Ninjas need love, and other thoughts.

[Demonxman]

Thanks kris lol, yea Demon idk who the hell your talking to but get the sand out of your vagina, i was agreeing with you

lol, why are you assuming I'm talking about you? I'm talking about anyone who tries to compare skills between specs.
who are you* to judge which class should get more skills than any other?

ALSO, blow me. prick.

*(you being anyone who wants to say one spec should get more skills than another)

 

[Dazureus]

The amount of skills doesn't matter without context as to what they are supposed to do, or without a framework for the skills to work in. This is logic and common sense. You say "skills" like they're the end-all-be-all of offensive capability, but "skills" could mean just about anything. And that's unbalanced because people can interpret whatever they want out of that.

Melee classes in general should not have long-distance skills. Mid-range skills and projectiles are acceptable in moderation once balanced. I'm of the opinion that Samurai and Ninja in specific are extreme-close-range, based upon their other merits. And I'm perfectly fine with Rogues and Casters and Healers and Zombie Pigmen getting more skills so long as Warriors can stay competitive and interesting. And I did call it your hierarchy.

This whole entire issue is a little sideways, though. I'm not opposed to everything you're putting out there. Mostly it's just that you appear to think that Warriors don't really need skills whereas everybody else needs skills. I'm done again.

lol, why are you assuming I'm talking about you? I'm talking about anyone who tries to compare skills between specs.
who are you* to judge which class should get more skills than any other?

So in my opinion, the angry dude here who makes assumptions about other people's assumptions is half right. Ish. Skills should be compared, yes, absolutely. But insisting on a system that can potentially detract from the attractiveness and possibilities of an entire path while the others move up to some standard of balance... Not so fun.

ALSO, blow me. prick.

Hush now.

 

[Demonxman]

No, you blow me.

MATT!!!!! good to see ya! where have you been?

the angry dude here who makes assumptions

1. I'm not angry, I don't GET angry at this game and if I do there's a very valid reason
2. I do not make assumptions. that statement says you're just trying to troll me, but I got anti troll 2000 and fuck you

 

[kriskills]

This thread went all sideways. I suggested skills, and this came out lol

And to Daz and Demon. Skills arent end all. But trust me, they have a reason. Take away all skills, and see who would win a fight between a caster and a warrior. It would be the warrior. Casters are purely skill based classes, that have little use without their skills. So yes. they need more skills than a warrior that could hold his own without any skills. If you dont believe this, why dont you actually look at the classes and see for yourself. Caster specs have 8+ skills, while warriors have around 5. I would bet good money that this is because they know casters should have more skills in order to make them competitive. Caster's mana is literally their life. Without mana, they die.

Whether you think this is unfair, and makes a class less "attractive" is your opinion. I rather have higher hp and etc, and not have to worry about mana. If I didnt want to have to master another spec, I would be a warrior, regardless if another class has more skills than me.

But anyways, I really like the Poison Dart idea with a stick in hand. And Blackjack def needs a revamp. It just isnt useful how it is now. Ninja leap (jump) would be a fun skill, and help in catching fleeing casters or etc. But Maybe just something like a longer sprint than some other classes would do the trick (figured samurai would have most run since they were supposed to get the skill "One")

 

[vudani]

So......

Cookies == Life

 

[kriskills]

Yes =) Cookies are just good all around. And you cant disagree, without mana, casters are worthless. So cookies are their saviors if it is a heavy fight.

 

[Dazureus]

Casters are skill based classes. But skills are more than what you appear to think they are. Whether they should have more is not the issue. Whether they should have skills better suited to their role is. And when the role involves fighting from a distance, there's an inherent degree of survivability versus classes that are by definition melee fighters. Which is all I'm saying.

Not having mana does not mean death, it means an inability to fight without exposing the squishy mage to danger. They still have the option, depending on the battlefield, to retreat or regroup.

I don't think that's unfair at all. I think that to invent some guideline that says "Casters > Healers >Rogues >Warriors" is, in a word, stupid. In more, it's constricting and makes for boring, underused classes near the bottom of the list. Hopefully you can see my position.
____________________

Daz: the angry dude here who makes assumptions

Demon: I do not make assumptions. that statement says you're just trying to troll me

I ain't trollin'. Thanks for cutting me off.

Daz: ...about other people's assumptions

And yep y'do.

Papabear: Demon idk who the hell your talking to

Demon: lol, why are you assuming I'm talking about you?

I'm not saying, I'm only saying.

 

[Danda]

Jump (Ninja Leap) - 30Mp - Same as Dragoon (Ninjas are known for leaping from building to building)
- This allows ninjas to have an exit strategy, and a way to get to casters.

Yes lets take the only thing that makes a dragoon unique and give it to another class!

 

[kriskills]

Danda, There are a lot of repeats of skills around. You still have charge. And I do think Dragoons need more skills, because they are lacking (Only 2 or so? Jump and Charge). I wouldnt care if Thieves got smoke, or something like it. If it fits their skill base, then why shouldnt they have it too?

 

[strongholdx]

Yes lets take the only thing that makes a dragoon unique and give it to another class!

Oh god, I think this is sarcasm so if it is I agree. Us underpowered dragoons have 2 skills (As Kris states) and if we could see other classes passing us up with our skills then i'd just switch classes because thats homosexual

 

[Aerokii]

Dragoons are also getting impale at least. It's a start!

