Suggestion Monthly Check In -- why are players not staying?

[0xNaomi]

I haven't seen many people go out of their way to hunt/camp a noob unless they are sitting at a town or waiting on a deathchest.

The main reason these noobs are dying all the time is that they end up in the wrong places, herogates. The herogates are completely free at the moment meaning any noob fresh on the server is more likely to run through one of those portals than down one of the four roads. Close to every noob I've killed was found by the herogate (maybe a few at some towns).

Simple solution make herogates cost some money so that noobs aren't able to immediately go to these 'hotspots'.

But... then people would just camp the roads instead to hunt noobs.

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

[15:55:33] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dwanna §dgo §dlvl?
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “wanna go lvl?)

[15:56:30] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dDo §dyou §dneed §da §dtown?
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “Do you need a town?”)

[15:56:50] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dWhere §du §that, §dI §dcan §dshow §du §dmine §dif §du §dwant
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “I can show you mine if you want”)

[15:57:30] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dcome §dwith §dme §dI'll §dshow §du §dmy §dtown §dand §du §dcan §djoin §dit §dif §du §dlike §dit
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “come with me I’ll show you my town and u can join if u like it”)

[15:58:22] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§ddo §du §dwant §da §dtown §dor §dnot
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “do u want a town or not”)

[16:03:58] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been burned by a Rune of Fire!


[16:03:59] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been cursed by a Runeword!


[16:04:00] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been burned by a Rune of Fire!


[16:04:02] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been poisoned by a Rune of Toxicity!


[16:04:02] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been burned by a Rune of Fire!


[16:04:04] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been slowed by a Rune of Ice!


[16:04:05] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been silenced by a Rune of Void!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight is no longer slowed!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight is no longer silenced!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Cenotaph] Inv stored. Security: LWC SecTime: 06:00 BreakTime: 20:00 BreakOverride: Break on empty


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] The Runeword's curse fades from Maxim_V_Midnight!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has recovered from the poison!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Bounty] [Warlord]Ritzierbenn[FAT] has collected a bounty on Maxim_V_Midnight for 333.00 Coins!

***A NEW BOUNTY HAS BEEN PLACED***

Yep. I just got bounced from one sequence of harassment, and thrown into the next.


Half the time, I'm not even aware the Terrorists have bountied me again.

Here is what everyone joining past a certain date (2014'ish, a year before my arrival) learns:

*** If you get a town invite, and go to check it out, you get killed and looted
*** If you are asked to party and join a dungeon raid, you get killed and looted
*** If you go mining, you get killed and looted
*** If you try and find people to help you level (because you're being bullied), you get killed and looted
*** If you just hang around Spawn, you're left alone, but WTF kind of gaming experience is just sitting on your thumbs in Spawn?
*** Nobody cares if you report it, and calls you "DRAMA" for even bringing it up.

Newbies don't deserve to be crucified, just because they joined the game past a certain date.

Here are some good deterrants:

• Place a 48 hour cooldown between bounties a player can place. Nobody has any need to place 10 bounties in a 2 day period, especially when virtually all of the aggression is aimed NOT at the Vets, but at the NEWBIES *BY* the Vets.
• Make someone immune to bounties for 72 hours after having had a bounty collected on them
• Temporary Ban for Lv60 players found camping players who haven't even made it to lv10 yet.
• Make it a Bannable Offense for someone to use the Recruitment or Trade Channel to PK/Loot people
• ....make it so players stop getting Muted for bringing attention to this asshattery.

If LordZelkova, LarryDeCable or _Rihawk tell say "HEY, such-and-such is a SERIOUS problem on Herocraft", the Lead Admins stop and listen.

Any of us newer players say THE EXACT SAME, and we get Muted, or just told to shut up and take the savagery quietly. That tells us "Hey, we don't want new players....we want the same old people we've had for the past few years, and anyone new can just shut up and take the abuse, or quit".

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

@j2gay wrote:
Camping and the other negative PvP or chat behaviors that are so rampant on HC nowadays have always been a presence on the server. However, when I first joined HC this behavior was balanced and counteracted by an equally large group of players and towns that would aid and assist new/weaker players. There was a balanced struggle between good and evil that made the server fun and interesting to play. They fear of being harassed was counteracted by the possibility of joining a safe community.

