Suggestion New Map, My Same Whining on Combat - Map 3, Part 3, the Re-Skillinating

[Dakinara]

Needless to say, if this was added in then nobody would actually heal their teammates as it would be more productive to focus on damage. (unless the heal is a layhands.) It would be hard to aim, and annoying. The server's lag is also random, meaning you cant gain skill in healing by aiming a bit ahead because you know where the person really is as the server might be lagging more that day then usual, and they are really a block ahead of where you're aiming.

again, every one of these arguments can be applied to every single target damage / debuff ability in herocraft. do people not use them because of lag? no, they seem to find ways to use them, it just involves a lot of button spamming when the lag is bad.

 

[Maggot713]

again, every one of these arguments can be applied to every single target damage / debuff ability in herocraft. do people not use them because of lag? no, they seem to find ways to use them, it just involves a lot of button spamming when the lag is bad.

Do you ever pvp? do you know how FUCKING HARD AS SHIT it is to heal without name binds? even if you dont accidentally heal yourself, lets say you waste 1-2 seconds healing someone, during that time they get bolted, or something, killing them before your warmup finished. This is a terrible idea, and you should stop.

 

[Dakinara]

Do you ever pvp? do you know how FUCKING HARD AS SHIT it is to heal without name binds? even if you dont accidentally heal yourself, lets say you waste 1-2 seconds healing someone, during that time they get bolted, or something, killing them before your warmup finished. This is a terrible idea, and you should stop.

look, everyone knows healing is currently dumb because you automatically self cast. Thats why macroing is currently needed. But if you get rid of auto self cast, it will be no different than offensive abilities, and then you dont need macros. You will aim with reticle.

i dunno what you are even talking about with the bolt thing. bolt requires targeting and has a warm up, heals "should" require targeting and have a warm up. If a guy finishes your target with bolt before you heal him, i guess he was just better at aiming than you!

 

[Rhapsodist]

again, every one of these arguments can be applied to every single target damage / debuff ability in herocraft. do people not use them because of lag? no, they seem to find ways to use them, it just involves a lot of button spamming when the lag is bad.

What you seem to be missing is this:
Targeted non-name bind attack spells work because: So what if you miss? you're still damaging SOMEONE on the other team, so it helps regardless.
Targeted non-name bind healing spells DON'T work because: If you heal the wrong person, you now wasted a heal and a team mate might die, so you're NOT helping anyone.

You can't compare the two, so please stop trying to.

 

[Dakinara]

What you seem to be missing is this:
Targeted non-name bind attack spells work because: So what if you miss? you're still damaging SOMEONE on the other team, so it helps regardless.
Targeted non-name bind healing spells DON'T work because: If you heal the wrong person, you now wasted a heal and a team mate might die, so you're NOT helping anyone.

You can't compare the two, so please stop trying to.

in a good team fight under current minecraft mechanics, if you target / damage the wrong person, its basically wasted because he will be automatically healed up by the ridiculous ammount of aoe heal spam being tossed around. You have to focus fire to kill people, and if you hit the wrong person, you basically wasted your spell.

Lets not forget heals have warm ups and can be cancelled immediately if you target the wrong person. Lets also not forget you are all terrible at aiming if you are constantly healing / targetting the wrong person!

 

[Maggot713]

look, everyone knows healing is currently dumb because you automatically self cast. Thats why macroing is currently needed. But if you get rid of auto self cast, it will be no different than offensive abilities, and then you dont need macros. You will aim with reticle.

i dunno what you are even talking about with the bolt thing. bolt requires targeting and has a warm up, heals "should" require targeting and have a warm up. If a guy finishes your target with bolt before you heal him, i guess he was just better at aiming than you!

relying on auto cast for self heals isnt safe, just name bind heal to yourself, what i was saying with the bolt was that the time spent attempting to use the shitty system for healing without a name bind + latency = heals being worthless (except AoE ones) are you trying to make no sense?

Lets also not forget you are all terrible at aiming if you are constantly healing / targetting the wrong person!

wtf are you even doing

 

[Dakinara]

relying on auto cast for self heals isnt safe, just name bind heal to yourself, what i was saying with the bolt was that the time spent attempting to use the shitty system for healing without a name bind + latency = heals being worthless (except AoE ones) are you trying to make no sense?

wtf are you even doing

imagine a world.... where heals are reconfigured so you have a few self cast heals, and other heals that DO NOT SELF CAST AND SO YOU DONT NEED MACROS. thats what im saying. The system is broken and needs to change because it is terrible and tab targetting basically where you have to make 20 keybinds everytime you group. Why do that when we have a reticle built in to allow aiming instead.

