Suggestion New Staff Position: Town Supervisor

[CanDoBlue]

Yes, It is true Herocraft has met it’s limit for the maximum number of towns. This however is “broken” in a sense. A town is defined as an Active group of players paying weekly taxes to keep the town region protected. Well, many towns continue to pay their taxes and have the correct number of players in the town to keep taxes paid. Potentially, keep innovative and productive players from “trying their hand” at creating a town.

So Canada what do I need to make a town?
Well, I’m glad you asked!

You will need for a basic town (i.e. Hamlet):
The Required Materials to form said Hamlet.
400c a week
Atleast 5 active* members in your town

*But, Canada! I know of a few towns that don’t have any active members, but only pay the coin tax. How is that fair?
Well, that’s the current flaw in our system. Without a way to track when a player logs in/out. We can’t be certain, so as far as the player community knows, Staff just gives them the green light to keep the regions.
So how can I make a town if all the towns keep paying the coin tax?
You will want to collect your materials for town, and keep them ready. Your only hope will be that the coin runs out, but that could be from a week to 3 months. Since we are once again unable to see how much coin is in that town’s bank.

Let’s Look at some Inactive towns in Bastion, Shall we?

1st Underworld +954, +735
Town Members- 52
Town Size- Town (Medium)

*Last Post On Town Thread in Township Forum: Stylx, March 17, 2013
(By A Town Member)
*Town Council (Mayor & Managers)
TeddyTazer- M.I.A
Stylx- M.I.A
GlacialReign- Joined Rangpur
Dfergy123- M.I.A
Xeonsfar- M.I.A
Kekosawr- M.I.A

*All Members last posted on the HC forums in mid-April.
*Town Status: Active. Glacial_Reign Can you confirm this?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

2nd OuterRim -1048, 2015
Town Members- 17
Town Size- Town (Medium)

*Last Post On Town Thread in Township Forum: Canada_Blue April 7th, 2013
(By A Town Member)
*Town Council (Mayor & Managers)
PHONEBOOTHE- M.I.A
Town Members- 17
Town Size- Town (Medium)
* Last posted on the HC forums in mid-April.
*Town Status: Active.

A little back-story is needed for this town. I handed-over the rights of Mayor to PHONEBOOTHE to OuterRim, since then the town has kept the same members that had not left or were inactive. The town has since had the money to pay the coin tax, but not 1 single Active player.



Using this evidence, I purpose a new edition to the [Mod] team.
Job Would Include:
*Monitoring Town-by-Town Player base.
*Alerting Higher Staff of a Violation.
*Working with Mayors to keep players Active.

Thank you for reviewing this suggestion, I welcome any comments, concerns, or criticism in the posts below, I will do my best to answer them.

P.S. All Information acquired was taken from Herocraft Forums or In-game.

Sincerely,
Canada_Blue.

 

[Danda]

Just saying I've seen both Keko & Dfergy within the last week.

 

[KingOfTheOzone]

Not a bad idea, would like to see more town positions

 

[CanDoBlue]

Just saying I've seen both Keko & Dfergy within the last week.

Ahhh Ok, Well that could change some things. Also, Keko & Defergy are only managers, they have more control in the town, than most. If they don't want to continue management of the town, and want to join another town. Underworld needs to dealt with. It's not helping any of our new & active community by having 1 more town, they can't join. Danda

 

[Danda]

Ahhh Ok, Well that could change some things. Also, Keko & Defergy are only managers, they have more control in the town, than most. If they don't want to continue management of the town, and want to join another town. Underworld needs to dealt with. It's not helping any of our new & active community by having 1 more town, they can't join. Danda

Oh I agree but currently we have no useful or reliable method of tracking a player's activity. We're currently working on a few systems that should help the administrative staff work on these issues but these things can take time unfortunately.

 

[CanDoBlue]

Oh I agree but currently we have no useful or reliable method of tracking a player's activity. We're currently working on a few systems that should help the administrative staff work on these issues but these things can take time unfortunately.

Can we not just "force push" through these challenges. It's not working now, and that's 1 whole town slot. I know of several groups of players who are just increasingly antsy to have access to a town of their very own.

All of that aside, I've played Herocraft for quite a while now, (Will get Elite status in August). The main attitude in Herocraft & of Kainzo's has been ( In my own words) "Find the best idea, Try it. If it doesn't work, Try Find the correct solution."