Over the years, mostly at the insistence of a vocal minority, changes have been made that benefited the evil forces (those engaging in negative behaviors) at the expense of the good forces (those engaging in positive behaviors). As the changes made it increasingly difficult to play as a positive force for good the players providing that service either left or switched sides. These changes where often made to satisfy what seemed to be the will of the community. However the community generally lacks the foresight to understand what the long term consequences of their current gratification may be. (Think history of Athens)

A server that is all fruit and flowers is boring for many and will have a low population. A server that is all sorrow and hardship is toxic and will have a low population. A balance must be maintained. HC had that balance once long ago. That balance was sacrificed and we are now seeing the results. Something must be done to restore the balance until enough good players either return or are developed to maintain it.

@radicater11 wrote:
The issue is, there is a lot more evil than good now, and even though Ybiewen is striving to grow large enough to do this, we can't even finish a section of our wall without having parties of 7 or more attack our guard party of 4-5.

@Irishman81 wrote:
If we don't have a system that encourages players to work together towards large townships/kingdoms, along with a lack of players who are willing to help the new guys out, the server will always resort back to uncontrollable noob camping.

I wasn't around for this, but this is what I've heard from other players (such as the groups I used to play with) who HAD been here longer. Of course, they've all up and quit by this point...I don't guess it's all that fun to be the only 3-6 guys trying to be Mentors and Guides to newer players, and getting attacked and brutalized by the 30+ tryhards who come online to take out their hostility at life out on people who aren't standing a foot away from them, staring them straight in the eye.

The people who can't be made to act right, unless you're in their face, looking them in the eye, don't do any Community they're in any good.

You said if we performed the 20-30 Bans on Offenders it'd take to correct the server's toxicity, we'd only have maybe 20 people left...

Well, 20 people, and the 40+ who quit because of the server's toxic vibe, who could be talked into returning once things were balanced out.

@Wild_Porygon wrote:
Posts like this will get you camped more. Lets aggravate pvpers, get killed, complain heavily and spam their tells, then go ask to ban them in the forums. You'd be starting mass banwaves leaving 20 people on the server

Don't be so vague and indirect. I saw someone (it seemed) STALKING you, so I tried to WARN you about it, and followed the person following YOU. You ignored my PMs, then started ATTACKING me when I arrived. The person following you, turns out, was an accomplice of yours, and THEY joined in the one-sided savagery.

The way Herocraft is now, says "No good act will ever go unpunished, no newcomer will ever be treated anything but cruelly, and nobody with sufficient rank to END it has *any* interest in doing so"..

 

[Ice]

I feel like there would be more PvP if all the veteran PvPers didn't always team up against the underdogs.

I was in Indar during Valorium so I knew firsthand what it was like. When Freeps quit there was barely anyone to have a good fight against.

I'm not trying to call out people either. I just think, PvP wise, there needs to be way more groups that actively PvP and don't get pubstomped, leading them to quit after a few days. So far, this map, there's a decent spread of people wanting to PvP and I've been able to tag along with some a few times. History repeats itself and it's only a matter of time before some of the smaller PvP groups leave and the remainder merge into a megatown with the competent PvPers.

Which leads to the main point. How can we have these players stay? I'd suggest having either guides and proctors take on the role of mentors to new players and teach them how to PvP. Either that or implement a new staff position that focuses solely on "training" new players so they know the basics. Or we can get another person like Ahrall to make video guides and class guides. Some food for thought

 

[Egorh]

But... then people would just camp the roads instead to hunt noobs.

That is somewhat inevitable but you need to realize that people don't sit at herogates waiting to kill noobs (although some may). They sit there because it is the quickest way to get around/boredom.

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

@radicater11 wrote:
If you're bored, go play another game instead of ruining a noob's experience.

Also, I noticed some people are troll-rating posts that are Anti-Camping, and that speak out against groups of lv60s habitually stomping newbs, which is causing those posts to get hidden from their respective threads.

The people doing it are, no less, the people ADVOCATING Vet-on-Newb abuse.