 

[Maggot713]

This wont help the "keybind problem" you're just going to have as many buttons bound. Let's say your party is all grouped onto each other, or running down a narrow corridor, how do you heal the player past the one in front of you? Without the 3rd person view, which I assume you used playing your mmos (nvm they probably used tab or clicked an enemy and then press buttons to kill them, few skillshots required) this is a problem. Having 20 keybinds is just something you have to deal with as a healer, it isnt that bad. Unless you are?

 

[Dakinara]

This wont help the "keybind problem" you're just going to have as many buttons bound. Let's say your party is all grouped onto each other, or running down a narrow corridor, how do you heal the player past the one in front of you? Without the 3rd person view, which I assume you used playing your mmos (nvm they probably used tab or clicked an enemy and then press buttons to kill them, few skillshots required) this is a problem. Having 20 keybinds is just something you have to deal with as a healer, it isnt that bad. Unless you are?

In a game with actual aiming requirements, positioning is important. How does the guy wanting to shoot a fireball on the other side hit the person 5 people back? he doesnt, why should the person healing be able to?

I dont think its actually possible to play minecraft combat in 3rd person in any real functional manner...

 

[Maggot713]

You win. you're just too fucking dense to comprehend. Too bad this isn't ever going to fucking happen.

 

[LordZelkova]

in a good team fight under current minecraft mechanics, if you target / damage the wrong person, its basically wasted because he will be automatically healed up by the ridiculous ammount of aoe heal spam being tossed around. You have to focus fire to kill people, and if you hit the wrong person, you basically wasted your spell.

Lets not forget heals have warm ups and can be cancelled immediately if you target the wrong person. Lets also not forget you are all terrible at aiming if you are constantly healing / targetting the wrong person!

AoE Heal Skills:
Healing Chorus: (15 + 0.45 per charisma point) health every 2 seconds over 10 seconds. ~28 hp every 2 seconds

Holy Aura (Paladin): Same as above, except heals for ~17 hp every 2 seconds.

Holy Aura (Cleric): (10 + 0.3125 per wisdom point) health every 2 seconds. Non-Self. 8 Heals. ~20 hp every 2 second
Holy Water: Party members including yourself within 7 blocks are healed for (60 + 1.875 per wisdom point) health ~116 HP every 14 seconds

Healing Bloom: Heal for (12 + 0.42 per wisdom point) health points every 2 seconds over 20 seconds ~25hp every 2 sec

BloodBond: While bound, you convert 30% of your magic damage into health (Drains 35 mana every 4 seconds, very mana heavy)

Fist of Jin: restores (3 + 0.2 per wisdom point) health to you, and (6 + 0.2 per wisdom point) per melee hit, at most twice a second. Returns ~7hp to you and ~10 to allies. At most, 20hp per second (Requires constant hitting of target though)
Chakra: Heals 107hp and removes 1 debuff

Healing totem: 27 hp every 2 seconds for 14 seconds at max level

Notice how the healers healing HEALING SKILLS? Notice how out of all the skills, a total of 9 are AoE Healing? And only 1 of them is an actual instant heal, 2 are passive skills (One of which drains a ton of mana).
Complaining about the AoE Heals (Most of which are HoT skills, so they can be out healed) is like complaining about DoTs or AoE attack spells.

Your constant insistence that everyone else sucks at aiming does not help your case as you just seem to be attacking anyone who doesn't love your idea of making HC healing more like MOBA healing.

 

[Dakinara]

AoE Heal Skills:
Healing Chorus: (15 + 0.45 per charisma point) health every 2 seconds over 10 seconds. ~28 hp every 2 seconds

Holy Aura (Paladin): Same as above, except heals for ~17 hp every 2 seconds.

Holy Aura (Cleric): (10 + 0.3125 per wisdom point) health every 2 seconds. Non-Self. 8 Heals. ~20 hp every 2 second
Holy Water: Party members including yourself within 7 blocks are healed for (60 + 1.875 per wisdom point) health ~116 HP every 14 seconds

Healing Bloom: Heal for (12 + 0.42 per wisdom point) health points every 2 seconds over 20 seconds ~25hp every 2 sec

BloodBond: While bound, you convert 30% of your magic damage into health (Drains 35 mana every 4 seconds, very mana heavy)

Fist of Jin: restores (3 + 0.2 per wisdom point) health to you, and (6 + 0.2 per wisdom point) per melee hit, at most twice a second. Returns ~7hp to you and ~10 to allies. At most, 20hp per second (Requires constant hitting of target though)
Chakra: Heals 107hp and removes 1 debuff

Healing totem: 27 hp every 2 seconds for 14 seconds at max level

Notice how the healers healing HEALING SKILLS? Notice how out of all the skills, a total of 9 are AoE Healing? And only 1 of them is an actual instant heal, 2 are passive skills (One of which drains a ton of mana).
Complaining about the AoE Heals (Most of which are HoT skills, so they can be out healed) is like complaining about DoTs or AoE attack spells.