That's what I purpose here. Danda, we don't have time to waste. Upon, numerous occasions Kainzo has stated, "There will be NO new main map. We will keep Bastion, and re-new & refresh the sub-worlds." With players who get all the materials, and wait & wait & wait. Most of the time, these plans are un-done by waiting for the staff to figure out a solution.

Please take this into consideration. We need to take action now, with someone spending time with these mayors, and towns. We can take charge of this issue, and "grab it by the balls". So when a solution is found, there can more than adequate help & aids, to combat this in the future.

Please don't push this off, we can't sit around and wait till a solution is found.

For your Consideration,​

Canada_Blue.​

​

 

[Dielan9999]

It's really difficult to gauge the activity of townships. If we give them an additional thing to do besides have members and pay the tax they will groan, do that additional thing, and appear just as inactive before.

The only way to fix this without a system overhaul would be to tighten the cost of maintaining your region, which just seems tedious.

Perhaps Hamlets and Towns (not Cities or Capitals) could have higher coin costs (or cost some items like kingdoms do). This would encourage them to gather the items and coin necessary to upgrade to at least City level (and be active enough to do that) to avoid the higher upkeep. The city they build and leave behind when they drift into only moderate activity levels would leave a more positive impact and would be big enough to have more motivated members upkeep the town for the founders of the town.

For example: I haven't played longer than 5 minutes in game for like 4 days, but my town is just fine without me. Everyone gets busy and we shouldn't punish that.

 

[Dreamcycler]

I simply think that there are far too many towns in Bastion.(IMO)
I think we should be a bit more strict on what towns stay and which go.

 

[leftovers5]

This is an excellent idea. I made a similar post many months ago, but I believe this needs to happen.

 

[MajorasMask]

Oh I agree but currently we have no useful or reliable method of tracking a player's activity. We're currently working on a few systems that should help the administrative staff work on these issues but these things can take time unfortunately.

Didn't someone come up with a list of ''last logins''? That doesn't detail the length of online play, but it's a start none the less.

 

[CanDoBlue]

It's really difficult to gauge the activity of townships. If we give them an additional thing to do besides have members and pay the tax they will groan, do that additional thing, and appear just as inactive before.

The only way to fix this without a system overhaul would be to tighten the cost of maintaining your region, which just seems tedious.

Perhaps Hamlets and Towns (not Cities or Capitals) could have higher coin costs (or cost some items like kingdoms do). This would encourage them to gather the items and coin necessary to upgrade to at least City level (and be active enough to do that) to avoid the higher upkeep. The city they build and leave behind when they drift into only moderate activity levels would leave a more positive impact and would be big enough to have more motivated members upkeep the town for the founders of the town.

For example: I haven't played longer than 5 minutes in game for like 4 days, but my town is just fine without me. Everyone gets busy and we shouldn't punish that.

Dielan, you know as well as I do that town will stockpile the extra items needed, just as they stockpile coin now. It will have no significant change on the system. All it will say is "Oh you have to go stockpile a town of logs, and coal, and obsidian." Ohh Booo whoo. Several Months worth of materials could be stockpiled by 5 players within 1 day. Then, we're right back to where we started.

Now, if we tightened the rules & regulations on towns and their activity among the citizens in that town. Yes, that would groan at first, but after they say it was for the BETTER. I think almost all mayors/kings would agree that this needs to be done.

Now, addressing your issue of not logging in for 5 minutes in 4 days. That's fine, you are not trying to start a town in the summer, and go back to school with enough money in the bank, and enough members in the town to keep it a float until Christmas Break, are you? That's my view of what many mayors/councils have tried & are succeeding at, and it's just plain wrong. Why should they be able to take away from the community, when they can not even represent themselves to prove their innocence ?

Yes it's true, People don't like change. Although, once it's implemented & time has been taken to adjust to the changes. It's hard to think of a time when, it could have been better without these changes.

Dielan9999

Always Ready For More Questions, ​

Canada_Blue.​

 

[Dielan9999]

That's fine, you are not trying to start a town in the summer, and go back to school with enough money in the bank, and enough members in the town to keep it a float until Christmas Break, are you?

As bad as that is, I'm not convinced anybody does it on purpose. I'm sure it happens though. Recently towns that don't have enough active members have been loosing regions (maybe regardless of what's in the townbank, I don't know for sure) and perhaps that is the answer.

The reason I suggest towns in early stages set up a chest with item taxes like a kingdom is because said chest HAS to be filled each week. You can't do that when you don't play.