These folks will have to pardon my sanity, as it makes it impossible for me to understand where someone is coming from, when they condone any kind of harassment and cruelty dealt to people with insufficient means to fight back, or defend themselves.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

[15:55:33] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dwanna §dgo §dlvl?
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “wanna go lvl?)

[15:56:30] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dDo §dyou §dneed §da §dtown?
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “Do you need a town?”)

[15:56:50] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dWhere §du §that, §dI §dcan §dshow §du §dmine §dif §du §dwant
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “I can show you mine if you want”)

[15:57:30] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§dcome §dwith §dme §dI'll §dshow §du §dmy §dtown §dand §du §dcan §djoin §dit §dif §du §dlike §dit
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “come with me I’ll show you my town and u can join if u like it”)

[15:58:22] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] §dFrom §6§6Ritzierbenn§d: §d§ddo §du §dwant §da §dtown §dor §dnot
(PM from Ritzierbenn: “do u want a town or not”)

[16:03:58] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been burned by a Rune of Fire!


[16:03:59] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been cursed by a Runeword!


[16:04:00] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been burned by a Rune of Fire!


[16:04:02] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been poisoned by a Rune of Toxicity!


[16:04:02] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been burned by a Rune of Fire!


[16:04:04] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been slowed by a Rune of Ice!


[16:04:05] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has been silenced by a Rune of Void!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight is no longer slowed!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight is no longer silenced!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Cenotaph] Inv stored. Security: LWC SecTime: 06:00 BreakTime: 20:00 BreakOverride: Break on empty


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] The Runeword's curse fades from Maxim_V_Midnight!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Skill] Maxim_V_Midnight has recovered from the poison!


[16:04:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Bounty] [Warlord]Ritzierbenn[FAT] has collected a bounty on Maxim_V_Midnight for 333.00 Coins!

***A NEW BOUNTY HAS BEEN PLACED***

Yep. I just got bounced from one sequence of harassment, and thrown into the next.


Half the time, I'm not even aware the Terrorists have bountied me again.

Here is what everyone joining past a certain date (2014'ish, a year before my arrival) learns:

*** If you get a town invite, and go to check it out, you get killed and looted
*** If you are asked to party and join a dungeon raid, you get killed and looted
*** If you go mining, you get killed and looted
*** If you try and find people to help you level (because you're being bullied), you get killed and looted
*** If you just hang around Spawn, you're left alone, but WTF kind of gaming experience is just sitting on your thumbs in Spawn?
*** Nobody cares if you report it, and calls you "DRAMA" for even bringing it up.

Newbies don't deserve to be crucified, just because they joined the game past a certain date.

Here are some good deterrants:

• Place a 48 hour cooldown between bounties a player can place. Nobody has any need to place 10 bounties in a 2 day period, especially when virtually all of the aggression is aimed NOT at the Vets, but at the NEWBIES *BY* the Vets.
• Make someone immune to bounties for 72 hours after having had a bounty collected on them
• Temporary Ban for Lv60 players found camping players who haven't even made it to lv10 yet.
• Make it a Bannable Offense for someone to use the Recruitment or Trade Channel to PK/Loot people
• ....make it so players stop getting Muted for bringing attention to this asshattery.

If LordZelkova, LarryDeCable or _Rihawk tell say "HEY, such-and-such is a SERIOUS problem on Herocraft", the Lead Admins stop and listen.

Any of us newer players say THE EXACT SAME, and we get Muted, or just told to shut up and take the savagery quietly. That tells us "Hey, we don't want new players....we want the same old people we've had for the past few years, and anyone new can just shut up and take the abuse, or quit".

I'm just going to mention my experience when joining. I originally joined nearly 3 years ago but it was for like 2 days, and I only actively started playing with the start of the last map. I made a well hidden home, got some items, and familiarized myself with the plugin. Once I got some experience I joined a town. Once I kinda rebelled against that town and was kicked, I got a new town.

Not once was I camped. Not once was I targeted. I talked on o chat and gave my opinion on stuff, but I was never attacked in any way. I really think that this is more of a you problem.

