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List of Changes For Friday

Joined
Apr 1, 2013
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298
#1
For now, I'm just going to put down what my suggested changes are. By Thursday night/Early Friday it will edited to being the actual changes, so don't freak out if you see something here you don't like.

Paladin:
Increase diamond sword damage from 41->51.25

Samurai:
Increase diamond sword damage from 60.8->76
Reduce the cooldown of Murasame from 2 min-15 sec
Reduce stamina of Murasame from 350-250

Dreadknight:
Increase diamond axe damage from 52->104
Decrease SoulLeech mana cost 100->75
Decrease Atrophy mana cost 100->75
Decrease Empathy mana cost 125->100

Dragoon:
Increase diamond shovel damage from 56->121.6
Increase Jump cooldown from 7.5->15
Increase Jump Stamina 300->400
Lower piercingstrike from 50% weapon damage to 25% (to compensate for the left click increase)
Lower cleave from 100% weapon damage to 50% (to compensate for the left click increase)

Berserker:
Increase diamond axe damage from 58.8->117.6
Increase BloodDrinker's max hp gained 200-275
Change provoke to 30% more damage done vs. 15% more damage taken


Ninja:
Decrease shear damage from 45-35
Increase Diamond sword damage from 69->86.25
Increase Backflip cooldown 6->7

Runeblade:
"Devour Magic might suck less"
Removed heal of Runewraith's timerune

Ranger:
Increase diamond axe damage from 47->94

Bard:
Increase music disc damage from 25->30 [ignore this 41]
Increase Diamond sword damage from 39->48.75

Pyromancer:
Increase diamond axe damage from 56->112
Increase Infernoflash Cooldown 10->15
Decrease GreatCombustion Damage 100+(1.5 per int) -> 90+(1 per int)
Removed shield

Necromancer:
Decrease Bonespear range 20->15

Wizard:
None

Beguiler:
Remove shield
Swap Beguile/Piggify in at level gained: 25/35 ->35/25
Increase mana cost of Plaguebomb 125->185
Decrease Plaguebomb Cooldown 20->17
Added summonfood as a level 5 skill. 45 sec cooldown

Cleric:
None

Druid:
Add Chainmail leggings to base armor

Bloodmage:
None

Disciple:
Blaze rod damage 30->33
Smite mana cost 100->80


Shaman:
Remove Shield until custom shields are in
Increase Diamond axe damage from 45->90
Lower totem recall max mana returned from 90%->50%

Professions:
Blacksmith Deconstruct no cooldown, 100 stamina
Miner/Blacksmith: SmeltIron/SmeltGold 100 Stamina, no cooldown

@Balance Team
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 23, 2012
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122
#2
Does Druid really need more chain armor? Everytime I play it the heals are more than enough to sustain.

Also I don't think pyromancer axe damage should be 100+. It isn't like berserker who relies on left click more. I think it should be in the 70-80 range.

Edit 1: not related to classes but now that speed breaks on combat I think the cooldown should be lowered on it.


Edit 2: on further thought and discussion with @FaZeAlpine I retract my above statements, I think the numbers might actually work out.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
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298
#4
Curious, why the Hit to bonespear? Harmshield or Draionsoul seem like much better targets.
I considered harmshield, but I thought drainsoul and the survivability that comes with it was more core to necro. That being said i feel like its in too strong of a spot and keeping your enemies that far away probably adds to it.
Does Druid really need more chain armor? Everytime I play it the heals are more than enough to sustain.

Also I don't think pyromancer axe damage should be 100+. It isn't like berserker who relies on left click more. I think it should be in the 70-80 range.

Edit 1: not related to classes but now that speed breaks on combat I think the cooldown should be lowered on it.
Druid was the first class I played on here and I was getting smacked around really easily. The armor used to be even higher than the chain leggings, and especially with the large increase in warrior damage I think current druid is too fragile. For Pyro, I agree, however I based the math on the 1.8 damage so it should be equal to what it was. Once we get the chance to move this all to a test server we can figure it out.
 

0xNaomi

Wiki Team
Coder
Balance Team
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Joined
Feb 22, 2013
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120
#5
Shaman:
Remove Shield until custom shields are in
Increase Diamond axe damage from 45->92
Decrease Healingsurge Mana/Stam recovered per tick from 3+(0.05 per int) -> 1.8+(0.05 per int). [Goes from 43.5% recovered over 20 sec to 31.5% for tier 1 shaman]
  • Rude.
  • K.
  • Why? Legit question, what's the reason.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Likes
298
#6
  • Rude.
  • K.
  • Why? Legit question, what's the reason.
The ultimate goal needs to be splitting shaman into the caster and healer version. The current version just has too much of everything. Cleansespirit, healing totem, healing surge keep you nice and healthy while using the slow totem, windgale, chillingstrike, plus the knockback of firestrike to keep them off of you. One of the major problems I saw was that healingsurge allows you to basically keep totems out for as long as you want, and I think a shaman needs to make sacrifices for which totem it wants out when, not just using whichever one while maintaining its mana pool.
 

