Suggestion Make Herocraft Great Again

[LordZelkova]

I would personally like to see custom weapons be buyable with coins/souls, but not a stupid amount of them. If a weapon costs more than 250 I really don't see people wanting to risk them other than for special occasions. Then there is the problem of having too many custom weapons in circulation, they need to be leaving the game somehow.

I'm heavily considering removing Unbreaking from the pools minus a few levels on Gold/Leather (2-3). Short of that the only other way I have to limit them is to not give them out. They're the usual rewards for events since we don't have much else we can easily get out to players.
Selling them is up to @Kainzo but I'd be willing to make the items for that.

 

[Dielan9999]

Also @Kainzo I don't mean to defend rude people and flawed logic but the first post mentions an idea that the names above peoples health bars should be colored differently if you are in the same town, and a different color from that if in a party. As far as I can tell this isn't in the township plugin but would be a cool addition. I'd like to add on that towns marked as enemies or allies of your own town should have colored names too - which would give more reason to use that feature imo

 

[Dielan9999]

Sorry for the double post but I want to throw it out there having just finished reading the last two pages that the plugins for townships, systems for pve, and such are a LOT better than when I quit on Haven. I'm not sure how much better y'all feel it got before it got worse but from what I can tell everything system wise is improved with the exception of Kingdoms. The problems on the server causing poor new player retention are caused by the player base and the systems are failing to curb the community from being shitty. So either new systems need to go into place (bring back no PvP for low level players, penalize ganking new players, or something of the sort) or the community needs heavier moderation.

Since the community tanked in size we can't expect it to stand up to the few toxic players out there trying to make new players quit. I think the first step that should be taken is the reimplementation of PvP arenas and battlegrounds we had on Bastion. That might satisfy a lot of pvpers so they don't feel the need to kill noobs all day.

 

[victim130]

Off the bat this will be a long post, I'm going to try covering everything. Its going to be a mix of ranting and suggestions


Attributes
The current implementation of attributes is really not that good. As a Tier 1 class all your attributes are set from level 1. This means anything other than your health and mana have practically no level scaling. It also means that attributes play no role in tier 1 classes. Tier 2 classes can customize their own attributes but tier 2 has a bunch of other problems too..

Attribute customization is not 'noob' friendly. The GUI doesn't work, no noob knows what build to go, so on so forth. But without being able to customize your attributes they don't play enough of a role.

Solution A: Redesign attributes so that you can toggle between manual and automatic. Automatic would build up a set of attributes as you level while manual you will be able to choose what attributes you get.
Solution B: Rip it out. It either adds unnecessary complications or does not play any role.

Tier 2 Classes
I am really not a fan of T2 classes and their implementation. No one touches them without a boost which makes it feel like they exist purely to put more money towards Kainzo/the server.

The problems are pretty simple. You finish mastering your T1 class and then you switch to T2 and lose everything. You lose your skills and attributes and it takes even longer to gain them back for a really small bonus. "Well Egor the whole point of going T2 is to show that you are hardcore!" Good for you not being able to actively participate in all aspects of the game because you are lacking skills and attributes for making that hardcore decision.

Another small issue is the quality of some T2 skills. Some T2 classes' skill is beneficial and a great bonus (you can really notice the difference between the T1 and T2) while others are lackluster.

Solution A: Rip them out. It is another one of those things that adds another layer to the never ending stack of things to do.
Solution B: Make them take even longer to level but give everything they had at T1 level 60 to T2 level 1. Give it enough attribute points to make a build that could match the T1 (but they would be able to customize it at level 1) and give them their skills. Keep the leveling simple, 1-10 (level 10 having the bonus skill), but make it take a shit load of time to get maxed. Each level would give a good chunk of attribute points to make an impact. *I've already made a suggestion exactly like Solution B

Tier 3 Classes
What the fuck?

Back in Aegis Kainzo had made a thread displaying Soul Wielder, a class above all others but takes even more PvE to get to! This thread blew up because people hated the idea and heavily disagreed. So many people were pissed that this was even an idea posted by Kainzo. The thread ended up being taken down and left alone. Months later when the majority forgot about the initial T3 thread (Soul Wielder) Kainzo releases...TIER 3 CLASSES.

They really provide nothing but more work. Barely anyone goes them even if they are stupidly strong. The problem is that all it takes is one good PvPer to go one of these classes and wreck shit for it to be a problem. Then the balance team has work on balancing it based on that it needs to be stronger than other classes, but not too strong.

Solution: Rip them out

Parties
Make the god damn names green. I don't know why this is not a thing anymore, it made group fights a lot more enjoyable because you wouldn't waste anytime going after the wrong person (you would notice it right away).

