Suggestion Make War Put Entire PvE Continent in PvP

[j2gay]

That's what they did when PVE was added

That's simply not accurate. PvE was added in response to a mass exodus of players that was already happening.

Most of the players who where contributing value to the server were leaving due to the classless/bullying style of PvP that was becoming common place at the time.

The classless PvP'ers then became bored because of a lack of easy prey and left. Those PvP'ers that had some class, and the die hard veteran PvP indifferent types. Then began leaving as well.

For the rest of the statement refer to my snake bite post above.

 

[Irishman81]

That's simply not accurate. PvE was added in response to a mass exodus of players that was already happening.

Most of the players who where contributing value to the server were leaving due to the classless/bullying style of PvP that was becoming common place at the time.

The classless PvP'ers then became bored because of a lack of easy prey and left. Those PvP'ers that had some class, and the die hard veteran PvP indifferent types. Then began leaving as well.

For the rest of the statement refer to my snake bite post above.

Honestly the people started leaving 2nd or third month of haven, and that was not due the Pvp. Some people didn't like what was being added and the direction the server was headed, so they left. My response to those who say PVE was the solution to the problem is that an average of 0-15 people played on the pve server during the course of haven.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

My response to those who say PVE was the solution to the problem is that an average of 0-15 people played on the pve server during the course of haven.

Erm, wasn't Haven the one with the unplayable PvE server, ie the amplified landscape? Even I didn't manage to play that one, lol.

 

[LordZelkova]

Erm, wasn't Haven the one with the unplayable PvE server, ie the amplified landscape? Even I didn't manage to play that one, lol.

Yes, it was. And oh god it was horrific.

Honestly the people started leaving 2nd or third month of haven, and that was not due the Pvp. Some people didn't like what was being added and the direction the server was headed, so they left. My response to those who say PVE was the solution to the problem is that an average of 0-15 people played on the pve server during the course of haven.

PvE was never a solution, it was something new that decent amount of people liked (I'm talking about Sanctuary, no one liked Haven PvE). The problem now is that PvE is something that has been cemented in Herocraft. And removing it just so people can prey on the weak is just going to hurt in the long run. The PvE'ers will leave cause they don't want to PvP, the PvP'ers will grow bored of camping the same people and not having anyone else to fight and leave. And then only the Hardcore "I'm gonna stay and play till the end" and the rare noob will play (At the end of last map, how often were noobs staying past the first week?) Removing PvE/Forcing the entierty of PvE into combat is NOT the way to do this. Conquest, incentives to go to PvP, people stop stop being jerks are ways to do this.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Regressing back into a state of PvP = anything and the only thing will honestly just lead to what the Haven was (Low player count) and what last map was (Did people even play? I saw at most 50 people on, that was on a weekend at midday).

Threads like this show up from time to time and there's always a huge debate about whether or not to keep PvE.
At the end of the day if you don't like the decision that the Staff & Kainzo make for the server just leave. If you can't learn to deal with their choices and keep whining about the same thing over and over, leave. You do nothing but annoy and harass players who just want to play the game.

*Got a little ranty there. Oh well. I said my piece.

 

[Trazil]

That's simply not accurate. PvE was added in response to a mass exodus of players that was already happening.

Most of the players who where contributing value to the server were leaving due to the classless/bullying style of PvP that was becoming common place at the time.

The classless PvP'ers then became bored because of a lack of easy prey and left. Those PvP'ers that had some class, and the die hard veteran PvP indifferent types. Then began leaving as well.

For the rest of the statement refer to my snake bite post above.

that's not accurate? because many people left the server just because PVE was added, and how you can simply get everything you want in PVE with no risk at all, and with a custom map there is no risk of lava either. In Haven PVE wasnt a bad thing because the items on the servers were not on the same server.

@minimike96 many people remember past maps like DG and Bastion, simply because they were better and more people played on them. Did they have PVE? no. did builders still play? yes. Personally i can say in Haven, there was tons of lag, attributes were stupid as fuck but i still liked it tons more than aegis.

When people keep bringing up how they think PVE is bad for the server it might be something to consider

 

[LordZelkova]

that's not accurate? because many people left the server just because PVE was added, and how you can simply get everything you want in PVE with no risk at all, and with a custom map there is no risk of lava either. In Haven PVE wasnt a bad thing because the items on the servers were not on the same server.

And forcing all the people that are here now by removing PvE and making them play a way they dont want to is ok because?
People need to stop whining about this. Leave the PvE'ers alone and fight the people in PvP. Want more PvP? Go to a Kit PvP server, organize fights, ask people to have group fights, use the raiding features in townships.

@minimike96 many people remember past maps like DG and Bastion, simply because they were better and more people played on them. Did they have PVE? no. did builders still play? yes. Personally i can say in Haven, there was tons of lag, attributes were stupid as fuck but i still liked it tons more than aegis.