 

[strongholdx]

getting

Aha, but do not HAVE

 

[kriskills]

Yes, dragoons need work. No one has charge, as far as I know. So you have that. But Dragoons should get more stuff, just keep suggesting things, and hopefully your list will start to grow. Thats why I started this. And there is no ownership over skills. Wizards had all the lightning skills, but Geomancer got chain lightning.

Many skills are reused, why cant jump? I am not against Dragoons, I think they need a lot of work, so go get some skills. But Ninjas really only have 1 major pvp skill which we get at level 50, so we need work too. It fits the ninja, so I put it as a skill suggestion.

 

[Aerokii]

I think a jump skill makes sense for ninjas to have, but for purely mobility, as a non-offensive move for them, no offensive bonus. That way Dragoons still have their signature move (which has been their signature since FF2), and ninjas have something a little more useful than safe fall.

As for classes having ownership, that's pretty much true. The way I'd like to see it done is have every class get a skill or two that's specific to them, but then share a few with similar classes as well- the way paladins have lay hands to themselves, but share pray, invuln and revive with clerics, who are similar.

edit: Hm, apparently jump has no offensive bonus. Consider my info out of date.

 

[kriskills]

I didnt know jump had an offensive bonus? I want it for mobility, as either a way to escape an enemy, or catch someone fleeing. As of now, ninjas have no way to do that, and it sucks when you have low hp, and need to be close, and people can root, or just run away and there is no way too catch them, and not enough HP to wait until all their mana is gone.

 

[Aerokii]

I didnt know jump had an offensive bonus? I want it for mobility, as either a way to escape an enemy, or catch someone fleeing. As of now, ninjas have no way to do that, and it sucks when you have low hp, and need to be close, and people can root, or just run away and there is no way too catch them, and not enough HP to wait until all their mana is gone.

This might have been before they changed all the weapon stuff to be custom. Not 100% sure on that, but if you think on it, for 1.8 it'll certainly help with critical hits.

 

[strongholdx]

I didnt know jump had an offensive bonus? I want it for mobility, as either a way to escape an enemy, or catch someone fleeing. As of now, ninjas have no way to do that, and it sucks when you have low hp, and need to be close, and people can root, or just run away and there is no way too catch them, and not enough HP to wait until all their mana is gone.

Jump has no offensive bonus. In fact none of our skills do, they're strictly mobility. In fact, that's what Dragoons are, really dman mobile. Have you ever tried to catch up with one? I bet it wasn't easy. Anywho, what @Aerokii said, it’s our signature skill, it makes Dragoons what they are. I understand WHY ninja would get jump (Hey, it makes sense) but it would take away all Dragoons have left: Uniqueness.

Furthermore, Tacos

 

[c12095]

Here is how ninjas are now

Sneak - 20Mp - Run in sneak state
- Good skill, easier to run around in, and not have to worry about being seen as much. Useless if no cover around.

Assassins blade - 25Mp - Adds 8 poison damage to your attack
- Only combat skill, comes from rogue class.

Blackjack - 45Mp - 5%chance to stun an opponent for 1-3 seconds
- Okay, useless skill. 5%?! chance to stun an opponent for maybe 1-3 seconds, and take 45% of your MP. This is a stupid skill as it is. Change the % of stun to 30-40% for 3 seconds, then we have a skill that can be useful to stop runners.

Safefall - 35Mp I think - Can fall from any height and land unscathed.
- It is quite a fun skill to have, but does do a lot in terms of fighting. Unless you are lucky enough to be fighting on something high and want to escape.

Smoke - 100MP - Dissappear for 10 seconds (breaks on attack, or if you are hit)
- First problem, people can see that you used smoke if you are decently close, and then spam things like harmtouch, or smite which wont go unless it sees you. So they spam it in circles until it hits you and brings you out of smoke. Besides this, it is a great skill to get the first surprise hit or two in.

Warriors have many skills that are combat related, while rogues have virtually none. I think rogues should have more skills than warriors, because warriors are supposed to have very few skills, and rely on their attack, hp, and armor to get by. But in this, Warriors have better armor, better hp, and better skills.

Here allow me to explain why you dont need love.

Dragoons​

Jump - 20MP - Jumps in the faceing direction.​

Charge - 50MP - Moves character to selected target.​

Stoneskin - Not implemented.​

So glad we have so many combat skills?? Be thankful for the skills that you have. You could be stuck with two total skills, like all Dragoons are...

 

[strongholdx]

Here allow me to explain why you dont need love.

Dragoons​

Jump - 20MP - Jumps in the faceing direction.​

Charge - 50MP - Moves character to selected target.​

Stoneskin - Not implemented.​

So glad we have so many combat skills?? Be thankful for the skills that you have. You could be stuck with two total skills, like all Dragoons are...

Made my day

 

[kriskills]

^ c10whatevernumbers hate people like you. My class doesnt have much, so no one else should have skills. Think you need more skills? Then do what I am doing. Make some suggestions!

And to stronghold, yeah I know what you are talking about, but try to figure some things out with your giant spoon, or think of more skills. I dont agree that a class that makes sense to have a certain skill, shouldnt have it to keep another spec "unique"