Townships
All we need for townships is something simple, and straight forward. I would spend time trying to knit pick at our current system but I simply don't know much about it. All I know is that you can claim chunks and your town will slowly produce special materials over time. But the problem is that, that is all I know about the current townships. There are too many aspects that can easily drive someone away from starting up their own town.

Solution: Create a new simple township plugin. It starts you off with a base area, when you upgrade it expands said area. To upgrade it would cost a lot of money, diamonds, gold, iron, just regular minecraft materials on mass. To upgrade it should take a long time, it should not be easy (helps to provide end game things to do). For inter town politics keep it very simple. Set allies names to yellow, enemies to red, and have your own townies be blue.

Conquest Points
In my opinion this is one of the changes that was good for the server but it is still has problems.

The buildings. For the love of god you can steal something from anywhere else and get better buildings. These buildings keep getting reused. First it was created as the sewer mob arena in Dragongarde and now it has be reused as conquest points multiple times. Get some good unique buildings

The bonus experience is a good idea and I would like to see that kept.

I would also like to see it continue being integrated into the town system but maybe in a more simple way. You need X amount of item to upgrade, the conquest points gives said item.

1.9 Attack Speed
There are already multiple threads and posts debating this subject so I'll try to keep it short.

To make attack speed work well with our current system requires a lot of work. It requires both coding (reworking melee classes so it works well), and heavy balancing. Is it really worth all that work? The answer is no. Why stick with a system (in its current implementation) and have all this work piled up instead of setting the attacks per second to 10 and have it over with

Economy
Our custom currency, souls, is not needed. There were no major issues with the gold system. As long as you make mobs, and farming drop golden nuggets, it all works out quite well.

Make a huge money dump upgrading towns, this ain't Easycraft. Make server shops a big thing for both selling and buying. The server should be selling practically everything to keep money/items flowing. The server should also be buying everything for a certain price.

Having the server buying things from the players is good because it will allow people to actually PvE by setting up massive farms (like a cactus farm) so they can sell to the server. Allowing them to collect an item, sell it, and use that money (for upgrading their town perhaps).

I'd personally like to see the removal of both chestshops, and whatever market thing is mainly used. Having pure player trading promotes interaction, caution, and more.

Custom Items
I would personally like to see the removal of custom items. Although they are not one of the massive problems of Herocraft they are still something that adds to the unnecessary list.

They are not really providing anything 'good'. They provide people with an advantage that has nothing to do with skill and is something that Balance Team can't really account for.

Staff Teams
Admin/Mod
I do not really see a good solution to getting more admins/mods but there is a dire need for people with the power to do things. You can't choose someone from the existing veterans because most are biased and you can't really take any new players because they don't really know the system/community.

Proctor/Rules Team
There really needs to be new updated rules and the proper amount of people. I see people getting muted for no good reason or people not getting muted (there needs to be a fine line). I do believe shit talking should not be muteable.

I would also like to see the stealing and leaving/betraying your town results in a ban is brought back. Not many developed groups are willing to invite new people because they risk everything being stolen. Makes it hard for any new player to get into a well known town.

Balance Team
The one team I feel like does their best to do their job. It is just that some major changes make balancing extremely difficult. At the moment said change is attack speed and maybe a little from a different healing system

Dungeons/Adventure Map/Dungeon Heroes/Mythic Mobs
This honestly bugs me so much because there is no seperation from the Herocraft survival server and what has been the goal of Kainzo for years. Survival server has just become the live test for things Kainzo wants for Dungeon Heroes and it hasn't been working.

Dungeons, these massive buildings around the map filled with mythic mobs that give subpar experience and rewards. What is this giving the server? We reuse and recycle conquest points for maps but each dungeon has its own unique building. Why is something that has proven to 'make a difference' not getting focus compared to dungeons which only get used because they are there.

Mythic mobs, annoying mobs that take longer to kill. That is really all they are at the moment. I remember when they were first being implemented and how it came with crashes, bugs and way too much config work to make it worth it. They are finally in but they just don't make a difference.

Leveling/Experience Rates
What happened this map that fucked up the experience rates in parties?

It used to be that experience would be evenly split in the party but now it factors in people's level and tier. I presume this system is suppose to be rewarding those who are doing more work to kill the mobs because higher level obviously equates to more work/damage put in. This system is so flawed because a low level with one AOE can do more than a high level with none. Even if you base it on damage dealt to mobs, what about healers?

Solution: Just put it back to the old, even split experience.

Protection
Towns are fully regioned and are unbreakable (I don't even know if we have a current town raiding system). Do you really need anymore protection?