Sure there is a lot of camping of herogates and groups of PvPers that will attack anyone they meet, but I think there are some ways to fix this. We need to get towns to hate each other (in a friendly, good sporting kind of way).

We get big alliances/nations, we get the war system back up with more frequent events. If one nation attacks a town, we all rush in to help defend them. That is how we get some good PvP back up.

Can't we all just get along and not get along?

 

[Trazil]

Also, I noticed some people are troll-rating posts that are Anti-Camping, and that speak out against groups of lv60s habitually stomping newbs, which is causing those posts to get hidden from their respective threads.

The people doing it are, no less, the people ADVOCATING Vet-on-Newb abuse.

These folks will have to pardon my sanity, as it makes it impossible for me to understand where someone is coming from, when they condone any kind of harassment and cruelty dealt to people with insufficient means to fight back, or defend themselves.

All I'm going to say is that it's the shit you post, your "poor me" attitude towards everything, your EXTREME dramatization of everything bad that happens instead of anything good, your attitude and how rude you are to the community and its staff members and lastly your almost troll-like statements are what get you bountied.

Btw I'm not advocating for camping new players as you can see in any of my previous posts, ratings are there for a reason however. Also your point about being muted for expressing your opinions is totally untrue, you get muted for starting huge flame wars, insulting the server/Kainzo or anything else after being told to take it to the forums.

Onto your actual suggestion...
The ONLY player I've seen ever getting a bounty when they first get on in over 3 years of playing this server was Tully. That's also because they are a YouTuber that was hired for the server. In that case I think your bounty suggestions are extremely dramatized and I don't agree with them at all.

 

[Jackrox256]

Also, I noticed some people are troll-rating posts that are Anti-Camping, and that speak out against groups of lv60s habitually stomping newbs, which is causing those posts to get hidden from their respective threads.

The people doing it are, no less, the people ADVOCATING Vet-on-Newb abuse.

These folks will have to pardon my sanity, as it makes it impossible for me to understand where someone is coming from, when they condone any kind of harassment and cruelty dealt to people with insufficient means to fight back, or defend themselves.

I've gotten camped, I've gotten horribly killed, I've gotten 5v1ed with no hope of survival, I've talked and been nice AND been mean in o chat.

Never once have I ever experienced being bounty spammed like you have claimed, and despite the date of my joining the server, I'm basically a noob at this point. Whatever problem you are having most likely has as much to do with as the people killing you.

I agree that noob camping and killing is a problem, but I don't think it is as bad as you are making it. Or at least it is ONLY as bad as it is for you personally. Though I have never witnessed the abuse you claim, but others that have seem to think it is not to do with you being new, but something else.

Honestly, all my suggestions for anything have been suggested already. I just wanted to get this off my chest.

tl;dr: As a non-PvPer I have one thing to say: Suck it up, princess.

 

[LightTheAbsol]

tl;dr: As a non-PvPer I have one thing to say: Suck it up, princess.

I fucking love you.

 

[radicater11]

I fucking love you.

I love him and his shitty Aussie internet.

 

[LordZelkova]

I hate being camped, but it's def not as common as some try to say it is.

There's a ton of PvP around my town this map, and I'd love to not hide, but I'm level 7 so it's not fun fighting for now. We get camped for a bit, they leave pretty quick.

I've seen cases of repeated camping of one person, but those are very very rare and only happen occasionally, if ever.

 

[Delikin]

High levels / Veterans are camping newbies off the server.
I have two suggestions to combat this
1. Institute a police force/guard unit. You could start by conscripting the guides and proctors as the guard could fill these roles as well.
Guards would be a server staff playable class organized in a military like heirarchy. I would suggest Jr. Guard as an into/trial period class. Guard would be the rank of most of the unit. There would be a few senior guards to lead unit based combat.
A junior guard would be capable, if a skilled pvper, of soloing two max level tier 2 players comfortably, a guard three and a senior guard 4.
Members of the guard would be forbidden from initiating PvP except in response to campers, noob slayers, and bullies.
Penalty for abusing guard powers/responsibilities would be expulsion from the guard and temp ban(length tbd)

