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Suggestion Ninja Suggestion - No New Skill :D

HeroGuy426

Glowstone
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Location
Ohio
I'd actually kinda hate for ninja to get another skill, because I have no more room for macros, and I don't want to have to get a mouse with button on the side. Blitz with a short stun would be better. You could say Garrote could be removed, but I already don't use that anyway, and my keyboard is pretty much all used up. Blitz with stun. It makes sense. You're getting hit by lightning, you sit there and get electrocuted. However it's natural lightning called upon by your ninja powers, while Bolt is mystical lightning that's not as cool.
 

MichaelRL

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
May 31, 2013
Location
St.augustine Florida
I'd actually kinda hate for ninja to get another skill, because I have no more room for macros, and I don't want to have to get a mouse with button on the side. Blitz with a short stun would be better. You could say Garrote could be removed, but I already don't use that anyway, and my keyboard is pretty much all used up. Blitz with stun. It makes sense. You're getting hit by lightning, you sit there and get electrocuted. However it's natural lightning called upon by your ninja powers, while Bolt is mystical lightning that's not as cool.
Sounds like a personal problem
 
Joined
May 14, 2013
I'd actually kinda hate for ninja to get another skill, because I have no more room for macros, and I don't want to have to get a mouse with button on the side. Blitz with a short stun would be better. You could say Garrote could be removed, but I already don't use that anyway, and my keyboard is pretty much all used up. Blitz with stun. It makes sense. You're getting hit by lightning, you sit there and get electrocuted. However it's natural lightning called upon by your ninja powers, while Bolt is mystical lightning that's not as cool.
Did you rebind your inventory/drop button? Also, use the arrow keys for sneak/grapple, that's what I do.
 

RShooter2000

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
I'd actually kinda hate for ninja to get another skill, because I have no more room for macros, and I don't want to have to get a mouse with button on the side. Blitz with a short stun would be better. You could say Garrote could be removed, but I already don't use that anyway, and my keyboard is pretty much all used up. Blitz with stun. It makes sense. You're getting hit by lightning, you sit there and get electrocuted. However it's natural lightning called upon by your ninja powers, while Bolt is mystical lightning that's not as cool.

This is an invalid argument, you would rather Ninja stay a shit class cause you don't want to add another macro? Shadowstep makes so much more sense then a stun. To make blitz a stun would require its cool down to increase, or blitz would be just another op blackjack.
 

Ahrall

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
Beautiful sunny Californ-i-a
To make blitz a stun would require its cool down to increase, or blitz would be just another op blackjack.
If we look at the other stuns in the game there is no need for an increased cooldown
Divine Stun is a 20 second cooldown 1.5 second stun
Great Combustion sits at a lengthy 45 (but it's AoE) 1.5 second stun
Heatbutt is 40, but it's instant cast and only 1.25 seconds
So Bitz with its short range, warm up, and single target nature will be fine staying at 20 seconds. Maybe an increase to 25-30 seconds to put it closer to eviscerate/smoke but no more than that, and if the stun is only 1 second as proposed it wont be as game changing. Merely a way to get behind someone
 

Egorh

Outcast
Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
If we look at the other stuns in the game there is no need for an increased cooldown
Divine Stun is a 20 second cooldown 1.5 second stun
Great Combustion sits at a lengthy 45 (but it's AoE) 1.5 second stun
Heatbutt is 40, but it's instant cast and only 1.25 seconds
So Bitz with its short range, warm up, and single target nature will be fine staying at 20 seconds. Maybe an increase to 25-30 seconds to put it closer to eviscerate/smoke but no more than that, and if the stun is only 1 second as proposed it wont be as game changing. Merely a way to get behind someone
Divine Stun is in a very very strong spot and will most likely get a nerf (and they throw minimal charisma points in that bump it up to about 2s)
Great Combustion has about the same AOE as Fireblast, but with a warmup. It is one of the most difficult skills to land
Headbutt also has a large stamina cost to it.

