Suggestion Paladin

[alexhoff1]

The Balance team is merely a suggestion board invisible to other users.

Members of the team post their suggestions in that board, and then either get agreed with or disagreed with by other members of the team. Sometimes, Kainzo will agree or disagree with stuff.

Occasionally, a decision is made towards balance. A general consensus if you will. (By the team)




And then the thread dies.

It rots.

And is forgotten.


This is the state of the "balance team", and always has been.


When I was "balancing" Herocraft, I did not use the balance team forums. I sat on test server, modifying numbers and adding skills. I sat around all day testing balance changes. Whether they be small ones, or big ones part of a class rework. As I was doing this, I would post my "changelog" on the balance forums every so often, but it was nothing more than a readonly list that was only modifiable by the big man himself. And sometimes, I didn't even let him modify it. I would argue the point and he'd never get back to me, so I never "reverted" or "altered" my changes.

Don't get me wrong, the team back then would say stuff, and I would read it. But it was rare that I was ever persuaded to make major changes. Just small tweaks. The true "Balance Team" back then, was anyone that logged onto the test server and fought each other while I watched or participated. I spoke with these people, I tested with these people, I balanced with these people. Sometimes these people were on the "real" balance team, and a lot of the time, they weren't.


However during Haven, I got a little to ahead of myself. Rather than posting changelogs and requesting even the smallest of feedbacks, I simply put changes into a folder that gabizou would push during restarts. As far as he, or anyone else was aware, I was just putting bug fixes and small tweaks in. And sometimes, that was the case. Now, I wasn't doing anything sketchy here, I was still doing legitimate balance. (I remember Burkes speccing out of Pyro because I was playing it and all I did was nerf the living fuck out of it.) But I was avoiding ALL of the hoops involved in this ridiculous server so that I could get the balance out to the community as quickly as possible and without any bullshit.

Until one day, I made changes to the base equipment weight for a few classes.

You all FLIPPED your fucking SHIT. The server was going nuts and all eyes were pointed on me. The rage, the betrayal, the whining. It was overwhelming and deeply demotivating. It was as if I had shot 12 children in front of you all with a smile on my face. Kainzo saw what I was doing, and was not pleased. Gabizou was no longer going to be "clear" to push anything I had waiting for him. I would now have to use the god damn shitty ass suggestion forums to get anything done, and once again, everything needed to pass through Kainzo.

And you know what? I said fuck it. I don't want to do it anymore. It's not worth my time. And so I stopped. I made a few posts on the balance forums stating what I felt "needed to be done" and I basically packed up my bags. No more bug fixes, no more balance.

This is why balance comes so slowly. This is why things are tested so haphazardly. Because there is nobody at the top who gives enough of a shit to actually put effort into the balance and stability of the server. If it's broken? Fuck it, remove the skill! (PlagueBomb) If people cry about it, fuck it! Remove the skill! (SuperJump). If it's imbalanced, Fuck it! Too much of a pain!

Until Kainzo changes his priorities, or finds someone else to fill the role, nothing is going to change. Paladin may get some tweaks in a week, or maybe in two months. Skills will be broke, and if they don't get fixed, they'll just be removed. This is the reality. This is your fate.

Despite us having our differences, we agree on some things.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

I feel bad that I was one of the people that drove @Delfofthebla nuts after he fixed blood mage and called it delfmage. That class got popular after the revamp and it was good for the class. I understand where delf is coming from when he heard about bitching after every balance update. My ts was full of bitching bc their classes now sucked and they had to change out.

Once the community bitches too much the person just wants to quit and that's what the whole server did to delf. Sorry it happened like that but now as a community were fucked with no balance updates and towns stacking op classes that can beat anything and very broken. It makes the server not enjoyable trying to get the objective and hold it off.

I don't see a point to do the conquest thing at all until balancing becomes a number 1 priority. Hopefully the admins and Kainzo will wise up and see this is a real problem to the server instead of making more pvp objectives that will just be killed by these op classes.

And to make it clear this server is extremely fun and I donated my hard earned money to this server to make it succeed. But sometimes you need to take care of the community first before you want to implement your great idea for custom weapons and armor.

 

[ytiggidmas]

The Balance team is merely a suggestion board invisible to other users.

Members of the team post their suggestions in that board, and then either get agreed with or disagreed with by other members of the team. Sometimes, Kainzo will agree or disagree with stuff.