Your constant insistence that everyone else sucks at aiming does not help your case as you just seem to be attacking anyone who doesn't love your idea of making HC healing more like MOBA healing.

Obviously my idea is not popular. It wasnt popular last map or the map before that. I will just have to wait for everquest next or whatever for a more sandboxy type game with a decent targeting based combat system, i guess.

However, aoe healing really is a problem, and has always been a problem since i have played. Why do you think everyone that wins the 5v5 tournaments rolls with 3-4 support? Add in to that the aoe heals have cooldowns very similar to single target, with similar overall healing and slighlty higher mana costs... its just not very well balanced at all.

 

[Rhapsodist]

Obviously my idea is not popular. It wasnt popular last map or the map before that. I will just have to wait for everquest next or whatever for a more sandboxy type game with a decent targeting based combat system, i guess.

However, aoe healing really is a problem, and has always been a problem since i have played. Why do you think everyone that wins the 5v5 tournaments rolls with 3-4 support? Add in to that the aoe heals have cooldowns very similar to single target, with similar overall healing and slighlty higher mana costs... its just not very well balanced at all.

I think the problem is the you're wanting to redo the entire combat system we have, and have no doubt a change like this would change tactics quite a lot, just to suit the kind of game YOU want. Nobody seems to agree with you, because we like the current combat system, or more likely, we just don't like your idea as a whole.

 

[LordZelkova]

Obviously my idea is not popular. It wasnt popular last map or the map before that. I will just have to wait for everquest next or whatever for a more sandboxy type game with a decent targeting based combat system, i guess.

However, aoe healing really is a problem, and has always been a problem since i have played. Why do you think everyone that wins the 5v5 tournaments rolls with 3-4 support? Add in to that the aoe heals have cooldowns very similar to single target, with similar overall healing and slighlty higher mana costs... its just not very well balanced at all.

In any game with healing, a group with 3-4 support skills (Healing, buffing, defuff, etc) will usually win against a less support group. Why? Because that's the point of a support skill. To keep the fighters alive. This isn't DnD where heals are useless and everyone just bashes shit in.
I will agree that AoE heals are a little strong, but not broken. And definitely not strong enough to be removed in favor or target only heals.
And maybe it would be a little more popular if you didn't attack everyone else by saying they just suck at aiming? This is fucking Minecraft. You deal with lag, bad framerates, bad latency, bugs, glitches, balance issues with the classes. Not everyone is gonna perfect at reticle aiming with the tiny ass dot that minecraft give you.

 

[Dakinara]

In any game with healing, a group with 3-4 support skills (Healing, buffing, defuff, etc) will usually win against a less support group. Why? Because that's the point of a support skill. To keep the fighters alive. This isn't DnD where heals are useless and everyone just bashes shit in.
I will agree that AoE heals are a little strong, but not broken. And definitely not strong enough to be removed in favor or target only heals.
And maybe it would be a little more popular if you didn't attack everyone else by saying they just suck at aiming? This is fucking Minecraft. You deal with lag, bad framerates, bad latency, bugs, glitches, balance issues with the classes. Not everyone is gonna perfect at reticle aiming with the tiny ass dot that minecraft give you.

The best competitive games i have played have support needed, but support stacking general is not very useful because other class types are needed just as much - the best groups have a relatively equal proportion of class roles. I dont think herocraft is at that point but combat is not the only focus of herocraft, and hasnt really had much focus since delf left to be honest.

If people want to keep the combat as is, so be it. Reticle aiming would be more "skillfull" and allow players to improve over time / demonstrate better mastery of difficult mechanics, but if thats not what people want, no reason to change it.

 

[Kainzo]

Honestly,
I liked the splash healing stuff of Holy Water -- etc so you didnt have to actually target but you had to aim.

It's possible to improve targeting but right now its shitty as fuck.

 

[LordZelkova]

The best competitive games i have played have support needed, but support stacking general is not very useful because other class types are needed just as much - the best groups have a relatively equal proportion of class roles. I dont think herocraft is at that point but combat is not the only focus of herocraft, and hasnt really had much focus since delf left to be honest.

If people want to keep the combat as is, so be it. Reticle aiming would be more "skillfull" and allow players to improve over time / demonstrate better mastery of difficult mechanics, but if thats not what people want, no reason to change it.

I really don't think reticle aiming will ever be good in minecraft, just because of the way it is

 

[Dakinara]

Honestly,
I liked the splash healing stuff of Holy Water -- etc so you didnt have to actually target but you had to aim.

It's possible to improve targeting but right now its shitty as fuck.

yeah i really liked holy water, bone spear, a lot of pyro skill additions, they were all very cool.