0xNaomi

Wiki Team
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Feb 22, 2013
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#7
The ultimate goal needs to be splitting shaman into the caster and healer version. The current version just has too much of everything. Cleansespirit, healing totem, healing surge keep you nice and healthy while using the slow totem, windgale, chillingstrike, plus the knockback of firestrike to keep them off of you. One of the major problems I saw was that healingsurge allows you to basically keep totems out for as long as you want, and I think a shaman needs to make sacrifices for which totem it wants out when, not just using whichever one while maintaining its mana pool.
Personally, I feel that totems/recall should have their cooldowns ripped out, allowing them to (at a substantially increased mana cost, as TotemRecall sustains mana based on how long the totem is out) be more flexible with the requirement to not suck.

As for sustain, HealingSurge sustains the uses of CleanseSpirit/ShockingStrike/EarthernFury rather than the totems themselves.
Again, the totems themselves are sustained via ToremRecall; if it was perfectly timed you get ~90% of the mana back from the skill.

If/when we do a major rework of Shaman, Kain has repeatedly expressed that the melee skills should be removed.
This, along with a split/rework of totems, would mean that if/when we split it to healer/caster the skills will be very different regardless.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Likes
183
#8
I considered harmshield, but I thought drainsoul and the survivability that comes with it was more core to necro. That being said i feel like its in too strong of a spot and keeping your enemies that far away probably adds to it.

Druid was the first class I played on here and I was getting smacked around really easily. The armor used to be even higher than the chain leggings, and especially with the large increase in warrior damage I think current druid is too fragile. For Pyro, I agree, however I based the math on the 1.8 damage so it should be equal to what it was. Once we get the chance to move this all to a test server we can figure it out.
Just because you were getting destroyed doesn't mean the class needs a buff... I played druid this map as well and it was in a perfectly good spot. The armor used to be even higher because you favor the class and freaked when we tried changing it. Now for your suggestions to the axe/shovel warriors, that's just way too much. A x2 (In Dragoon's case more) is way too much.


Almost all of your changes are at EXTREME amounts which I don't think is good.
 

0xNaomi

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Feb 22, 2013
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#9
Just because you were getting destroyed doesn't mean the class needs a buff... I played druid this map as well and it was in a perfectly good spot. The armor used to be even higher because you favor the class and freaked when we tried changing it. Now for your suggestions to the axe/shovel warriors, that's just way too much. A x2 (In Dragoon's case more) is way too much.


Almost all of your changes are at EXTREME amounts which I don't think is good.
I get the idea of scaling all weps to the formula FaZe gave...
...but I see RB is unchanged, so I don't know if these numbers are even to that.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
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298
#10
Just because you were getting destroyed doesn't mean the class needs a buff... I played druid this map as well and it was in a perfectly good spot. The armor used to be even higher because you favor the class and freaked when we tried changing it. Now for your suggestions to the axe/shovel warriors, that's just way too much. A x2 (In Dragoon's case more) is way too much.


Almost all of your changes are at EXTREME amounts which I don't think is good.
The armor used to be higher before I was even on the balance team, then i nerfed it to only chain leggings, then it was nerfed to only leather while I wasn't at a meeting. If you actually contributed or tested the classes you would know that the damages aren't actually that high. If people keep spamming then the damage really isnt that much, it all comes down to the attack speed cap. I'm going to reduce ninja's diamond sword by a tad because combined with backstab its a little over the top.
I get the idea of scaling all weps to the formula FaZe gave...
...but I see RB is unchanged, so I don't know if these numbers are even to that.
I didn't change runeblade because I tested it with the current numbers and it still seemed strong. Rb didn't lose that much from 1.9 because it can still get its runes off consistently.
 
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Mar 31, 2013
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#11
The armor used to be higher before I was even on the balance team, then i nerfed it to only chain leggings, then it was nerfed to only leather while I wasn't at a meeting. If you actually contributed or tested the classes you would know that the damages aren't actually that high. If people keep spamming then the damage really isnt that much, it all comes down to the attack speed cap. I'm going to reduce ninja's diamond sword by a tad because combined with backstab its a little over the top.