In my opinion adding another stun to Ninja is not the way to fix it, it was an extremely 'unhealthy' aspect on Ninja
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
If we look at the other stuns in the game there is no need for an increased cooldown
Divine Stun is a 20 second cooldown 1.5 second stun
Great Combustion sits at a lengthy 45 (but it's AoE) 1.5 second stun
Heatbutt is 40, but it's instant cast and only 1.25 seconds
So Bitz with its short range, warm up, and single target nature will be fine staying at 20 seconds. Maybe an increase to 25-30 seconds to put it closer to eviscerate/smoke but no more than that, and if the stun is only 1 second as proposed it wont be as game changing. Merely a way to get behind someone
Divine Stun is in a very very strong spot and will most likely get a nerf (and they throw minimal charisma points in that bump it up to about 2s)
Great Combustion has about the same AOE as Fireblast, but with a warmup. It is one of the most difficult skills to land
Headbutt also has a large stamina cost to it.

In my opinion adding another stun to Ninja is not the way to fix it, it was an extremely 'unhealthy' aspect on Ninja

On the note of GreatCombustion, it is AoE, but can only ever hit one target. I believe it mentions this in the description.

Fireblast works the same way, albeit it is not a stun, and therefore less relevant.
 
Joined
May 14, 2013
Is it a bug that escape artist can only break free from only entangle as far as I know? I think that ninja would actually have a chance against berserker/paladin if he could break free from their stuns... just sayin
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
Is it a bug that escape artist can only break free from only entangle as far as I know? I think that ninja would actually have a chance against berserker/paladin if he could break free from their stuns... just sayin
Escape artist is not meant to get players out of stuns. It shouldn't ever be used for that, and likely never will. Escape Artist breaks you out (as it says in the description) of movement impairing effects. Slows and Roots are likely the only thing that will ever fall into such a category. It used to get you out of piggify as well, but I think I took that out.


Breaking out of stuns is pretty high level stuff. A stun is so powerful because almost nobody can break out of them.

I believe Berserker has one skill able to do this, unless I never added that in. I'm pretty sure I did though. Well, whether it is in or not, Berserker is likely the only class that would ever get such functionality from a skill. (Or a support class that targets an ally perhaps.)
 
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malikdanab

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Escape artist is not meant to get players out of stuns. And it shouldn't, and likely never will. Escape Artist breaks you out (as it says in the description) of movement impairing effects. Slows and Roots are likely the only thing that will ever fall into such a category. It used to get you out of piggify as well, but I think I took that out.


Breaking out of stuns is pretty high level stuff. A stun is so powerful because almost nobody can break out of them.

I believe Berserker has one skill able to do this, unless I never added that in. I'm pretty sure I did though. Well, whether it is in or not, Berserker is likely the only class that would ever get such functionality from a skill. (Or a support class that targets an ally perhaps.)
Berserker can kinda. Frenzy prevents you from getting stunned, but you can't use it to break out of a stun.
 

RShooter2000

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
If we look at the other stuns in the game there is no need for an increased cooldown
Divine Stun is a 20 second cooldown 1.5 second stun
Great Combustion sits at a lengthy 45 (but it's AoE) 1.5 second stun
Heatbutt is 40, but it's instant cast and only 1.25 seconds
So Bitz with its short range, warm up, and single target nature will be fine staying at 20 seconds. Maybe an increase to 25-30 seconds to put it closer to eviscerate/smoke but no more than that, and if the stun is only 1 second as proposed it wont be as game changing. Merely a way to get behind someone

Do you see a pattern in these stuns, none of these classes have backstabs that do 150+ per hit. Here's my logic behind ninja stun, you have blitz which does 150+ dmg that pierces armor, you add a stun to that, you also have to add an additional 100-200 dmg from backstabs. While waiting for blitz cool down you eviscerate and kite then you rinse and repeat. That's like at least 500 dmg from like 5 seconds of fighting, that's worse then runeblade and then its up there with wizard. Shadowstep means you get a chance to get some of those backstabs, but you may not always be able to cause your target could just turn around.
 