Deathchests are a massive helping hand to anyone but I just don't think they provide healthy gameplay. You die so lets give you a chance to get your items back (no matter where you are). You got your deathchest back but you died again, lets just drop another deathchest. There really is no punishment of losing your items when you die because of deathchests. No one is scared to die because they know that they will probably get all their stuff back.

LWCs are the ultimate protection. But is that really needed when towns are fully regioned? I personally am no longer a fan of LWCs. I'd like to see the only protection that no one can access be an enderchest (only giving you 27 protected slots).

Scrap residences and just have expensive spawn plots.

Macros
As much as requiring macros to truly enjoy the majority of PvP sucks it is currently still needed and is not something that is easy to fix.

Take a look at melee classes, it is extremely inconvenient to switch to another hotbar slot, while swinging, to right click an item bind. It just doesn't work well.

Healers need to bind all of their skills and some of them twice. Even with the new targeting system you need to have certain binds with the '-to' things to do your job properly

Casters/Pure kiting classes are the ones who can be played without macros because the only thing you are limited to is your skill count and what you bind (which is not the hard thing to fix).

We shouldn't be trying to bring some classes down (limit what they can do so those without macros can be somewhat on par) while others won't be touched (melee classes) because the problem is how heroes handles skill usage.

Arenas/Elo
Arenas were great because it helped create PvP when there was none to be found in the world. It helped people improve quickly. Instead of having to run from a graveyard, regear, heal up, wait on mana, so on so forth, you would be able to fight again and again. This allowed you to improve much more than world PvP would ever allow. I know that there has been an 'Arena Server' where you had to go to a different server to use them but it was just inconvenient. Being able to /duel someone on the live server was great. Without that you had to be like, "Do you wanna fight?! Come to the arena server! huehuehue."

Arenas and dueling allows for an elo system that makes it somewhat hard to 'camp' people for elo. The ratings would only be from duels and arenas, not real world PvP.

Class Reconstruction
KAINZO KEEP YOUR SLIMY HANDS OFF OF IT. You really should be letting the balance team/community do this. You have admitted that you are no good at class balancing. Class balancing and creation go hand in hand. KEEP THEM HANDS OFF KAINBRO
Kain edit - I never said I was bad at balancing, I said its not a one man job.


Kain Edit - class name changes aren't in stone, these were just funny/fun for me to rename, but were not perm choices.
Kainzo
Although Kainzo has been able to keep Herocraft up and running for over 5 years he has really only been able to do that well on the back end side of things. 'Server issues' have gotten much better over time but the content has not.

I feel like for every one good development decision made comes with three bad/meh ones.
Conquest points...PvE half of map, broken town plugin, 2nd broken town plugin.

The decisions that have really benefited the server are quite the small amount. You can probably argue that a lot of my opinions come from just a PvP standpoint but I don't really think so. A lot of what I have talked about will make it better for newer players. By removing things it makes it simpler for someone who has never played Herocraft before. By making towns simpler and the only protection it will make people race for upgrades (PvE). I can go at this from a lot of different angles but you get my point.

2500 unique weekly logins with a 60% retention rate. Retention meaning they log in the next day...This statistic got thrown at us while arguing with Kainzo to help him win the argument. Where are those 1000+ players that are supposed to be retained? The PvPers take this blame because we kill and camp every single one of them. This issue could have been reduced by doing something as simple as adding a cost to Herogates (so noobs can't run through them right off the bat).

The main reason noobs end up leaving is because there is too much shit too learn. Sure not everyone wants to install macro mod but installing macro mod is leagues easier than learning all about Herocraft.

Overall as a server owner I think Kainzo has done a good job running the server on the backend but a horrible job in development. I feel like to get Herocraft going again there needs to be a different person in charge of development. There needs to be a difference between Dungeon Heroes and survival.

The End

When is Dungeon Heroes/Adventure map coming? It has been in development since Dragongarde and coming soon since Zeal.

This took a lot of effort to type up and sadly it is probably not going to make a difference

@Kainzo @TimForReal @WitchOnaRampage @xexorian @Dielan9999 @Haxnn @victim130 @peeeeeeeeeew @Leo2596 @Avoir @911FashionPolice @Pugglez_ @Dreamcycler @Irishman81 @Anhwylder @Dwarfers @Zelphril @Moderators @Kenneth_Chow @Balance Team @everyoneelsetoo

Finally got around to reading this and some of the other replies. First off, Kain gets a ton of hate. I mean a TON, more than he even knows. There is a internet e-bonics dedicated to mocking him even. At the end of the day, he brought the server of Herocraft to life. We owe him a fair bit for that and many of us have paid hundreds of dollars to him for it. Kain made something that brings us happiness. That being said and I'm sorry if this seems rude @Kainzo, but the server is more than just yours now. From staff to community, old and new, we come back to the server to see the evolution of Heroes and to expand upon it.