 

[CanDoBlue]

As bad as that is, I'm not convinced anybody does it on purpose. I'm sure it happens though. Recently towns that don't have enough active members have been loosing regions (maybe regardless of what's in the townbank, I don't know for sure) and perhaps that is the answer.

The reason I suggest towns in early stages set up a chest with item taxes like a kingdom is because said chest HAS to be filled each week. You can't do that when you don't play.

Like a special chest? Like a chest that only Town Mayor/Council can fill? I like that idea. We would still need some to regulate & manage these chests.

 

[Dielan9999]

Like a special chest? Like a chest that only Town Mayor/Council can fill? I like that idea. We would still need some to regulate & manage these chests.

No I mean that's how kingdoms do it now

for example: We in OS have an LWC that only Xexo, Ironee, Bedwyr, and Myself can open that our weekly taxes are put into and every week on mondays the admins will open said chest and take all the items and place a sign on the chest confirming the date of the last payment.


It would be alot of work for staff if every hamlet and town had to have one like it with simpler items, so I am not sure if it is the best solution. However something that requires the town leaders/managers to get off their asses and do something, even as simple as filling a chest that empties out every week, I think would help determine which towns are alive and which are not+riding on old funds.

 

[CanDoBlue]

No I mean that's how kingdoms do it now

for example: We in OS have an LWC that only Xexo, Ironee, Bedwyr, and Myself can open that our weekly taxes are put into and every week on mondays the admins will open said chest and take all the items and place a sign on the chest confirming the date of the last payment.


It would be alot of work for staff if every hamlet and town had to have one like it with simpler items, so I am not sure if it is the best solution. However something that requires the town leaders/managers to get off their asses and do something, even as simple as filling a chest that empties out every week, I think would help determine which towns are alive and which are not+riding on old funds.

So we really need a Town Tax Collector. Anything like that for ALL towns, including Hamlets,Towns,Cities, and Capitals. I can fully support that.

 

[xexorian]

So we really need a Town Tax Collector. Anything like that for ALL towns, including Hamlets,Towns,Cities, and Capitals. I can fully support that.

I don't think that Kainzo really wants that staff position to exist. Much less, any others for a specific job that admins and mods can do. I think he'd rather not impose other requirements on the current staff positions. Plus, I will detail other methods that are far better for the community to use to manage their towns, rather than the STAFF. It also makes it extremely easy for staff to do a double check/verify each week.

Dielan, you know as well as I do that town will stockpile the extra items needed, just as they stockpile coin now. It will have no significant change on the system. All it will say is "Oh you have to go stockpile a town of logs, and coal, and obsidian." Ohh Booo whoo. Several Months worth of materials could be stockpiled by 5 players within 1 day. Then, we're right back to where we started.

I disagree. With 5 maxed players with professions and maxed enchanted tools with access to pre-made farms and other areas people already know about to collect the materials, then, "Yes, They can do it in about 24 hours IN-GAME." But, for new players this will take them a fairly decent amount of time, and they have to level up first, and work towards these goals. The cost of townships as they are, are ridiculously more expensive than they ever have been before.

It took me and a team of people, casually playing everyday, about 2 weeks to collect 8 weeks worth of kingdom taxes. Mind you, that was about 8-10 people working on it everyday, with random other donations.

Now, if we tightened the rules & regulations on towns and their activity among the citizens in that town. Yes, that would groan at first, but after they say it was for the BETTER. I think almost all mayors/kings would agree that this needs to be done.

I disagree entirely, they are fine as they are now, there are a couple of gripes, like removing stonebricks from the kingdom tax cost, and putting melons there, which is farmed, or potatoes, or carrots. Stonebricks are kind of easy to get and don't really require much effort, vs. going down to your farms and spending some time collecting stacks there, or much less having to build a farm and work it to get those dozens of stacks of mats each week.

I also say what you're trying to do is create yourself or another a staff position to manage townships so you can start one up easier and try to sell it off (again). We've talked before in TS3 and I've called you out for some sketchy stuff and behaviors like trying to sell OuterRim in the past.. or w/e town it was that you had made.

Now, addressing your issue of not logging in for 5 minutes in 4 days. That's fine, you are not trying to start a town in the summer, and go back to school with enough money in the bank, and enough members in the town to keep it a float until Christmas Break, are you? That's my view of what many mayors/councils have tried & are succeeding at, and it's just plain wrong.

Your view seems kind of ridiculous. I don't know of any townships that work like that except maybe one or two odd townships that have already lost their regions when Kainzo checked the activity of their members and removed them for that. (he does this pretty regularly since the plugin for it is broken atm.)