Some may be Leary about the idea of introducing an OP staff class for fear of abuse however I think the benefits will far outweigh the risks.
First the mere existence of the guard should reduce the duration of camping sessions in most cases. Small groups of noob campers (say 5 or Less) would be forced to move on from any one spot quickly for fear of provoking a response from the guard, introducing a new and potentially fun/interesting dynamic to alleviate some of the proclaimed boredom.
Secondly large groups of pvpers might intentionally provoke the guard, creating the potential for some epic mass PvP battles which should be fun for both members of the guard and those who provoke them
A third potential benefit is that towns that currently hide from PvP because they get creamed might be more willing to engage in battle if they believe help may come if the fight goes incredibly badly or devolves into a bullying session. Coincidentally this would also likely result in less bitching and whining in the chat, another problem you are trying to address.
There are other potential benefits as well but I won't get into all of them now for risk of rambling on. What I will say is that this system if done properly, and I would be glad to assist in seeing it done properly, offers benefit to most at the expense of few or none. The only people who might be angered by such a system are those who like to dish it out but can't take it, otherwise known as bullies, who you probably don't want constituting a large portion of the player base any way.

2. Bring back the whitelist. Why?
It creates a perception of exclusivity

It forces new players to learn about the server and it's mechanics before playing. Cutting out part of the learning curve and eliminating culture shock

The whitelist creates excitement and anticipation. While waiting to be accepted players learn about the server and begin planning what class they will play. They become invested in the server and will be more likely to stick out a few hard times. Will you reduce slightly the number of new players joining? Yes. However the number of new players who stick around will be higher as they will have already invested a good deal of time and energy.

New players are unable to level without being killed.
See suggestion 1 above. An additional role for the guard could be to lead leveling parties of new players, keeping them safe and creating a fun and rewarding experience for all involved. This would also increase player interaction/interdependence and contribute to a sense of community.

New players don't understand the systems & The systems are too complex
See suggestion 2 above

There is little high-end past max level
See suggestion 1 above. Giving veteran players new purpose will help keep them on the server. While a guard barracks at spawn would be a neat guards who earn a name for being exceptional could be recruited by towns, perhaps even receiving free housing and a salary. This could create competition between guards to be the best and competition between towns to attract guards and with them prestige another value added interest/dynamic.

Create an actual economy through meaningful crafting restrictions. This would require some class revamping to work properly. Here is how it could work:
Reinstitute lost soul with some added combat potency and a more restrictive crafting abilities
Upon mastering lost soul players can enter a one profession, combat or crafting. The current professions could be divided into two tiers, the combat classes could stay as is but made into professions. Upon mastering a tier two profession, combat or crafting, a player can coose another profession combat or crafting. This would increase time to mastery and give players a reason to keep logging in. Also it would give the crafting professions an actual purpose, making chest shops viable and creating another reason to login.

Chat is Toxic and deters people from Role Play or joining into conversations
Mute occ by default for new players so you have to join it to see it.
Much swifter and stronger enforcement of existing chat rules is needed in all chats

There's too much inflation with little need to actually spend coins.
An admin shop can help regulate an economy and set a basic price structure. It cannot fight inflation. There are two things needed to fight inflation:
1. Bring back the gold standard. Souls can stay at a substantial value reduction but the best way to keep the value of currency high is to base it on a finite commodity. Additional items could also be used such as diamond or iron but gold or emerald, having little actual use are the best candidates.
2. Create an actual economy as I suggested above. Currently on HC there is little need for money aside from towns, personal protections, and less. The only market trading that takes place is for convenience/laziness or preference I.e. purchase of luxury items that are nice to have but not necessary to the game. Whether irl or in an RPG an economy can only flourish when it is, if not necessary then highly favored, for individuals to trade the produce of their labour to others for the produce of another's labour(or its equivalent money price) in order to supply themselves with the necessities of life. Only when one individual either cannot produce certain necessary commodities, or others can produce them so much cheaper that it would be unwise to produce them at home, do economies grow and thrive. A strong economy raises prices and lowers inflation.