I didn't change runeblade because I tested it with the current numbers and it still seemed strong. Rb didn't lose that much from 1.9 because it can still get its runes off consistently.
You really haven't played much, have you? You can spam the weapons for a nice amount of damage still. I feel like you haven't tested the classes with the 1.9 changes enough to make these extremely large changes.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
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#12
You really haven't played much, have you? You can spam the weapons for a nice amount of damage still. I feel like you haven't tested the classes with the 1.9 changes enough to make these extremely large changes.
I've been playing pretty much nonstop for the last couple days, and tested all the new leftclick changes on the test server with each class. If you spam it does a ton less damage. You may be confused with shears because those still did a bunch of damage with backstab/low swing timer.

And these aren't even just my changes, we've had a meeting to discuss how we needed to balance with 1.9, and came up with the new numbers. Show up to the meetings and voice your opinion there.
 
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#13
I've been playing pretty much nonstop for the last couple days, and tested all the new leftclick changes on the test server with each class. If you spam it does a ton less damage. You may be confused with shears because those still did a bunch of damage with backstab/low swing timer.
No. I've played multiple classes with a variety of weapons both on test and on live. While yes you do less damage by spamming left click you still do a good chunk of damage.
 

LordZelkova

Ashen One...
Tier 8
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#14
I've been playing pretty much nonstop for the last couple days, and tested all the new leftclick changes on the test server with each class. If you spam it does a ton less damage. You may be confused with shears because those still did a bunch of damage with backstab/low swing timer.

And these aren't even just my changes, we've had a meeting to discuss how we needed to balance with 1.9, and came up with the new numbers. Show up to the meetings and voice your opinion there.
My main issue is with goon.
Via spam click you get ~25 Damage.
Waiting 1/4 a second brings this to ~32 Damage.
While not 121 damage, they can spam their 25-30 damage, and at max click speed vs classes who must wait to receive damage similar they add up fast.
 
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Apr 1, 2013
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#15
My main issue is with goon.
Via spam click you get ~25 Damage.
Waiting 1/4 a second brings this to ~32 Damage.
While not 121 damage, they can spam their 25-30 damage, and at max click speed vs classes who must wait to receive damage similar they add up fast.
Well think of it this way - In 1.8 dragoon's had the left click damage of 60.8. The max they can attack in 1.8 is once every 0.5 seconds due to immunity frames. In 1.9, with a recovery speed of 1 second for a shovel, they have to wait twice the amount of time to get the same damage off on a target. We can always lower it if upon release its too strong.
 

0xNaomi

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#16
Well think of it this way - In 1.8 dragoon's had the left click damage of 60.8. The max they can attack in 1.8 is once every 0.5 seconds due to immunity frames. In 1.9, with a recovery speed of 1 second for a shovel, they have to wait twice the amount of time to get the same damage off on a target. We can always lower it if upon release its too strong.
So you're going to use the timing as logic, okay.

I didn't change runeblade because I tested it with the current numbers and it still seemed strong. Rb didn't lose that much from 1.9 because it can still get its runes off consistently.
...except for when you're not?
What?

If you're going to say that 1.9 means we need to change things and see how they go, change all the things.
 
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#17
So you're going to use the timing as logic, okay.


...except for when you're not?
What?

If you're going to say that 1.9 means we need to change things and see how they go, change all the things.
As I said above I already tested runeblade with the current damage vs casters/healers and it's still very strong. The new numbers aren't staying 100% - we already need to lower ninjas sword damage a bit, and might need to look at dragoon again as well.
 
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#18
So i increased jump's cooldown to 15, however I can't think of what would be the appropriate compensation for it, I know we vaguely mentioned "make it better in fights" - however I don't know what to do besides just increasing its left click, again. We could possibly lower piercingstrike/strikes cd by a very small amount as well as decrease the stamina cost a tad. I'm not quite sure, any suggestions?
@Balance Team
 

FaZeAlpine

ICE ICE ICE!
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#19
So i increased jump's cooldown to 15, however I can't think of what would be the appropriate compensation for it, I know we vaguely mentioned "make it better in fights" - however I don't know what to do besides just increasing its left click, again. We could possibly lower piercingstrike/strikes cd by a very small amount as well as decrease the stamina cost a tad. I'm not quite sure, any suggestions?
@Balance Team
15 -> 12.5?

5 second increase seems fine to be honest. Especially with Ninja's backflip at 6 seconds.
 
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#20
15 -> 12.5?

5 second increase seems fine to be honest. Especially with Ninja's backflip at 6 seconds.
Its 7 seconds now. But yeah if you came to the meeting you could have voiced your opinion. I also think it shouldn't be that high, but it seems like thats what "everyone" wants so i pushed it.
 
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