Suggestion Ninja - My idea more then likely sucks but here it is

[JupiterRome]

So looking at ninja is kinda like looking at dread knight vs paladin. (Ninja vs Runeblade) going from the wiki, Ninjas melee is 58, Runeblades is 60 and Dragoons is 58 (think goons is actually like 54) so when you look at it, Runeblade and Dragoon outclass ninja in MOST cases, besides utility and mobility wise Dragoon can be go head to head with Ninja chase wise. I played Ninja for a while in Bastion, Got 100+ kill streak but this isn't about me bragging so back on track, CC downright kills this class, I kinda agree with that being ok but Ninja is supposed to have high damage, my original idea was increase Ninjas base to 70 - 80 but looking back these melee attacks with eviscerate would fuck over any squishy class, and wouldn't be a huge buff against armored classes, So I was thinking about old Bastion Ninja which led me to think about Runeblade and Bard and then Ranger, Ranger had a skill called heart shot which essentially made shots pierce arrows, making it so Paladin couldn't Dominate ranger ez pz anymore, I think maybe add a skill like this on Ninja, yes it would buff their fighting against squishes but not much, it would be a skill that you toggle on and off, making you do an additional 25% (Random Numbers here) of your left clickthat pierces armor, this still would not be a huge buff considering every warrior can go head to head with Ninja even with this, dice stun and wack them in the face till they die, head butt and bash them with 100 damage per hit when your low, terror and wack them (oh look an area where Paladin outclasses dread knight 10 to 1) and Dragoon is just a tanker version of Ninja so I feel they would be pretty good match up still, so if you look at it if the Ninja hits for 65 it's (for n = base damage)
N1.25 = damage per hit

So for a ninja hitting 65 damage per hit your doing 91.25, now I'm looking at this and combined with envenom and back stabs and maybe a sharp sword this may be to strong, so I was thinking adding a 50-100 stamina cost per hit (if it hits) making ninja very good in 1v1s but not able to just fuck everyone over in team fights, Ninja is already a very squishy class so I don't think it would be a problem for A ninja kiting AS LONG AS energizes cool down was upped (doubled at least) other wise the Ninja would just keep running in bursting melee energize hit like twice and backflip away and kite.


@TrueCorruptor @Irishman81 you guys are both people I respect Balance wise that have played Ninja @Ahrall your special @Im_a_Pickle cuz your a pickle

Edit
Changed 81.25 to 91.25 was typo cuz on my phone

 

[malikdanab]

I might hate this idea, but its a bitch to read...

 

[peterpunx]

Completely agree, armor penetration is what ninja needs. Maybe turn backstab into an % of armor penetration (not only from behind), no more extreme burst against casters while they kite.

PS: reducing eviscerate or changing it.

 

[JupiterRome]

Completely agree, armor penetration is what ninja needs. Maybe turn backstab into an % of armor penetration (not only from behind), no more extreme burst against casters while they kite.

PS: reducing eviscerate or changing it.

Holy shit someone liked my idea?


PS: I'm a derp I meant to tag you

 

[JupiterRome]

Going to add - this wouldn't be op like Bastion Ninja because with Envenom and this and might and war song if you do. 65 per left click you do 166 per back stab (with 30 ago and sneaking, so yeah I mean if a berserker provokes you they're fucked) only 41.5 damage off this would pierce armor too, but I could see an eviscerate nerd with this

Edit
Keep in mind rune blades 105 damage fire rune with rune ward with no str added, while Ninja has to add str to deal 82 with 20 going through armor and Runeblade 30 int (fairly common or more then 30) has 40ish going through armor, Also Ninjas Envenom would make it deal 91.25 for any people wondering (8 damage with Envenom because most Ninjas Dobt add much into intellect)

 

[Ahrall]

The armor penetration on backstab is cool and all, but how often will you land a backstab against a decent warrior player?

 

[Ultanian]

Longest sentence I've ever read, comma much?

 

[malikdanab]

Longest sentence I've ever read, comma much?

Semicolons!

 

[JupiterRome]

Longest sentence I've ever read, comma much?

I'm one of those people that doesn't give a shit about punctuation if I'm writing/typing something XD

 

[JupiterRome]

I might hate this idea, but its a bitch to read...