There's no reason to log in every day.
I won't harp on the need for an economy anymore except to say that a thriving chest shop is enough to give make many players login everyday. Also creating interdependence among players creates a feeling of responsibility to be present. If no one is counting on you why bother showing up.
All of these suggestions could be implemented with little or no modifications to the existing plugins mechanics.

If you have an interest in applying any of these suggestions and would like additional information on how they could work or how to set them up let me know. I have a pretty good working knowledge of the heroes plugin as well as most of the other plugins you are running.

IHC is billed as an RPG server. However right now it is more of a log in and do your own thing server, which can get quite boring and contribute to many of the issues you are having. Add some epic aspects so that everyone has a role an feels the need to fill it.

I really, really, really, realllllllly like the gaurd idea. I've been sitting around herogates for hour at a time just trying to keep the camping vets off of new player's backs. It's kind of stupid of me to do TBH because most of the time there's no chance I can even compete with the groups of 3-4 that sit there and wait. But if something like the guard system were to exist, it would make the server both more interesting, and more enjoyable for new players. You could even introduce a bandit/innocent type system into it as a replacement for the ELO system. Killing players who are innocent/have less spontaneous/random/raiding/stealing kills would give you more idk, karma or something. This would add a whole new level of play to the server and would be very interesting. Obviously you'd have to seriously moderate the hell out of the guards but I think it would be really cool.

EDIT: If anyone wants to make a kingdom/group of players that help defend/teach the noobs like Irish was talking about. Send me a pm or something. I've wanted to do something like that for a while but couldn't find the man-power to accomplish it myself.

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

I love when people say "It's not as big an issue", or "It's not as big of a problem", just because you're getting only a small portion of what others have got. We don't retain players, because nobody knows how to treat them. Not everyone gets off on excessive use of poop, "rekt" and "rip" remarks, and random declarations of "We must ban the use of Dihydrogen Monoxide", and "go kill yourself, noob". THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR. This is the toxic culmination of the Gamer Subculture going to hell and a handbasket, and irreverence going from barbs and satire to people behaving like complete fools.

It's just...speaking from the standpoint of a functional, professional and gainfully-employed adult with several years of Customer Service under my belt, I CANNOT CONCEIVE of ANY way to bend, twist, or warp the behavior I've seen into something that is acceptable. You know most of this behavior is criminal, if done offline, right? If it's made it so far as being an offense punishable by jail or prison time, why are you still convinced it's okay to come online and do it? Why, because Kainzo says he won't ban anyone for it? Do you have to be THREATENED with serious action to act like civilized human beings?!

You say "this is a game". Maybe for you, but not for the people you torment. Bullies have a thousand excuses for what they do, but their victims will be the first to tell you how toxic, harmful and damaging that behavior is.

I don't know any successful Game companies (Square Enix, Bethesda, etc) who manufacture games where you continue dying at the starting point, with no option of getting any farther, or progress, or leveling your character, or where you are offered no opportunities to get back the things you lost, or where your only 'gameplay experience' is DYING repeatedly.


I have SEEN Herocraft be fun, I have SEEN it be rewarding. True, much of this occurred when we were in limbo, waiting for the new SERVER to come out, and the Bounty plugin was disabled.... but, back when we had people who felt there was a point in fighting off the sickos who come online to ruin everyone else's day, there were times when ANYONE could join, get the help and guidance they needed, and have a FUN TIME on Herocraft.

I seriously.... *smh* ... I cannot comprehend what goes through someone's mind, when they get offended at being told that their bullying needs to stop, or they get butthurt because we say we want as much of a chance to develop our characters as THEY got.

And "Oh, the dog cried when we kicked it, so we thought it'd be fun to KEEP kicking it" isn't going to fly with me, as justification for verbal and emotional abuse.

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

@Delikin EDIT: If anyone wants to make a kingdom/group of players that help defend/teach the noobs like Irish was talking about. Send me a pm or something. I've wanted to do something like that for a while but couldn't find the man-power to accomplish it myself.

If I can level past 9 (I would LOVE to see what it's like having a few Skills under my belt), I would love to help with something like this. You're not the only one who wants to make Herocraft playable for more than just the people who want to see the world burn..

