Suggestion Once again classes need to be fixed.

[pandaman7]

Just going to but in here and ask if you have played Bloodmage ever? Just a friendly question xD

Yes, numerous times on the test server. I've tested all of their skills there in 1v1s and small fights. I also went bm on the main server for a bit. And I also have talked to trusty nonamemajdeath who knows BM the best on the server.

As for the rest, nona was the one who thought that Thickenblood was useless and that constrict should replace it. I'll let him comment on that when he sees this.

As for the balance team, I don't trust it. The ideal circumstances would be a team of people that don't pvp on the main server and have no bias at all, but balance it perfectly based off of statistics and fights on the test server. However, that is never going to happen.

 

[joshtsai]

I wouldn't say that Nona knows it best, granted he knows a lot and plays a mean BM but Delf did recode it.

As to the changes I have fought vs a new BM so I can't say anything 100% but from what I saw from Glob's video, it's to much, and the changes mentioned above should fix it.

 

[Warmachinexp]

Why does the title say classes?

 

[joshtsai]

Disciple needs divine word.

 

[JupiterRome]

So you are sitting here telling me the damage is fair for being under the healing tree? I have read that thread and I supported an argument with numbers which may have been wrong but the boilblood numbers were correct. Me and nonamemajdeath are pretty good friends and he knows it is OP as hell. Sure the BM system is better but it shouldn't have the damage and healing it can pull off.

Ok, So u say the damage is OP being under the healing tree? If I do recall Paladin has fullheal and absolution, So If I read and process what your saying right it is that Healers shouldnt do a lot of damage? Then My argument is that Warriors should not have heals! Staff try to make it fair and as balanced as possible, BloodMage does sound hard to use from what I've heard, mabye your only fighting people who know how to use it good?

(I only brought up the paladin crap because I've seen you be paladin numerous times)

 

[Licksterboy]

Bloodmage is in a pretty rough state at the moment, but to be honest, it was a really strong class before, surely noname and delf can agree. Obviously, now the class has more utility.

As for some comments I have seen, I think thicken blood is a really nice addition, a skill was finally introduced to counter stamina classes, just like several classes have silences to counter caster classes.

I can definitely say you can expect a healing reduction on bloodbond and most likely some number changes on other skills, like kainzo said, the class was just reworked so it WILL have changes.

Furthermore, I have to make this comment, for those who are calling this class "delfmage", please rethink what you're saying, I am extremely pleased with what the class has come to, it is finally unique and much more support like than it ever has been. I am just happy these reworks were able to happen.

 

[JupiterRome]

Bloodmage is in a pretty rough state at the moment, but to be honest, it was a really strong class before, surely noname and delf can agree. Obviously, now the class has more utility.

As for some comments I have seen, I think thicken blood is a really nice addition, a skill was finally introduced to counter stamina classes, just like several classes have silences to counter caster classes.

I can definitely say you can expect a healing reduction on bloodbond and most likely some number changes on other skills, like kainzo said, the class was just reworked so it WILL have changes.

Furthermore, I have to make this comment, for those who are calling this class "delfmage", please rethink what you're saying, I am extremely pleased with what the class has come to, it is finally unique and much more support like than it ever has been. I am just happy these reworks were able to

Go lick he understands!!!

 

[JupiterRome]

Thanks for editing out the part where I said "Old bloodmage".
I agree that AoE Bloodboil is absurd. Bloodboil shouldn't heal.
Type casting classes based on paths/trees doesn't work. Certainly has been brought against Bloodmage before and all attempts have failed.
I have mastered Bloodmage in game and played against nona. Just fyi

werwew190 Why would u edit a reply thing?

 

[Delfofthebla]

Here are a few changes I would make:

• As warmachine stated bloodbond needs to be decreased. Simply because a boilblood can 'full heal' a party. I would say somewhere around 20% as he stated would be a fine fix.

• Another change I would say is to remove thickenblood and give bloodmage constrict again. Constrict was a better skill for them and was way better than thickenblood. The slowness wasn't incredibly overpowered considering it was what, slowness 1? But it allowed the bm/rest of the party to catch up to any class rather than only a select few (warriors and ninjas).