Why should they be able to take away from the community, when they can not even represent themselves to prove their innocence ?

I kind of fail to see what these people are taking away from the community? Here's what I've seen:
People band together and form towns -> if they go inactive too long, kainzo removes their regions in HTTP and -> new towns can start up. It seems to me as if the current setup is working pretty good. There are some changes I'd make to it, however.

Server-side Changes:

• Fix hc.to/LastSeen so we can create a "comma-separated list of citizens" every 2-4 weeks.
• Force Mayors/Kings to update their threads every 2-4 weeks with a "comma-separated citizen list" so it can be checked for activity. BUT, do not force mayors/kings to "do this or lose regions", instead, just let them update it on their own, and if they fail to add players to their list who can bump their activity then go by what they had as their old lists, and give them 7-14 days to fix their citizen lists to show the proper activity levels and charge them the "extra tax" to maintain it until it can be proven they have the proper things to maintain it, else they lose the region.
• Secondly, I also disagree with Dielan's suggestion, however, I feel that the HTTP banking system is fucked up and owners should be able to withdraw items from it while not in combat, so that we can;
  A) fix banking problems/withdraw "extras" we've accidentally wasted. (some people don't know how to check 13 pages for a non-sorted list item that is listed to make sure we already have it or not before they donate stuff.)
  B) Don't destroy millions of items out of the economy accidentally by doing so.
• Make a method to implement a town-check into the LastSeen function so staff can easily verify everyone in a "Comma-Separated List of Citizens" can be cross-referenced to the town who is claiming them as a citizen.

Perhaps add more features to the LastSeen, such as;

• Improved Search Functionality. Typing a town-name and bringing up a list of all their citizens automagically
• Improved Search Parameters. (Part of adding a town-check into the LastSeen.) Perhaps including class-checks and other data directly from the player database in the heroes' SQL files.
• Putting a cooldown on the LastSeen search so it can't be spammed to produce server-side lag.
• Improved Character Statistics. Having a searchable database of each in-game character so that each player can see all the classes, total experience, total blocks broken, etc. and other statistics measured and weighed against other members.
• Smart Titles. Have people with the most blocks broken, most pvp kills, etc. Automagically acquire new titles for being #1, and LOSE them when they are knocked out of #1. (No server-spamming messages though, we don't need to know this in-game when people bump someone out, because it can be abused to spam.)
• Have a cool-down on the update query for new information, perhaps on player logout/login? Since, that seems to be what data we're looking for anyway. Perhaps a method to implement this as laglessly as possible, such as pulling SQL database information from virtual ram, rather than the HD.
• Perhaps a method to force LastSeen to update from the HD vs. the Virtually Stored data still in memory.
• And any other common sense features that could be included to maximize the effectiveness and usefulness of such a tool-set for players and staff to use to moderate things easier.

 

[Predator2010]

I feel as though out of all the ideas Xexo has explored and thought about these the most, used reasonable solutions and thought these ideas through realistically.

Thats just my view, and from an unbiased viewpoint

 

[Danda]

• Secondly, I also disagree with Dielan's suggestion, however, I feel that the HTTP banking system is fucked up and owners should be able to withdraw items from it while not in combat, so that we can;
  A) fix banking problems/withdraw "extras" we've accidentally wasted. (some people don't know how to check 13 pages for a non-sorted list item that is listed to make sure we already have it or not before they donate stuff.)
  B) Don't destroy millions of items out of the economy accidentally by doing so.

This is too easily abused in my opinion however I do agree something needs to be added to allow you to clean out your bank list of all the random stupid crap people donate sometimes.

 

[MajorasMask]

This is too easily abused in my opinion however I do agree something needs to be added to allow you to clean out your bank list of all the random stupid crap people donate sometimes.

No. I donate dirt blocks because I care.

Yes it would be good. Is it possible for only town-upgrade items to be donatable..?

 

[Dielan9999]

Perhaps the ability to withdraw from a town bank should be left to the admins? Town owners can PE to have it done I suppose. Otherwise I'm sure it will be abused. Especially when it comes to raiding parties getting stomped and respawning at the GY. If the town owner was in the group they could just withdraw the weapons and armor necessary to re-gear. Of course, there are already people doing that at the forestspires GY using LWCs they can click into from the no-pvp zone, but that's a complaint for another day, and another thread. What I'm saying is that being able to withdraw, even when not in combat, can be used to bring the atrocities of the forestspires GY to EVERY GY.