I could even endure the torment and harassment better, if I knew my struggles were for a good cause.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

I love when people say "It's not as big an issue", or "It's not as big of a problem", just because you're getting only a small portion of what others have got. We don't retain players, because nobody knows how to treat them. Not everyone gets off on excessive use of poop, "rekt" and "rip" remarks, and random declarations of "We must ban the use of Dihydrogen Monoxide", and "go kill yourself, noob". THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR. This is the toxic culmination of the Gamer Subculture going to hell and a handbasket, and irreverence going from barbs and satire to people behaving like complete fools.

It's just...speaking from the standpoint of a functional, professional and gainfully-employed adult with several years of Customer Service under my belt, I CANNOT CONCEIVE of ANY way to bend, twist, or warp the behavior I've seen into something that is acceptable. You know most of this behavior is criminal, if done offline, right? If it's made it so far as being an offense punishable by jail or prison time, why are you still convinced it's okay to come online and do it? Why, because Kainzo says he won't ban anyone for it? Do you have to be THREATENED with serious action to act like civilized human beings?!

You say "this is a game". Maybe for you, but not for the people you torment. Bullies have a thousand excuses for what they do, but their victims will be the first to tell you how toxic, harmful and damaging that behavior is.

I don't know any successful Game companies (Square Enix, Bethesda, etc) who manufacture games where you continue dying at the starting point, with no option of getting any farther, or progress, or leveling your character, or where you are offered no opportunities to get back the things you lost, or where your only 'gameplay experience' is DYING repeatedly.


I have SEEN Herocraft be fun, I have SEEN it be rewarding. True, much of this occurred when we were in limbo, waiting for the new SERVER to come out, and the Bounty plugin was disabled.... but, back when we had people who felt there was a point in fighting off the sickos who come online to ruin everyone else's day, there were times when ANYONE could join, get the help and guidance they needed, and have a FUN TIME on Herocraft.

I seriously.... *smh* ... I cannot comprehend what goes through someone's mind, when they get offended at being told that their bullying needs to stop, or they get butthurt because we say we want as much of a chance to develop our characters as THEY got.

And "Oh, the dog cried when we kicked it, so we thought it'd be fun to KEEP kicking it" isn't going to fly with me, as justification for verbal and emotional abuse.

I'll reply by paragraph.

1-2: It's a game and jokes are made. Yes it is toxic, but no one is actually rooting for noobs to kill themselves and everyone fucking knows it, including the noobs.

3. I've been bullied IRL. I went to a dark place and I was on the edge and after a year of it I was on the edge of breaking. Years later, you know what I think? It built character. I'm way less of a cocky asshole as I was and it added perspective. Kids these days are too soft.

4. I haven't played it, but I hear Dark Souls III is pretty unforgiving to noobs.

5-6: No one thinks any of what you're talking about. You're cocky. You think you're better than everyone here and it shows. In all the time I've been on the server I've never seen anyone verbally be a jerk to a new player unless they were spamming, going all caps, or being the first to throw insults. All of these problems are isolated to you and maybe one or two others, and it is because you don't like the people on this server and they don't like you.

This is all no longer helpful. Let's stop the arguing in this suggestion thread. Any more beef can be taken care of in a PM.

 

[j2gay]

I love when people say "It's not as big an issue", or "It's not as big of a problem", just because you're getting only a small portion of what others have got. We don't retain players, because nobody knows how to treat them. Not everyone gets off on excessive use of poop, "rekt" and "rip" remarks, and random declarations of "We must ban the use of Dihydrogen Monoxide", and "go kill yourself, noob". THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR. This is the toxic culmination of the Gamer Subculture going to hell and a handbasket, and irreverence going from barbs and satire to people behaving like complete fools.

It's just...speaking from the standpoint of a functional, professional and gainfully-employed adult with several years of Customer Service under my belt, I CANNOT CONCEIVE of ANY way to bend, twist, or warp the behavior I've seen into something that is acceptable. You know most of this behavior is criminal, if done offline, right? If it's made it so far as being an offense punishable by jail or prison time, why are you still convinced it's okay to come online and do it? Why, because Kainzo says he won't ban anyone for it? Do you have to be THREATENED with serious action to act like civilized human beings?!