• In return for that I would say decrease the amount healed from SiphonBlood to 80-100% + 6% per blood union. Bloodmages can simply outheal a lot of damage using SiphonBlood every 4 seconds. Of course this is not really practical due to mana costs, though it is still a lot of healing.

• Change Bloodboil. Make it a warm up skill first of all and make it so that the damage is decreased to the other targets. So it would be 220 dmg to the initial target, then the targets within range of them would receive 110 damage as well. This would reduce the total amount healed to the party, but would still be a good AoE for group fights. Getting to 3 blood unions is fairly easy and good bloodmages should be able to get more than one off per fight. I'm not entirely sure on what the range of the AoE is, but if it is fairly large the damage could be changed even more.

Not sure if these would be perfect changes, of course they would need to be tweaked after more testing... But in my opinion Bloodmage should have been finely tuned before revamp #3, because it obviously was not.

I spend a lot of time developing for Herocraft. Whether it be balancing, bug fixing, or ability re-coding, I spend at least 20 hours a week of my free time devoted to the server. While I understand that I am not perfect, and am prone to make some mistakes at time, I believe that I am doing good for the server. I also think I'm a pretty understandable guy when it comes to these kinds of things. If I know a class of mine is imbalanced, I will fix it. You won't even ever have to say anything--chances are I already know. I knew BoiBlood + BloodBond was broken as soon as Gabi threw his event in Forgelight. It was already going to be fixed.

When I win a fight in Herocraft, I want it to be because of my skill, not because of some outside source, such as hacks or imbalanced classes. I want to win because of -me-. However, I also want to have fun while I do it, which is why I have revamped a couple classes so far. Revamping something essentially puts you back at square 1, and I'm not perfect enough to get it right from the start. It's completely understandable if you or anyone else does not agree with my statements, but I'm sticking by them.

Balance is not as easy as people like to think, and it is very easy for certain things to go under the radar. Not everyone on the balance team has a large amount of time, or reason to actually be dedicated to their position. You're lucky that even I am dedicated enough to put in the work I do.

You mentioned that Bloodmage should have been more finely tuned before revamp #3. I'd like to go out and say that a lot of time was spent finely tuning Bloodmage before the update. Several hours of several days were devoted to completing the class. I personally tested over a hundred 1v1 and 2v2 situations, and also got in those few teamfights you partook in as well.

Those teamfights against your group on the test server that you all are so proud of, were done so that we could fine-tune certain numbers. And despite the fact that you say the class didn't have the numbers that it has now during that time--they honestly weren't very far off. Numbers are very deceiving things...

Running into issues like these are just part of playing on an ever-changing server. They can happen at any time, and affect any random number of people. It could be my fault, it could be Kainzo's fault, it could be your fault. No matter what game, what server, or how many people are devoted to developing things, this kind of situation will always pop up. It's just part of game design. I acknowledge that I screwed up in regards to the BloodBond+BoilBlood combo, but I do not believe that the class is "broken" in it's current state. The combo only strongly affects a very rare situation that you've yet to even witness first hand.

Despite the fact that I've been extremely overworked with my college Senior Project, I've taken very precious time out of my very few days remaining to ensure that Bloodmage was a working, complete, balanced class for the update.

Yes, I missed some things. But are these issues as big as you make them out to be? No. The only reason you are as upset as you are is because Umbra happened to have a couple of Bloodmages with them during a teamfight, and your group was forced to fight against them. But in addition to the two bloodmages we had, we also had two beguilers, two paladins (with two layhands mind you.) two samurais, a wizard, and a ninja. If you had that kind of team comp, or perhaps if nona was with you last night, I think you would have had a much different opinion right now. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.

It's a real shame I didn't record that fight, because that way you could have seen the numbers in real time. It wasn't the Bloodmages that won that fight--it was the paladins, beguilers, samurais and wizard. The people you claim to have "bursted down" and that got "healed to full by bloodmage" were actually healed by our paladins--with layhands. An ability that just got nerfed to crap and still won us the fight. But whatever, you're right, it was probably just the Bloodmages.