That being said, there are also those in the community who would rather watch the server burn.

To address the post: The Kainzo bashing is well overdone, I love being vulgar as much as the next, but if we are to stay on topic, have some maturity. However, you bring up several good and several lame points.

Classes:
The only points you made were mostly "This is overpowered and this is complicated". While, yes, T3 is retardedly powerful. I can't deny that having two massively outscaling classes is a bad idea, but simply saying "Remove it" is not the answer. We actually asked Kain a long time ago to add similar classes and I personally asked for T2-esque classes. I can't blame him for wanting to move forwards with the plugin and to expand upon the gameplay. Instead, I think a set of multiple T3 classes would make more sense. 4+ would allow us to select from more roles and split roles from the two current ones.

My personal issue over the T3 classes is more to do with the fact that I don't like them. I'm more interested in the already put-together classes that have had tons of balancing. But because of that choice, I'm made to fight players with a class that is at the least .5 times stronger. I'd like to see them reworked and have more added and give them more situational room, rather than all this counter play. That should allow the better players to have more room to be good and the average will be on par with the rest of the classes.

As for the T2 idea of 1-10 and attributes are mostly given at level 1: I like this idea. A clear difference with a fair playing field is what we need and currently T2 1-45ish is just under-powered.

The last point I want to touch in this set is attributes. I think that the more level of freedom we have the better. Look at other MMOs, plenty of them come with gear that alters your character or 30+ skills to learn. A simple attribute system isn't that hard. Though I will say that it needs much work to be fixed up. Bugs and glitches make it very hard to work with and the only fix to messed up attributes is 100c. Also, I'd like to see classes use more than 1-2 attributes primarily.

My suggestion for attributes outside of bug fixing: Make it so that we can apply much more attributes. Maybe tone down the potency of the stats and then make it so that more skills scale by multiple means OR more skills have separate scaling. IE: Fire Rune scales by INT, but Duskblade scales off of INT and WIS. Make it so that you need to think before you slam your points. Though with this, I think we need to see a return of in-game skill explanations and along with that add in clear scaling numbers. We can have complicated systems, but they need to be explained!

Parties: I like this idea. I can't tell you how many times I've swung at a party member.

Townships: I can't blame these for being lame now, but I can't say I would hate your idea. Name colors allow us to make the call on fight or flight without killing an ally. Might be a bit out of reach though.

Conquest: I love this addition, but to add to what you said, more diversity in the castles would be nice. Maybe have a building contest? Plenty of the server's better architects are floating around again As for it being needed for town upgrading, idk if I like this. We don't need to be encouraging players to capture castles for map supremacy. Maybe it could allow for faster upgrades, but if it were for all, newer players and towns would suffer and it would also discourage PvE or Builder towns from emerging.

1.9: I agree that it requires tons of balancing. Like a massive amount, but its a cool change. Most MMOs have more thought provoking combat and this should add to that factor on HC. Though right now, it kinda sucks. Classes with on-hit skills can spam click and with the existing custom weapons, some of those allow for spamming too. Which makes it feel like its both 1.8 and 1.9. I'd say that on-hit type attacks need to be regulated. I have no idea if its possible, but add a way for skills to only go off on a successful attack. This would make most classes have to stop and think about their attacks.

Also, my thoughts on this system: We need more CC. With combat being slowed and not the movement of players, catching up to people is a real pain. Giving melee classes the opportunity to catch their targets is a must. Dragoon is a perfect example of a class that fits this new system imo. It can stick to a target and it can lock down targets. We need more melee classes to have forms of this.

Economy: Is fine, but I'd like to see changes to warp as in removing it. Then allowing merchants to make soul shops. This way towns can have their own inner economies similar to the way it worked when we had gold. This would also allow for wizards to have more of a use outside of combat.

Custom Items are fine, just need to be recalled a bit harder. Having 1.8 items in the game is not a good idea. And relying on catching people with them seems to not be working. Though I am glad that there is a response and action towards the PEs I make! I just wish it happened without the PEs too

Something I'd like to see though, is items start giving attribute bonuses. I find the system we have now to be a bit boring. Its functional in theory, but could be so much cooler.