When people keep bringing up how they think PVE is bad for the server it might be something to consider

When they find an actual reason sure.
Right now it just seems that it's PvPer's whining about not having noobs to gank.

Why do you care if they're off in PvE? Just fight the people in PvP.

 

[j2gay]

that's not accurate? because many people left the server just because PVE was added, and how you can simply get everything you want in PVE with no risk at all, and with a custom map there is no risk of lava either. In Haven PVE wasnt a bad thing because the items on the servers were not on the same server.

@minimike96 many people remember past maps like DG and Bastion, simply because they were better and more people played on them. Did they have PVE? no. did builders still play? yes. Personally i can say in Haven, there was tons of lag, attributes were stupid as fuck but i still liked it tons more than aegis.

When people keep bringing up how they think PVE is bad for the server it might be something to consider

I had intended to layout very specifically how and why you are mistaken. Then I remembered from our past dealings how irrational you are and that no matter how well I lay it out for you, now matter how obvious the answer, you will never see it because you can't seem to acknowledge answers you don't like. The truth has never really mattered to you, only what you want/think. So instead of trying to argue with someone who will likely always remain willfully ignorant of the facts, I will simply ask you a question of sorts.

Name for me one player who: has not been banned or muted multiple times; wasn't on their way to a perm ban; who had contributed anything of value in terms of time, money, increased player experience, increased player population, or increased player retention; or who the vast majority of the player base as well as staff is not glad to see gone; that left the server as a direct result of PvE.

 

[Trazil]

I had intended to layout very specifically how and why you are mistaken. Then I remembered from our past dealings how irrational you are and that no matter how well I lay it out for you, now matter how obvious the answer, you will never see it because you can't seem to acknowledge answers you don't like. The truth has never really mattered to you, only what you want/think. So instead of trying to argue with someone who will likely always remain willfully ignorant of the facts, I will simply ask you a question of sorts.

Name for me one player who: has not been banned or muted multiple times; wasn't on their way to a perm ban; who had contributed anything of value in terms of time, money, increased player experience, increased player population, or increased player retention; or who the vast majority of the player base as well as staff is not glad to see gone; that left the server as a direct result of PvE.

following those exact terms I can say I quit for a while when PVE was brought in. 0 bans and mutes, I'm a donor, I answer questions when I see them and I think I'm pretty well liked overall.

 

[LordZelkova]

following those exact terms I can say I quit for a while when PVE was brought in. 0 bans and mutes, I'm a donor, I answer questions when I see them and I think I'm pretty well liked overall.

And yet here you are. PvE can't be that bad.

 

[Trazil]

And yet here you are. PvE can't be that bad.

And yet I'm not.... It's been a while since I've been on the server, I've just been checking forums until something changes because right now HC still isn't headed in a good direction. Maybe I'll see what changes in the next patch. PVE is indeed that bad

 

[LordZelkova]

And yet I'm not.... It's been a while since I've been on the server, I've just been checking forums until something changes because right now HC still isn't headed in a good direction. Maybe I'll see what changes in the next patch. PVE is indeed that bad

If you disprove so much of PvE why do you keep coming back?
Do you think it's gonna magically go away?

 

[j2gay]

following those exact terms I can say I quit for a while when PVE was brought in. 0 bans and mutes, I'm a donor, I answer questions when I see them and I think I'm pretty well liked overall.

Thank you for making my point. You are unable to separate from your personal experience and opinion in order to evaluate the question in a rational manner.

You forget that it is not about you, me or any one player. This is a question about whether HeroCraft is to be a small "boutique" server that caters entirely to a certain narrow segment of the MC community. A venture likely to end in failure at worst and obscurity at best. Or whether it is to be a server that has mass appeal, attracting players from all segments of the population. A structure much more likely to secure long term profitability. Something that as a business person, who's sole source of income is HC and its associated projects, @Kainzo desperately needs.

The thing about business is that you can't make everyone happy all of the time. You often can't even make some of the people happy some of the time. Most successful businesses find that place where enough of the people are happy enough with the product or service that they keep coming back.

Let's face it McDonald's didn't become the number one restaurant chain in history by offering specialty foods that certain people would really like an certain people may not like at all. They did it by offering consistently mediocre food that no one really loves but no one can really complain about either.

There is a reason every real estate agent and every apartment complex paint their offerings beige. Brighter colors might cause certain people to fall in love with a home but it will put even more off. Nobody falls in love with beige but nobody is scared off by it either. In fact it allows them to see what they would make of it and fall in love with other aspects of the home. Making it their own so to speak.