Occasionally, a decision is made towards balance. A general consensus if you will. (By the team)




And then the thread dies.

It rots.

And is forgotten.


This is the state of the "balance team", and always has been.


When I was "balancing" Herocraft, I did not use the balance team forums. I sat on test server, modifying numbers and adding skills. I sat around all day testing balance changes. Whether they be small ones, or big ones part of a class rework. As I was doing this, I would post my "changelog" on the balance forums every so often, but it was nothing more than a readonly list that was only modifiable by the big man himself. And sometimes, I didn't even let him modify it. I would argue the point and he'd never get back to me, so I never "reverted" or "altered" my changes.

Don't get me wrong, the team back then would say stuff, and I would read it. But it was rare that I was ever persuaded to make major changes. Just small tweaks. The true "Balance Team" back then, was anyone that logged onto the test server and fought each other while I watched or participated. I spoke with these people, I tested with these people, I balanced with these people. Sometimes these people were on the "real" balance team, and a lot of the time, they weren't.


However during Haven, I got a little bit too ahead of myself. I was actively playing, so I didn't wish to go through the usual BS of changelog / test / tweak / changelog / wait for Kainzo to push changes in 3 weeks / Rinse / Repeat.

Rather than posting changelogs and requesting even the smallest of feedbacks, I simply put changes into a folder that gabizou would push during restarts. As far as he, or anyone else was aware, I was just putting bug fixes and small tweaks in. And sometimes, that was the case. Now, I wasn't doing anything sketchy here, I was still doing legitimate balance. But due to Attributes being rushed as fuck, there was so much left untested. I used my play experience on the real server as the "test" experience, and pushed changes rapidly as I felt necessary.

I actually remember @BurKeYzZ speccing out of Pyro because I was playing it too, and all I did was nerf the living fuck out of it (Which he hated). But I was avoiding ALL of the hoops involved in this ridiculous server so that I could get the balance that I felt was necessary out to the community as quickly as possible and without any bullshit.

Until one day, I made changes to the base equipment weight for a few classes.

You all FLIPPED your fucking SHIT. The server was foaming at the mouth and all eyes were pointed on me. The rage, the betrayal, the whining. It was overwhelming and deeply demotivating. It was as if I had shot 12 children in front of you all with a smile on my face. Kainzo saw what I was doing, and was not pleased. gabizou was no longer going to be "clear" to push anything I had waiting for him. I would now have to use the god damn shitty ass suggestion forums to get anything done, and once again, everything needed to pass through Kainzo.

And you know what? I said fuck it. I don't want to do it anymore. It's not worth my time. And so I stopped. I made a few posts on the balance forums stating what I felt "needed to be done" and I basically packed up my bags. No more bug fixes, no more balance.

This is why balance comes so slowly. This is why things are tested so haphazardly. Because there is nobody at the top who gives enough of a shit to actually put effort into the balance and stability of the server. If it's broken? Fuck it, remove the skill! (PlagueBomb) If people cry about it, fuck it! Remove the skill! (SuperJump). If it's imbalanced, Fuck it! Too much of a pain!

Until Kainzo changes his priorities, or finds someone else to fill the role, nothing is going to change. Paladin may get some tweaks in a week, or maybe in two months. Skills will be broke, and if they don't get fixed, they'll just be removed. This is the reality. This is your fate.

If you want to see it yourself just look at all the balance team apps left unattended to, there's plenty of people who know exactly what the fuck they're talking about in terms of balance who have their balance apps ignored. Kainzo needs to open his legs to balance, and have his balanced server cherry crushed. two weeks into the new map and no balance changes? Hm, let's just have another haven why don't we? Sirdemonic said it right, and it's pathetic that we even waste our time with suggestions.

 

[Egorh]

If you want to see it yourself just look at all the balance team apps left unattended to, there's plenty of people who know exactly what the fuck they're talking about in terms of balance who have their balance apps ignored. Kainzo needs to open his legs to balance, and have his balanced server cherry crushed. two weeks into the new map and no balance changes? Hm, let's just have another haven why don't we? Sirdemonic said it right, and it's pathetic that we even waste our time with suggestions.