Staff: Staff has been a wild ride from Sanctum to now. I'd love to help in anyway I can, but idek what to reach for. Though for sure, we need more staff. Right now I know the team is swamped with things to do and we'll never see the return of the rules we need without a team big enough to handle it. Maybe I'll apply at somepoint, I just hate applying for things

Dungeons: I already told Kain what I'd like to see, but to shorthand it here: Give the bosses more. Make them have some mechanics that require a group to fight. But hey, I'm just glad we have them now. For so long, PvE was a dark box or swamp or a mob grinder. At least now there is a push for change. We just need to push a little further now.

EXP: idk what you are talking about. From as long as Parties have existed, EXP has not been an even split. It has always been a slight increase. (Example being mob gives 100 exp, two players in a party will get 60 exp for killing it).

Protection: No. This is the wrong mentality to have. We have regions and we have LWCs for safety. We also kinda paid for them. That being said, I understand what you mean. The problem being that you can't cater to one crowd. There are builders and PvEers too. Now they shouldn't be allowed perfect safety, but tbh, this has been like this since Zeal. You need to be clever to break into a town. Trick players and use mobility skills.

As for Deathchests: these need to stop dropping in safezones and we need to stop this safezone camping. Kainzo and his staff have always made changes to how the safezones worked in response to how the fights were skewed. From Zeal North Road getting a one way entrance to DG Herogates getting them too. Why now of all times is it allowed? I'd like to see the Haven system come back, where you keep your weapon and armor and then have it so safezones restrict death chest dropping. This way players have a hard time losing their items (Which was the reason given as to why death chests are so accessible) and we see less safezone camping. Your items become safer in the open. Even if you need to dig them out.

Macros: I've talked about my feelings on heal targeting: Shorthand, skills of any kind shouldn't have 5 different versions. Name binding was OP. I think both systems are kinda lame. As for a fix, I'm not sure.

On the topic of all classes, item binds and hotbar binds are only a way to offer players functionality if they are unable to or have not yet picked up macro mod. With the hero modpack being a thing, there is no real excuse for not using it.

Arenas/ELO: No. We don't need to take pvp away from the world. As for ELO, I don't like this either. Players start to think it makes a difference or equals skill and just brings about another level of toxicity. I do like a flat kill/death ratio though. Maybe a monthly reset one? Something to show my recent stats.

Class Recon: @Kainzo If your alleged slimy hands do decide on this, just keep something in mind! Each class needs a clear goal and role. If you can stick to that format, your plan (Or of what I have heard) could actually be a good idea. For instance: A ranger should be able to survive in both melee and ranged combat. Giving them Maim, poison arrow and a heal would allow them to widdle down targets. Necromancer should be about making its opponents fear being near it. Give them an AoE dot that acts as a main damaging skill, an aura that periodically blinds enemies (Maybe it takes mana to maintain?) then give them life drain.

I could go on for days about what could be done with a smaller skill pool per class, but just know that it can be done right.

Kainzo: You can say he's the issue, but even if he is, its also our faults. We bitch, we complain, we mock each other. Retention isn't low because the game is hard or only because players camp noobs, but also because everyone in chat has no control. From Elite to tour, the more active players this map have done nothing but troll. I feel we need to drop the hammer quicker and bring back rules to prevent this from happening.

I'm writing this when I should be sleeping. If anything seems off-topic, that is probably why. In conclusion, Herocraft is fun and with a staff made up of volunteers, I expect things to be far from perfect. I just personally wish that the rules were more strict like they used to be so that the server could have fun rather than have to deal with a toxic environment.

See you all at the meeting.

 

[Dielan9999]

Classes:
The only points you made were mostly "This is overpowered and this is complicated". While, yes, T3 is retardedly powerful. I can't deny that having two massively outscaling classes is a bad idea, but simply saying "Remove it" is not the answer. We actually asked Kain a long time ago to add similar classes and I personally asked for T2-esque classes. I can't blame him for wanting to move forwards with the plugin and to expand upon the gameplay. Instead, I think a set of multiple T3 classes would make more sense. 4+ would allow us to select from more roles and split roles from the two current ones.

My personal issue over the T3 classes is more to do with the fact that I don't like them. I'm more interested in the already put-together classes that have had tons of balancing. But because of that choice, I'm made to fight players with a class that is at the least .5 times stronger. I'd like to see them reworked and have more added and give them more situational room, rather than all this counter play. That should allow the better players to have more room to be good and the average will be on par with the rest of the classes.

As for the T2 idea of 1-10 and attributes are mostly given at level 1: I like this idea. A clear difference with a fair playing field is what we need and currently T2 1-45ish is just under-powered.

I have an idea about how to change T3 classes to still be worth obtaining but not also being bullshit. I think they should mirror the "t1" from back in the day. For example we could have one T3 class called "Master Warrior" and to spec into it you need to master Dragoon, Paladin, DK, Zerker, and Samurai first & T2 of each of them. This class would be slightly stronger than any individual T2 class it came from but contain several skills from each! Like wimdwalk, jump, and harmtouch all on one pallet of skills. Same theme for a Master Healer, Master Rogue, and so on of you see what I mean by all this.