At the end of the day pretty much everything in life works on an attitude in attitude out basis. If you bring negativity in you get negativity out. I see you on the forums often complaining about this that and the other reason why PvP is not fun because of PvE. Blah blah there isn't enough PvP because everyone is hiding on PvE. As if getting rid of PvE will force people to PvP. It wont , they will just leave and your situation will be no better than it is now.

The evidence of this is in the history of this server which you could go back and find on these very forums if you cared to put the time in. The fact of the matter is we were talking about these issues and living the cycle of server death a year before you got here. The causes haven't changed only the mouthpieces. Its just a different group of eggheads yelling for us to try things we have tried before they ever got here that did not work. They hurt the server then, and they will hurt the server now.

When I am near a computer and have the time I will post a list of the several dozen players I know personally who have left the server due to the classless harassment style PvP that became prevalent in HC in late DG and grew increasingly worse on bastion causing basically my entire town to leave mid map.

 

[Trazil]

@j2gay i was following what you said by no mutes, no bans and people liked. many MANY people have mutes for things that are just pointless, even people that have contributed a lot to herocraft. Kainzo has said that herocraft is his vision and he will put in what he wants, that's not how a business is run. I played Bastion and it was by far my favorite map, there was always people on, and pvp, there always will be some trash talking but it's not something everyone does and you haven't accepted that. Alot of trash talking right now is coming from the PVE side of the map, not the PVP.

@minimike96 i come back because i hope that it will actually get better, but still nothing changes and it continues to get worse and worse

Heroes is a PVP plugin, no matter what it's original design was meant for, it is used mainly in PVP.

 

[LordZelkova]

@j2gay Kainzo has said that herocraft is his vision and he will put in what he wants, that's not how a business is run.

This is far from a normal business. Herocraft allows Kainzo to shape the world he wants to see. If he wants it in, it's going in. End of story. You wouldn't even be able to complain about this if he hadn't started this.

I played Bastion and it was by far my favorite map, there was always people on, and pvp, there always will be some trash talking but it's not something everyone does and you haven't accepted that. Alot of trash talking right now is coming from the PVE side of the map, not the PVP.

Is that why the PvP side of the map picked a huge fight against the Lenoirans? Is that why we keep seeing "Get rid of PvE" threads? Is that why the PvPers tell people they suck for no reason other than their own ego is to fucking large for this planet?

@minimike96 i come back because i hope that it will actually get better, but still nothing changes and it continues to get worse and worse.

If you think it's tanking so bad why do you refuse to change with it? Either change with it or move on. Stop dwelling on the past and hopping things are gonna return to it. They just won't.

Heroes is a PVP plugin, no matter what it's original design was meant for, it is used mainly in PVP.

So? Does that mean it can't evolve and change? Why does it HAVE to be PvP only? Why don't we remove money, mobs, mining and just make a Heroes Kit PvP server. That seems to be what the people in this thread would love. No more grinds, no more mining, just PvP. Want any other play style? Too bad! Heroes is PvP only. Nothing else!

Sounds great doesn't it? For a small piece of the community. And the rest? Goodbye players.

 

[Irishman81]

@j2gay i was following what you said by no mutes, no bans and people liked. many MANY people have mutes for things that are just pointless, even people that have contributed a lot to herocraft. Kainzo has said that herocraft is his vision and he will put in what he wants, that's not how a business is run. I played Bastion and it was by far my favorite map, there was always people on, and pvp, there always will be some trash talking but it's not something everyone does and you haven't accepted that. Alot of trash talking right now is coming from the PVE side of the map, not the PVP.

@minimike96 i come back because i hope that it will actually get better, but still nothing changes and it continues to get worse and worse

Heroes is a PVP plugin, no matter what it's original design was meant for, it is used mainly in PVP.

This is far from a normal business. Herocraft allows Kainzo to shape the world he wants to see. If he wants it in, it's going in. End of story. You wouldn't even be able to complain about this if he hadn't started this.


Is that why the PvP side of the map picked a huge fight against the Lenoirans? Is that why we keep seeing "Get rid of PvE" threads? Is that why the PvPers tell people they suck for no reason other than their own ego is to fucking large for this planet?


If you think it's tanking so bad why do you refuse to change with it? Either change with it or move on. Stop dwelling on the past and hopping things are gonna return to it. They just won't.


So? Does that mean it can't evolve and change? Why does it HAVE to be PvP only? Why don't we remove money, mobs, mining and just make a Heroes Kit PvP server. That seems to be what the people in this thread would love. No more grinds, no more mining, just PvP. Want any other play style? Too bad! Heroes is PvP only. Nothing else!

Sounds great doesn't it? For a small piece of the community. And the rest? Goodbye players.

For the love of God please everyone just stop. We know PVE is here to stay, some don't like it but that's how it is. Let's not waste everyone's time complaining and arguing over petty issues.

