• Register so you can experience the greatest RPG server ever! Use the keyword "Herocraft" when registering!Register! Enjoy the server @ play.hc.to !
  • Guest, Make sure to use our LAUNCHER! Read more here!

Ninja

Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Likes
214
#21
There has been lots of discussion about NInja's Blackjack. Many people find the skill OP and some want it completely removed. I believe a more reasonable change would to make it more "skill based." Currently, all skills that have a stun have a drawback. Divine Stun has a warm-up and Headbutt has recoil damage. I suggest that blackjack can only be used in stealth/sneaking. The base stun admiration would be reduced to 1 from the front and 1.25-1.5? from the behind. The though process behind this suggestion is that stunning someone with a black should be a surprise tactic. Not something used in open combat.
 

Delfofthebla

Coder
Tier 4
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Likes
174
Location
United States
#22
I can agree that blackjack is probably too strong right now, but if we were to nerf that too, I wonder if they would get hit too hard. (Their lower HP and the energize nerf is likely to cause em to get put in their place a bit more often anyways.)

Also, what you described was how blackjack originally worked. It was very weak if the user was not sneaking or invis. However, what this lead to was the ninja would kite players around while it was on cooldown, using only shuriken and bow shots. Once the ability was off cooldown, they would smoke in and blackjack. This was really the only time the ninja melee'd. Things are definitely a bit different than they were back then, with the higher base left click and the lower stamina costs, but I worry that it might just revert them back to that style of play.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Likes
214
#23
I can agree that blackjack is probably too strong right now, but if we were to nerf that too, I wonder if they would get hit too hard. (Their lower HP and the energize nerf is likely to cause em to get put in their place a bit more often anyways.)

Also, what you described was how blackjack originally worked. It was very weak if the user was not sneaking or invis. However, what this lead to was the ninja would kite players around while it was on cooldown, using only shuriken and bow shots. Once the ability was off cooldown, they would smoke in and blackjack. This was really the only time the ninja melee'd. Things are definitely a bit different than they were back then, with the higher base left click and the lower stamina costs, but I worry that it might just revert them back to that style of play.
The problem is that I see this playstyle still. If a ninja gets in a tough spot, they smoke out, get their CDs off and comeback in with another 200+ damage eviscerate. I'm not saying that ninja's shouldn't be hit-n-run, I just feel their should be a decision on which skill they will use instead of a free stun with blackjack.

The main problem I have with blackjack (besides it's ordinarily long range) is that it feels like a "Free" stun. Paladin's Divine stun and Pyromancer's Great Combustion have a warm-up. Berserker's Headbutt has self inflicted damage. For ninja's blackjack, they just need to press the button for free backstabs.

It's a finicky class to balance IMO. You want to make it hit hard and get away, but if you do it too much it's OP. On the flipside, it doing too little will make it die due to it's squishy-ness.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Likes
0
#24
Most people like myself use backflip for an escape my idea is that they add front flip but key factor is make back flip and front flip share a cooldown so you don't have to turn to flip away
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Likes
214
#25
Old idea, but would like to bring it back up:


How to rework ninja:
  • Remove Blitz ( Not only does it not fit ninja [I hate ninjutsu :p] it's really loud aka not stealthy)
  • Remove Blind (Will be explained next)
  • Remove the free shurikens from backflip (Skill already has enough utility.)
  • Rework Smoke Bomb: You through a smoke bomb at your feat, blinding nearby enemies.
    • Cooldown: 25 Seconds
    • Duration: 1.5 + 0.035 CHA
    • Stamina: 200
    • Range: 4 block radius
    • Regent: 1 gunpowder

  • MAJOR REWORK: Fade-
    • Fade is now a toggle skill. When toggled it make the user invisible. When active, the users stamina will be drained and his movement will be slowed (Slow I) (This is to prevent them form just using it to get away/chase and to make it more appropriate as if they have to move more carefully) This would allow ninja to constantly go in and out of visability providing a new dynamic to the class.
    • Mana: 25 mana per second.
    • Stamina: 65 Stamina per second ( With this, a ninja wouldn't be able to stealth and regain his stamina mid battle)
    • Cooldown: 5 seconds after you've become visible. You become visible when ever you: Take damage, deal damage, or use any skill (This includes fade which will simply reveal you.)
  • Rework Eviscerate: (Renamed to Assassinate): Same everything, but requires sneak/stealth to use
  • Rework Garrote: OK, IDK what happened here, but when I initially suggested garrote I suggested it as a stun. Now it's just an overall worst skill than kick: (Less damage, Less Silence, Longer Cooldown, Stealth/Sneak requirement.) How I wanted the skill is that when you are sneaking/stealthed you use a string in hand (Doesn't use the string just required in hand) and strangling the target doing damage and stunning them.
  • Rework Backstab: Instead of a damage bonus, make it a on-hit effect that you gain when you have used sneak or stealth (Used once and goes away if you get out of sneak/stealth)
@Kainzo Thoughts on this?
I know we aren't supposed "Create new skills," but in this case it's small modifiers and the only major thing is fade which is just an alteration on smoke.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Likes
154
Location
l
#28
Honestly I think shurkins should be nerfed, 30 armor piercing damage per shurkin (so 90 total) is a lot, I was thinking maybe reduce it to 10? (these numbers are from my memory as ninja and I belive they r right)
 

Egorh

Outcast
Tier 7
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Likes
243
#29
Honestly I think shurkins should be nerfed, 30 armor piercing damage per shurkin (so 90 total) is a lot, I was thinking maybe reduce it to 10? (these numbers are from my memory as ninja and I belive they r right)
It says shurikens do 10 damage (I am not ninja atm so that would be the base, do they scale?), and it says nothing about armor piercing damage.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Likes
154
Location
l
#30
It says shurikens do 10 damage (I am not ninja atm so that would be the base, do they scale?), and it says nothing about armor piercing damage.
but they do peirce armor..... oh I guess that's base damage, I know they scale with agility, so then I say scaling should be reduced?
 

Egorh

Outcast
Tier 7
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Likes
243
#31
but they do peirce armor..... oh I guess that's base damage, I know they scale with agility, so then I say scaling should be reduced?
I think the scaling is fine (0.5 per agl****), maybe just have them not pierce armor--or have it fire 2, not 3
 
Last edited:
Top