Heroes is cool because of the skills. Who wouldn't want a huge array of them? Could you imagine how effective a Master Rogue would be? It doesn't have to dominate PvP to be worth grimdimg for, skills are the appealing feature of Heroes overall, and Warrior/Rogue/Healer/Caster is at this point a reference/homage to where HC began with Heroes.

I don't like the idea of there only being 2 T3 classes that are simply gods among mortals with no utility skills. It doesn't even sound fun to play. I'd rather stay Druid, be a Dragoon or Ninja for mobility/utility. Also with my idea it's obvious how to obtain the class where now its confusing to everyone.

 

[Dewyn]

The same goes for above. The mythics are insanely useful to me for handling Events, as I can make special mobs with names and set HP and resistances and the like, I'd be willing to go over them and try and work on making them actually enjoyable to grind out. The skills are cool, and the resistances could help make the elemental damage Heroes can do actually mean something.

In general, I agree 100% that the current ones aren't worth the grind. They simply aren't. They can have upwards of 5k hp for regular mobs, have undodgeable skills, and almost never reward you (The EXP rates are crap on them, and the drops for items is so low).

I'd like to see mobs with Heroes integration, skills would be more interesting and interrupts/silences/etc would actually be viable in PvE as well.

So far I've seen nothing but what you have stated - mobs with far too much health, far too little reward, and ridiculous skills (oh boy pigman used throw and jump! oh man pigman with a hat used forcepull and teleport! oh joy I'm dead because ranged mobs deal 400 damage a hit!).

I've been doing some thinking, and I'm okay with dungeon based leveling as long as it is interesting. Currently you get maybe 2 or 3 silly little mythicmobs that aren't a threat if they don't have a bow. What I'd prefer to see are swarms of mobs that are closer to vanilla with special enemies throughout that give more exp and drops.

The dungeon in the desert is a prime example of this, it would be lots of fun with a party if the mobs didn't have ridiculous amounts of health, give exceedingly poor exp (and if a t2 is in your party you might as well just leave), and have the unfortunate combo of "melee mob uses pull skills, ranged mob deals 400 damage every second". Make the mobs everywhere into larger swarms of vanilla type mobs. Swarms are always more fun because even getting 10 exp 40 times feels more rewarding than getting 400 exp one time after 10 minutes of left clicking. Seeing the little bar tick up progressively is better than "well, my exp jumped up a fair bit, guess I'll level up one day". Would probably take less time too as each individual mob would take less time to kill and hopefully have improved exp rates.

I'm of two minds. Part of me wants to move forward and remedy the problems we have in a progressive way, part of me wants to just yell "pls revert map" and huddle in a corner while making no attempt at reasonable communication.

@Kainzo - I have not been on IRC at all lately, if there is anything I can do message me on here because I will definitely see it (whereas IRC messages tend to be...transient). I already have the mechanics for the last thing we discussed, just need to implement Heroes integration.

 

[Egorh]

I'm liking all the feedback. My main post wasn't mean't to be a, "YEA, CHANGE EVERYTHING". Some things in my post I don't really care too much about and others I feel strongly about (attributes, t2, t3, attackspeed). I'm glad it is getting some conversations going.

 

[Egorh]

I'm heavily considering removing Unbreaking from the pools minus a few levels on Gold/Leather (2-3). Short of that the only other way I have to limit them is to not give them out. They're the usual rewards for events since we don't have much else we can easily get out to players.
Selling them is up to @Kainzo but I'd be willing to make the items for that.

I feel like we should hold on the custom armor for now. Because we already limit the enchants for balance purposes. It ends up making the armor quite subpar and not super OP. Any of the armor that we do sell should probably be the best stuff we allow to be enchanted (like boots, feathfalling 4, depth strider 3, unbreaking). Like it was mentioned above I would like to see attribute bonuses be possible on armor. It will really help integrate the custom items into Heroes.

 

[joshtsai]

Finally got around to reading this and some of the other replies. First off, Kain gets a ton of hate. I mean a TON, more than he even knows. There is a internet e-bonics dedicated to mocking him even. At the end of the day, he brought the server of Herocraft to life. We owe him a fair bit for that and many of us have paid hundreds of dollars to him for it. Kain made something that brings us happiness. That being said and I'm sorry if this seems rude @Kainzo, but the server is more than just yours now. From staff to community, old and new, we come back to the server to see the evolution of Heroes and to expand upon it.