HeroGuy426

Glowstone
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Location
Ohio
Do you see a pattern in these stuns, none of these classes have backstabs that do 150+ per hit. Here's my logic behind ninja stun, you have blitz which does 150+ dmg that pierces armor, you add a stun to that, you also have to add an additional 100-200 dmg from backstabs. While waiting for blitz cool down you eviscerate and kite then you rinse and repeat. That's like at least 500 dmg from like 5 seconds of fighting, that's worse then runeblade and then its up there with wizard. Shadowstep means you get a chance to get some of those backstabs, but you may not always be able to cause your target could just turn around.
With shadowstep, you do get behind the target, and you can land a few quick hits and eviscerate if you saved it for then because you're smart. If you just add a short stun to Blitz, then you only have a chance to get behind them and do damage. It would obviously be a short stun, so that it's not op. Shadowstep though, guarantees that you get a few hits if not many, while a short stun gives you a chance to do the same. By short I mean like 1 second MAX, with maybe getting up to 2 seconds if you put in like 30 charisma.
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
I've seen people begging for Shadowstep on Ninja for quite a while now.

Now, I'll first say that I hate the idea. I tried to keep magic away from Ninja as much as possible. Blitz is pretty much the only exception to this rule, and hey! Everyone and their mom complains about how it "doesn't fit". Shadowstep is a teleport. Plain and simple, it is a magic based ability that places you "behind" your target, and I just didn't want to add that in. In addition to the magic theme it grants, It also puts too much focus on Ninja's backstabs, which in my opinion, pushes him over the line of "Ninja" to a "Rogue" or "Assassin" type class. To me, Ninja is interesting because it offers a different approach to typical rogue classes that you see in MMO's. Adding Shadowstep is just pushing the class in the wrong direction.


All of my personal feelings aside, I'm going to lay this on you all. I'm wondering if the people asking for Shadowstep ever played Dreadknight when it had the skill. If not, I have some bad news for you.

The Skill

Sucks

Balls.

Sucks balls you say!? How could this be! It teleports you behind your target, so we can get off lots of backstabs! Delf, you're an idiot!

No, actually, it doesn't. I mean, if that target is standing completely still, yes, yes it does do exactly what you want. However, if that target is moving, it usually teleports you about 2-5 blocks behind your target, which is often completely out of melee range. Why does it do this? Well, because all teleport skills that we make, we have to provide checks to prevent exploits. Due to these checks, it actually spends a lot of time making sure that you can actually teleport to where you want to teleport to. By the time it finishes, the person you were teleporting to is nowhere near where he originally was. I did my best to try and improve this proccess. I reworked the logic at least 3 times trying to appease the outcries of the Dreadknights, but in the end, it was never good enough.

There is a reason it was removed from Dreadknight. It's just a shitty skill for HC. If we never had to worry about players using these things to teleport through walls, maybe things would be better, but we do, and so it sucks. The only possible way to make it not suck is to apply a stun to it, which the balance team discussed in brief while DK still had the skill. It made a little bit more sense back then, and I probably could have done it. However, the whole reason for it's existence was for it to be paired with Harrow, a life leech nuke that could only be cast if you were behind the target. I thought Harrow was a really wonky and unreliable skill for HC, and therefore decided it was best that I simply remove both of the skills, and try to push a different theme onto the DK. I won't say the final DK turned out amazing, but at least people aren't raging about how their primary offensive skills don't work anymore.

Going back to the Ninja, when people were originally asking for Shadowstep, the only way it would make sense would be to do what we wanted to do with DK, give it a stun. However, the Ninja already had Blackjack, and did not need another stun. Seeing as how I hated the idea anyways, and I had just had FrontFlip rejected by the big man, this made it very easy for me to ignore the request.

Now that Ninja doesn't have a stun, well, you could add it. I wouldn't like it, but it would work. I can't say I know how Kainzo feels about all of this, but regardless of how he feels, the Dreadknight section contains nothing but facts. ShadowStep is slow, and it's ineffective. You cannot have this skill exist in any form without a stun. It just doesn't work.

I just wanted to throw all this out there since people are bringing it up again.
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Well, remember that Blackjack was instant while Blitz will warn your opponent and give them a chance to get out of range before the skill goes off. And it kind of makes sense, being paralyzed or in shock after getting hit with a lightning (Pokemon anyone?)

Since Delf pretty much shut down the entire Shadowstep idea, I think this is the best alternative.
 

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
Tbh delf is probs best with skills and opness (imo) so I'd have to say if he says it shouldn't be added it probs shouldn't be added
 
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