Read it and I'll stop giving you shit about berserker

 

[malikdanab]

I still think this doesn't solve ninja's problem. Adding an on hit effect just means you do more damage with your melees. What ninja is supposed to do is hit hard and quick then retreat.

What I'd do:

• Change envenom back to a dot with an added nausea effect
• Make backstabs piercing damage instead of bonus damage.
• Give ninja an initiation (Shadowstep?)

 

[JupiterRome]

I still think this doesn't solve ninja's problem. Adding an on hit effect just means you do more damage with your melees. What ninja is supposed to do is hit hard and quick then retreat.

What I'd do:

• Change envenom back to a dot with an added nausea effect
• Make backstabs piercing damage instead of bonus damage.
• Give ninja an initiation (Shadowstep?)

I feel like ninja shouldn't rely on backstaba, mainly because this will strengthen a berserker making the hit like a truck, paladin will just shield reflect , dk will more then likely initiate with terror and curse on you fucking up backstabs, Draggon (and paladin) will disarm you fucking you over, it's not just armor and hp and warriors hitting reeeally hard it's also the fact that they just fuck ninja in every possible way

 

[malikdanab]

I feel like ninja shouldn't rely on backstaba, mainly because this will strengthen a berserker making the hit like a truck, paladin will just shield reflect , dk will more then likely initiate with terror and curse on you fucking up backstabs, Draggon (and paladin) will disarm you fucking you over, it's not just armor and hp and warriors hitting reeeally hard it's also the fact that they just fuck ninja in every possible way

Thats exactly my point...backstabs are a bonus. Ninja should rely on skill damage for burst not melee for DPS.

 

[JupiterRome]

I kinda wanna tag balance to see more ideas but idk

 

[JupiterRome]

Thats exactly my point...backstabs are a bonus. Ninja should rely on skill damage for burst not melee for DPS.

But the thing is I feel ninja would kite shadow step and backflip away, making it kinda overpowerd

Edit-
With this change Ninja would gave to actually get up close, with shadow step I would shadow step someone backstab them twice for 200 damage each and eviscerate for a 600 damage burst, shadow step would help a lot against casters and I don't think ninja needs it

 

[malikdanab]

But the thing is I feel ninja would kite shadow step and backflip away, making it kinda overpowerd

Edit-
With this change Ninja would gave to actually get up close, with shadow step I would shadow step someone backstab them twice for 200 damage each and eviscerate for a 600 damage burst, shadow step would help a lot against casters and I don't think ninja needs it

Thats how assassins work. OP in 1v1s if they get the drop on someone, but die just as easily if someone gets the drop on them. Ninja is already extremely squishy and still won't win fights against warriors who take the initiative. Ninjas role will to attack the unaware and break away before retaliation.

 

[JupiterRome]

Thats how assassins work. OP in 1v1s if they get the drop on someone, but die just as easily if someone gets the drop on them. Ninja is already extremely squishy and still won't win fights against warriors who take the initiative. Ninjas role will to attack the unaware and break away before retaliation.

Yeah but I still don't think Ninja should kite CDs, Ninja is in a very good spit vs Casters and with this change u fear it would be even better and no caster could beat it, I also think Kainzo said he doesn't want Ninja using magic so he doesn't want it to have shadow step (idk how he feels about it now)

 

[Egorh]

Shadowstep on Ninja was shut down by Delf a while ago. Something along the lines of: Too glitchy, teleporting to the person was - not is, all the technical stuff that Delf knows.

Obviously I am leaning towards my own rework idea.

I feel like your changes would not help Ninja as a class. It would just allow it to match warriors in 1v1, making Ninja a faceroll class (but not as much as it was in Bastion of course). It would not do anything about not being able sneak up on someone, or be able to accomplish anything in a group fight.

 

[malikdanab]

I can imagine that shadowstep's problems stem from the fact you are trying to teleport to a moving target. Could be possible to add a micro stun to it before the teleport.

 

[Xhazed]

Give ninja a stun give it a 50 sec smoke with 70 sec cooldown remove fade add an aoe give it shit ton of damage make backstab a skill u have to toggle like envenom remove bows remove graple add death from above, you give 50% of the damage you take from fall more or less idk then you just pvp and dead every1 out there