That being said, there are also those in the community who would rather watch the server burn.

To address the post: The Kainzo bashing is well overdone, I love being vulgar as much as the next, but if we are to stay on topic, have some maturity. However, you bring up several good and several lame points.

Classes:
The only points you made were mostly "This is overpowered and this is complicated". While, yes, T3 is retardedly powerful. I can't deny that having two massively outscaling classes is a bad idea, but simply saying "Remove it" is not the answer. We actually asked Kain a long time ago to add similar classes and I personally asked for T2-esque classes. I can't blame him for wanting to move forwards with the plugin and to expand upon the gameplay. Instead, I think a set of multiple T3 classes would make more sense. 4+ would allow us to select from more roles and split roles from the two current ones.

My personal issue over the T3 classes is more to do with the fact that I don't like them. I'm more interested in the already put-together classes that have had tons of balancing. But because of that choice, I'm made to fight players with a class that is at the least .5 times stronger. I'd like to see them reworked and have more added and give them more situational room, rather than all this counter play. That should allow the better players to have more room to be good and the average will be on par with the rest of the classes.

As for the T2 idea of 1-10 and attributes are mostly given at level 1: I like this idea. A clear difference with a fair playing field is what we need and currently T2 1-45ish is just under-powered.

The last point I want to touch in this set is attributes. I think that the more level of freedom we have the better. Look at other MMOs, plenty of them come with gear that alters your character or 30+ skills to learn. A simple attribute system isn't that hard. Though I will say that it needs much work to be fixed up. Bugs and glitches make it very hard to work with and the only fix to messed up attributes is 100c. Also, I'd like to see classes use more than 1-2 attributes primarily.

My suggestion for attributes outside of bug fixing: Make it so that we can apply much more attributes. Maybe tone down the potency of the stats and then make it so that more skills scale by multiple means OR more skills have separate scaling. IE: Fire Rune scales by INT, but Duskblade scales off of INT and WIS. Make it so that you need to think before you slam your points. Though with this, I think we need to see a return of in-game skill explanations and along with that add in clear scaling numbers. We can have complicated systems, but they need to be explained!

Parties: I like this idea. I can't tell you how many times I've swung at a party member.

Townships: I can't blame these for being lame now, but I can't say I would hate your idea. Name colors allow us to make the call on fight or flight without killing an ally. Might be a bit out of reach though.

Conquest: I love this addition, but to add to what you said, more diversity in the castles would be nice. Maybe have a building contest? Plenty of the server's better architects are floating around again As for it being needed for town upgrading, idk if I like this. We don't need to be encouraging players to capture castles for map supremacy. Maybe it could allow for faster upgrades, but if it were for all, newer players and towns would suffer and it would also discourage PvE or Builder towns from emerging.

1.9: I agree that it requires tons of balancing. Like a massive amount, but its a cool change. Most MMOs have more thought provoking combat and this should add to that factor on HC. Though right now, it kinda sucks. Classes with on-hit skills can spam click and with the existing custom weapons, some of those allow for spamming too. Which makes it feel like its both 1.8 and 1.9. I'd say that on-hit type attacks need to be regulated. I have no idea if its possible, but add a way for skills to only go off on a successful attack. This would make most classes have to stop and think about their attacks.

Also, my thoughts on this system: We need more CC. With combat being slowed and not the movement of players, catching up to people is a real pain. Giving melee classes the opportunity to catch their targets is a must. Dragoon is a perfect example of a class that fits this new system imo. It can stick to a target and it can lock down targets. We need more melee classes to have forms of this.

Economy: Is fine, but I'd like to see changes to warp as in removing it. Then allowing merchants to make soul shops. This way towns can have their own inner economies similar to the way it worked when we had gold. This would also allow for wizards to have more of a use outside of combat.

Custom Items are fine, just need to be recalled a bit harder. Having 1.8 items in the game is not a good idea. And relying on catching people with them seems to not be working. Though I am glad that there is a response and action towards the PEs I make! I just wish it happened without the PEs too

Something I'd like to see though, is items start giving attribute bonuses. I find the system we have now to be a bit boring. Its functional in theory, but could be so much cooler.

Staff: Staff has been a wild ride from Sanctum to now. I'd love to help in anyway I can, but idek what to reach for. Though for sure, we need more staff. Right now I know the team is swamped with things to do and we'll never see the return of the rules we need without a team big enough to handle it. Maybe I'll apply at somepoint, I just hate applying for things

Dungeons: I already told Kain what I'd like to see, but to shorthand it here: Give the bosses more. Make them have some mechanics that require a group to fight. But hey, I'm just glad we have them now. For so long, PvE was a dark box or swamp or a mob grinder. At least now there is a push for change. We just need to push a little further now.