 

[Trazil]

This is far from a normal business. Herocraft allows Kainzo to shape the world he wants to see. If he wants it in, it's going in. End of story. You wouldn't even be able to complain about this if he hadn't started this.


Is that why the PvP side of the map picked a huge fight against the Lenoirans? Is that why we keep seeing "Get rid of PvE" threads? Is that why the PvPers tell people they suck for no reason other than their own ego is to fucking large for this planet?


If you think it's tanking so bad why do you refuse to change with it? Either change with it or move on. Stop dwelling on the past and hopping things are gonna return to it. They just won't.


So? Does that mean it can't evolve and change? Why does it HAVE to be PvP only? Why don't we remove money, mobs, mining and just make a Heroes Kit PvP server. That seems to be what the people in this thread would love. No more grinds, no more mining, just PvP. Want any other play style? Too bad! Heroes is PvP only. Nothing else!

Sounds great doesn't it? For a small piece of the community. And the rest? Goodbye players.

1. exactly what I said, Kainzo does what he wants.
2. That was a joke, can you really not see that?
3. when you put alot of time into something you tend to want to stick with it and hope it changes, why do you think people come back for new maps?
4. i didn't say it was JUST for PVP is said it was MAINLY pvp. There has always been a grind and i really don't care about that, and I never mine anyway so idc about that either, because those generate income for the server from boosts. Sure the grind pushes more people away than PVP by far, I've tried getting multiple friends into herocraft but they won't grind that much. no need to become a sarcastic little kid over something so small.

 

[LordZelkova]

1. exactly what I said, Kainzo does what he wants.
2. That was a joke, can you really not see that?
3. when you put alot of time into something you tend to want to stick with it and hope it changes, why do you think people come back for new maps?
4. i didn't say it was JUST for PVP is said it was MAINLY pvp. There has always been a grind and i really don't care about that, and I never mine anyway so idc about that either, because those generate income for the server from boosts. Sure the grind pushes more people away than PVP by far, I've tried getting multiple friends into herocraft but they won't grind that much. no need to become a sarcastic little kid over something so small.

1: Stop complaining then? He does what he wants.
2: A joke everyone was so ready to make real. A joke everyone keeps using. Beating the dead horse doesn't make it funny. But what about the rest? "Remove PvE" keeps poping up, "U suk m9 i so gud" happens almost every time I fight someone. Are those jokes too? Being an annoying dumbass is not funny. It's exactly that: Annoying and asinine.
3: And when it fails you either change with it or move on
4: Mainly. It has other uses. Which is why I don't understand the argument against PvE.

For the love of God please everyone just stop. We know PVE is here to stay, some don't like it but that's how it is. Let's not waste everyone's time complaining and arguing over petty issues.

People keep bringing this back up. Tempers flare, people get aggravated with the constant bickering between people who want PvE and those who want it removed.


This thread has turned into nothing but a flame war. Don't expect anything else from me here. I don't feel like arguing with people who refuse to change.

 

[j2gay]

@j2gay i was following what you said by no mutes, no bans and people liked. many MANY people have mutes for things that are just pointless, even people that have contributed a lot to herocraft. Kainzo has said that herocraft is his vision and he will put in what he wants, that's not how a business is run. I played Bastion and it was by far my favorite map, there was always people on, and pvp, there always will be some trash talking but it's not something everyone does and you haven't accepted that. Alot of trash talking right now is coming from the PVE side of the map, not the PVP.

Actually I have accepted and acknowledged that not everyone is trash talking. Numerous times in fact. Another case of you hearing only what you want and discounting the remaining facts.
Kainzo does what he wants for the most part but this is still a business. Things that don't work are removed and things that work stay.

For the love of God please everyone just stop. We know PVE is here to stay, some don't like it but that's how it is. Let's not waste everyone's time complaining and arguing over petty issues.

I too am tired of the pettyness that takes place on these forums. This issue however is not petty. Some of the comments made in this thread have been, but they have not been put up by me I assure you.
pet·ty
ˈpedē/
adjective

1. 1.
   of little importance; trivial.
   "the petty divisions of party politics"
   synonyms:trivial, trifling, minor, small, unimportant, insignificant, inconsequential, inconsiderable,negligible, paltry, footling, pettifogging;More
2. 2.
   of secondary or lesser importance, rank, or scale; minor.
   "a petty official"

 

[Trazil]

nothing is petty when it's your community talking, everything is important and should be listened to.
Just look at the ratings on the first post, most people agree war should be turned on in all of PVE

 

[j2gay]

nothing is petty when it's your community talking, everything is important and should be listened to.
Just look at the ratings on the first post, most people agree war should be turned on in all of PVE

14 people = most? Interesting mathematical theorem you have there.