Honestly though, It doesn't even matter, we've already addressed the situation. The changes that are coming in the next update will prevent a Bloodmage from ever being able to "full heal" off of BoilBlood. The healing in general from BloodBond has also been reduced. With the additional bug fix on BloodUnion, this will completely fix the issues you are concerned about.

Now, I need to get back to work on my senior project, so I'll have to opt out of addressing your suggestions directly, and for now just say this:



I disagree.

 

[JacobBurkey]

werwew190 Why would u edit a reply thing?

leav

 

[Arturec]

I played BM, and really, it isn't that OP. A bloodmage in 1v1s isnt the best 1v1er anymore, not like the old bloodmage, but it still is pretty good. Yes, the heals from Boilblood + Bloodbond are good, in fact, they're great, but 2 bloodmages in a 2v2 against almost anybody probably would still have a tough time winning. Their Bloodboil is a Pulse that does initial damage and then the same damage over time, plus without a warmup, but to be frank, incorrectly using bloodboil WILL throw the fight out the window.

Its cost is pretty balanced for what it does, seeing how you are forced to choose between a 40% heal on somebody else, or a 200 dmg aoe that will heal for 35% of the damage dealt, or a +6% heal per stack per 4 seconds on your SiphonBlood + Bleed on CombustBlood + Bonus healing on infusion, it is actually a harder choice than you think. Having a bloodmage right now may make or break a fight, but really, most duelist classes can easily burst down a bloodmage, seeing how it uses HP to regain mana to continue fighting, and you must remember that every time you use an ability now it will force you to wait 1s in between, meaning you must choose what spell to use every time you are ABLE to use one. Truly, Bloodmages are very good, but lots of classes are really good too.

Yes, the AOE heal should be nerfed due to BM stacking, but other than that, it DOES hurt itself in order to do damage after a certain amount of time (Maybe 5 spells before you lose 100% of your mana, without bloodbond working at the same time) meaning that a bloodmage is pouring around 60-75 hp per spell after that. (To recover mana for a spell, because I've noticed in fights I do run out of mana if I keep casting spells to keep my health and damage up) (Notice how 60-75 hp because Transfuse takes 90 and gives 30, so that's a 3:1 for health to mana, and a spell doesn't cost 30 mana, so I had to lower it a bit)
In reality I haven't been blown away by the OP-ness of the class, considering how every rogue spec has a silence, paladins have a stun, pyro has a silence, and so many more counters to the class exist.
In reality the new BM is not gamebreakingly OP right now, but it IS very good.
I think the true vision of the class is to promote smarter play and better niche roles in a party.

Tl;DR - Nerf Irelia, l2p Poppy. (Not really, screw the people who look for TL;DRs, read the god damned post or get out lol)

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

This is a solid case of people seeing too many changes to a class that was rarely played (for good reason, it was unworkable) and screaming "OP!" now that it's actually a viable class to play. Step back for a moment and try to put everything into perspective. You need to use 3 skills before you can even use BoilBlood. Incase you didn't realize, this is actually a bit of an annoyance in a fight. Imagine if a Wizard needed to succesfully damage someone 3 times with their skills before they can use MegaBolt, ditto with any other class in the game. Warm-ups + GlobalCooldowns makes it something like 8-10 seconds into a fight where a Bloodmage can finally use a BloodBoil. Our most powerful skill isn't even an option as an opener. That's a hindrance.

What else is a hindrance? How about the fact that it costs us HP to use the majority of our skills? BloodBond is a great way to heal party members, but it drains quite a bit of mana over time, and our skills alone eats mana like it's nothing. If a Bloodmage doesn't use Transfuse, it will go from 100% mana to 0% in under 20 seconds. That's not even an exaggeration. Transfuse will give you back some mana however, but it doesn't go unpunished. It will cost you some health, so good luck using it if you're getting targeted.

This new Bloodmage has a lot of upside, but like most classes they can be shutdown if you have a brain on your shoulder. Focus a BM in a teamfight, especially if you're not a melee class who uses stamina, and you'll do well.