Accepting more people into balance team wont really do anything. It will just be the same thing; people posting suggestions and changes but kainzo never looks at them

 

[Sirdemonic3]

Accepting more people into balance team wont really do anything. It will just be the same thing; people posting suggestions and changes but kainzo never looks at them

this

 

[Cypher123]

I agree with everything in this thread. You know what players love more than xp boosts? Clarity between the people working on the game and the players. You have a balance team for a reason, to take work load off of yourself and let them figure out what needs to be tweaked/buffed/nerfed. Just please implement their suggestions and changes. I'd prefer to have things balanced before you keep pushing out new things that change balance even more.

Granted some people will rage because they can't 1v2 with their eyes closed anymore as a pally but hey it's for the greater good. Most people play games because it's an even playing field, and right now it doesn't feel like that at all.

Just baffles me, lets give paladins good dps and mobility while letting them be the tankiest class as well with heals... gg

So why does a paladin, which has almost 40 more armor weight and 50 more health also hit for the exact same amount of damage as a disciple. Both classes perform semi the same point in groups, heal party members and yourself and pull in important targets to focus them down while protecting the dps(support). The point behind a support class is that they need other classes aka dps classes to kill people while you as the paladin help keep them alive and protect them. I don't understand logic anymore I guess, lets give the tankiest class with multiple survive-ability skills dps that almost rivals classes that dont have survivability/heals/tankiness.

I remember the old paladin back in the day on herocraft where your job was get a knockback sword and peel for your dps, that made 100X more sense than the current iteration of paladin.

 

[LightningCape]

The Balance team is merely a suggestion board invisible to other users.

Members of the team post their suggestions in that board, and then either get agreed with or disagreed with by other members of the team. Sometimes, Kainzo will agree or disagree with stuff.

Occasionally, a decision is made towards balance. A general consensus if you will. (By the team)




And then the thread dies.

It rots.

And is forgotten.


This is the state of the "balance team", and always has been.


When I was "balancing" Herocraft, I did not use the balance team forums. I sat on test server, modifying numbers and adding skills. I sat around all day testing balance changes. Whether they be small ones, or big ones part of a class rework. As I was doing this, I would post my "changelog" on the balance forums every so often, but it was nothing more than a readonly list that was only modifiable by the big man himself. And sometimes, I didn't even let him modify it. I would argue the point and he'd never get back to me, so I never "reverted" or "altered" my changes.

Don't get me wrong, the team back then would say stuff, and I would read it. But it was rare that I was ever persuaded to make major changes. Just small tweaks. The true "Balance Team" back then, was anyone that logged onto the test server and fought each other while I watched or participated. I spoke with these people, I tested with these people, I balanced with these people. Sometimes these people were on the "real" balance team, and a lot of the time, they weren't.


However during Haven, I got a little bit too ahead of myself. I was actively playing, so I didn't wish to go through the usual BS of changelog / test / tweak / changelog / wait for Kainzo to push changes in 3 weeks / Rinse / Repeat.

Rather than posting changelogs and requesting even the smallest of feedbacks, I simply put changes into a folder that gabizou would push during restarts. As far as he, or anyone else was aware, I was just putting bug fixes and small tweaks in. And sometimes, that was the case. Now, I wasn't doing anything sketchy here, I was still doing legitimate balance. But due to Attributes being rushed as fuck, there was so much left untested. I used my play experience on the real server as the "test" experience, and pushed changes rapidly as I felt necessary.

I actually remember @BurKeYzZ speccing out of Pyro because I was playing it too, and all I did was nerf the living fuck out of it (Which he hated). But I was avoiding ALL of the hoops involved in this ridiculous server so that I could get the balance that I felt was necessary out to the community as quickly as possible and without any bullshit.

Until one day, I made changes to the base equipment weight for a few classes.

You all FLIPPED your fucking SHIT. The server was foaming at the mouth and all eyes were pointed on me. The rage, the betrayal, the whining. It was overwhelming and deeply demotivating. It was as if I had shot 12 children in front of you all with a smile on my face. Kainzo saw what I was doing, and was not pleased. gabizou was no longer going to be "clear" to push anything I had waiting for him. I would now have to use the god damn shitty ass suggestion forums to get anything done, and once again, everything needed to pass through Kainzo.

And you know what? I said fuck it. I don't want to do it anymore. It's not worth my time. And so I stopped. I made a few posts on the balance forums stating what I felt "needed to be done" and I basically packed up my bags. No more bug fixes, no more balance.