EXP: idk what you are talking about. From as long as Parties have existed, EXP has not been an even split. It has always been a slight increase. (Example being mob gives 100 exp, two players in a party will get 60 exp for killing it).

Protection: No. This is the wrong mentality to have. We have regions and we have LWCs for safety. We also kinda paid for them. That being said, I understand what you mean. The problem being that you can't cater to one crowd. There are builders and PvEers too. Now they shouldn't be allowed perfect safety, but tbh, this has been like this since Zeal. You need to be clever to break into a town. Trick players and use mobility skills.

As for Deathchests: these need to stop dropping in safezones and we need to stop this safezone camping. Kainzo and his staff have always made changes to how the safezones worked in response to how the fights were skewed. From Zeal North Road getting a one way entrance to DG Herogates getting them too. Why now of all times is it allowed? I'd like to see the Haven system come back, where you keep your weapon and armor and then have it so safezones restrict death chest dropping. This way players have a hard time losing their items (Which was the reason given as to why death chests are so accessible) and we see less safezone camping. Your items become safer in the open. Even if you need to dig them out.

Macros: I've talked about my feelings on heal targeting: Shorthand, skills of any kind shouldn't have 5 different versions. Name binding was OP. I think both systems are kinda lame. As for a fix, I'm not sure.

On the topic of all classes, item binds and hotbar binds are only a way to offer players functionality if they are unable to or have not yet picked up macro mod. With the hero modpack being a thing, there is no real excuse for not using it.

Arenas/ELO: No. We don't need to take pvp away from the world. As for ELO, I don't like this either. Players start to think it makes a difference or equals skill and just brings about another level of toxicity. I do like a flat kill/death ratio though. Maybe a monthly reset one? Something to show my recent stats.

Class Recon: @Kainzo If your alleged slimy hands do decide on this, just keep something in mind! Each class needs a clear goal and role. If you can stick to that format, your plan (Or of what I have heard) could actually be a good idea. For instance: A ranger should be able to survive in both melee and ranged combat. Giving them Maim, poison arrow and a heal would allow them to widdle down targets. Necromancer should be about making its opponents fear being near it. Give them an AoE dot that acts as a main damaging skill, an aura that periodically blinds enemies (Maybe it takes mana to maintain?) then give them life drain.

I could go on for days about what could be done with a smaller skill pool per class, but just know that it can be done right.

Kainzo: You can say he's the issue, but even if he is, its also our faults. We bitch, we complain, we mock each other. Retention isn't low because the game is hard or only because players camp noobs, but also because everyone in chat has no control. From Elite to tour, the more active players this map have done nothing but troll. I feel we need to drop the hammer quicker and bring back rules to prevent this from happening.

I'm writing this when I should be sleeping. If anything seems off-topic, that is probably why. In conclusion, Herocraft is fun and with a staff made up of volunteers, I expect things to be far from perfect. I just personally wish that the rules were more strict like they used to be so that the server could have fun rather than have to deal with a toxic environment.

See you all at the meeting.

Only on so far to mention why I also don't like arenas.

From what I've seen in previous maps arenas just wasn't the same after Bastion. People would just go between spawn and their town just spamming /a j for months never really doing anything on the server anymore. Not really that fun.

On top of that the arena plug in used can have some crazy bugs. We had a whole issue with last map people losing items in survival because of arena. Not really that fun for staff to deal with. The plugin doesn't work well, isn't dynamic with the server and overall just doesn't fit into herocraft as well. I agree people need a place to practice their classes but arena isn't the answer.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

Only on so far to mention why I also don't like arenas.

From what I've seen in previous maps arenas just wasn't the same after Bastion. People would just go between spawn and their town just spamming /a j for months never really doing anything on the server anymore. Not really that fun.

On top of that the arena plug in used can have some crazy bugs. We had a whole issue with last map people losing items in survival because of arena. Not really that fun for staff to deal with. The plugin doesn't work well, isn't dynamic with the server and overall just doesn't fit into herocraft as well. I agree people need a place to practice their classes but arena isn't the answer.

Agreed, I've shared this same view for a while now.

 

[LordZelkova]

I feel like we should hold on the custom armor for now. Because we already limit the enchants for balance purposes. It ends up making the armor quite subpar and not super OP. Any of the armor that we do sell should probably be the best stuff we allow to be enchanted (like boots, feathfalling 4, depth strider 3, unbreaking). Like it was mentioned above I would like to see attribute bonuses be possible on armor. It will really help integrate the custom items into Heroes.

They were possible at one point, @Kainzo is this till the case?