walk to the town, which as of current is dangerous and thus not feasible for the majority of the population.

Danger is part of the game. Even with herogates off and pvp rampant we've had no shortage of customers coming to Blasphemy.

The Blasphemy Adventure shop has been successful because we have a huge inventory of almost everything available for reasonable prices. It's a one stop shop to sell your goods and buy what you need.

We also buy in bulk (albeit at reduced rates) but for your average player it's a much better coin to time ratio then trying to hawk their wares in trade.

 

[Dazureus]

overall, I think the ideal of maximing p2p interaction is a good one. That's part of the reason I brought up warps in suggestions. I've been recently obsessed over starting a shop, and if it was restricted to only the person who ran the shops and their employees, and kept out of the general public, there would be both increased trade and player interaction. Setup fees, admin or mod approval and probably cooldown still apply. I personally like this better than autoshop signs, but instant travel is apparently Herocraft's worst enemy, and anything promoting trade is ok by me.