You say "this is a game". Maybe for you, but not for the people you torment. Bullies have a thousand excuses for what they do, but their victims will be the first to tell you how toxic, harmful and damaging that behavior is.

I don't know any successful Game companies (Square Enix, Bethesda, etc) who manufacture games where you continue dying at the starting point, with no option of getting any farther, or progress, or leveling your character, or where you are offered no opportunities to get back the things you lost, or where your only 'gameplay experience' is DYING repeatedly.


I have SEEN Herocraft be fun, I have SEEN it be rewarding. True, much of this occurred when we were in limbo, waiting for the new SERVER to come out, and the Bounty plugin was disabled.... but, back when we had people who felt there was a point in fighting off the sickos who come online to ruin everyone else's day, there were times when ANYONE could join, get the help and guidance they needed, and have a FUN TIME on Herocraft.

I seriously.... *smh* ... I cannot comprehend what goes through someone's mind, when they get offended at being told that their bullying needs to stop, or they get butthurt because we say we want as much of a chance to develop our characters as THEY got.

And "Oh, the dog cried when we kicked it, so we thought it'd be fun to KEEP kicking it" isn't going to fly with me, as justification for verbal and emotional abuse.

Any online game will have these type of players/behaviors. If well managed and balanced against it can be an interesting element to the game. The issue is that to retain players you need 60-80% good players and 20-40% bad players. HC has evolved over the last few years to be about 80-90% bad players. If the server wants to retain players something will need to be done to bring back the balance and keep things interesting.

The over abundance of slaughter isn't interesting and the player count reflects it.

 

[j2gay]

I'll reply by paragraph.

1-2: It's a game and jokes are made. Yes it is toxic, but no one is actually rooting for noobs to kill themselves and everyone fucking knows it, including the noobs.

3. I've been bullied IRL. I went to a dark place and I was on the edge and after a year of it I was on the edge of breaking. Years later, you know what I think? It built character. I'm way less of a cocky asshole as I was and it added perspective. Kids these days are too soft.

4. I haven't played it, but I hear Dark Souls III is pretty unforgiving to noobs.

5-6: No one thinks any of what you're talking about. You're cocky. You think you're better than everyone here and it shows. In all the time I've been on the server I've never seen anyone verbally be a jerk to a new player unless they were spamming, going all caps, or being the first to throw insults. All of these problems are isolated to you and maybe one or two others, and it is because you don't like the people on this server and they don't like you.

This is all no longer helpful. Let's stop the arguing in this suggestion thread. Any more beef can be taken care of in a PM.

Just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it isn't happening. I have been on HC a long time andI have seen many new players as well older players that prefer building to fighting leave the server because they were harassed to the point where it just wasn't fun to play. These were not whiny babies they just got tired of playing on a server where you can rarely venture out of a safe zone without being gang stomped.

Herocraft is supposed to be an RPG. The wilds should be fraught with danger. However there is a difference between dangerous, which is interesting and exciting, and impassable, which is demoralizing and inspires people to log out.

If HC wants more players to stay then it will have to do something to combat the behaviors that are chasing players from the server.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

Just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it isn't happening. I have been on HC a long time andI have seen many new players as well older players that prefer building to fighting leave the server because they were harassed to the point where it just wasn't fun to play. These were not whiny babies they just got tired of playing on a server where you can rarely venture out of a safe zone without being gang stomped.

Herocraft is supposed to be an RPG. The wilds should be fraught with danger. However there is a difference between dangerous, which is interesting and exciting, and impassable, which is demoralizing and inspires people to log out.

If HC wants more players to stay then it will have to do something to combat the behaviors that are chasing players from the server.

I'm not talking about older players, I'm talking about noobs. I've seen a few of the older players harassed as well, but I wasn't talking about them.

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

I'm not talking about older players, I'm talking about noobs. I've seen a few of the older players harassed as well, but I wasn't talking about them.

I'm not an "older player". My oldest name on this server, XARXU, isn't even a year old, and I'm usually too swamped with work and IRL obligations to play the game.

I am one of the "authentic noobs" mentioned in this thread. Believe me, if I didn't have balls of steel, I'd have quit along with the others.