This is why balance comes so slowly. This is why things are tested so haphazardly. Because there is nobody at the top who gives enough of a shit to actually put effort into the balance and stability of the server. If it's broken? Fuck it, remove the skill! (PlagueBomb) If people cry about it, fuck it! Remove the skill! (SuperJump). If it's imbalanced, Fuck it! Too much of a pain!

Until Kainzo changes his priorities, or finds someone else to fill the role, nothing is going to change. Paladin may get some tweaks in a week, or maybe in two months. Skills will be broke, and if they don't get fixed, they'll just be removed. This is the reality. This is your fate.

Sometimes I don't feel like reading your walls of text and just skip to the end but this...was amazing

 

[Sirdemonic3]

Sometimes I don't feel like reading your walls of text and just skip to the end but this...was amazing

i love all of delfs walls mate

 

[Dwarfers]

As malikdanab said earlier, there isn't anyone motivated enough/someone with enough freetime to focus on the balance team while having permission to push changes on test server. I suggest balance team have access to test server and be able to use commands to adjust the existing skills and stats so we don't have to wait weeks or months like now for the limited amount of people who have access to such things.

From what I have seen, Kainzo is a busy person and not to mention the owner of the server which means he has more stuff to deal with than any of us. I haven't heard who else is capable of pushing changes on test other than him/admins and most of the time the admins are busy or are on vacation for a month. The staff from my perspective has SHRUNK in the past few months and lately there's only 1-2 admins on at a time and most of the time it's Xanipher. Plus, remember that this map started recently and many changes have been announced to come which from how it looks they require working on daily which just adds to the work the admins/staff has.

I suggest there be Senior Balance team members with time/dedication/permission to work on making balance changes only on TEST and not being able to push it LIVE without Kainzo.

 

[lioIIoil]

How is shit OP? I never understood that.

It was a serious question. Why am i getting f palms? The person who should be getting f palms is 96alex for saying that shit is op. Shit obviously isn't OP.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

Read the thread @Johnbaur

 

[GangstaKl3n]

It was a serious question. Why am i getting f palms? The person who should be getting f palms is 96alex for saying that shit is op. Shit obviously isn't OP.

You're getting F-palms because your joke wasn't funny.

 

[lioIIoil]

You're getting F-palms because your joke wasn't funny.

It wasnt a joke
Honestly I don't give a shit about who gives me f palms. I have more to worry about than forum ratings.

 

[Halizu]

It was a serious question. Why am i getting f palms? The person who should be getting f palms is 96alex for saying that shit is op. Shit obviously isn't OP.

You're so cool! You know what my old account was!

 

[Glacial_Reign]

Thanks @Johnbaur for derailing the thread on a serious matter with balancing.

 

[lioIIoil]

Ah, I never realized how easy it was to start a flame war.
People on the internet just want to flame
Actually, go back and read the post I tried to make a joke, it may have not been very funny but you guys started flaming me with ratings.
-------
On the other hand my contribution to this thread is that I think paladin would be fixed if:
-Holy Steed was removed.
-Divine Stun base stun 1.5 -> 0.75
-Maybe raise Divine Stuns CHA scaling a VERY tiny amount

This would force paladins who want an ("OP as Shit") 1.5 second stun to have to put more points in CHA.

I have another point to make: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin_(character_class)

Read the class description from many other popular games. A paladin is generally a heavily armored tank with supportive abilities and divine heals. I read all the descriptions from other games and besides WoW, it mentions nothing of horses.

Someone mentioned that paladins rode horses in history. I looked at this link, which might not accurate: I http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin
It talks about paladins from history but mentions nothing of horses. I am not saying that paladins did not ride on horses, but if all paladins rode horses surely it would have information on it.

So why are we giving paladins horses? They are heavily armored. They are supposed to be slow and not agile, that is the weakness of the class.

They have ok damage, some cc, good mobility out of combat, great heals, damage reductions, and invulnerability.

 

[lioIIoil]

cameronduke did you even read my post? I don't think you had time to.

 

[JupiterRome]

TBH Why Not Just like Nerf the Hell outta STrike and Give Paladin Healer Melee? Considering it can Outtank/Outheal some healers....

 

[Xhazed]

cameronduke did you even read my post? I don't think you had time to.

Lol i did why? Are you like mad that i rated u an post funny? Do u an care about an rating kdr

 

[Wild_Porygon]

Lol i did why? Are you like mad that i rated u an post funny? Do u an care about an rating kdr

werd dawg