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Level Scaling

leftovers5

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
USA
Leveling at this point in time is an extremely tedious endeavor. In my opinion, it should be scaled in a manner more conducive to leveling quickly. "Quickly" being relative - just faster than the speed it is at now.

Of note, I find it particularly tough for healer classes to kill mobs.

Though Mob Arenas are not coming back, the subject of the MA made me want to touch upon the speed of class leveling. Thoughts?
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
I think that leveling is unnecessarily slow and unnecessarily unenjoyable. It is easily akin to "work". It is not fun, and it is a colossal waste of time. It makes me rage a bit, if I'm honest. The players are also discouraged from finding clever ways to level, such as mob farms, caves, dark rooms, or any other "half legal" to full blown illegal type system. It makes the process a reeeal drag.


---
When I was a noob, and I was a bit unfamiliar with certain rules, I did a few things that were easily considered illegal. There was a small cave beneath the Umbra Swamp, and it was actually a pretty advanced system. There were multiple entry and exit points, and it was all interconnected. Because very few mobs would spawn during the night, and obviously none during the day, I would often drop into the caves and kill mobs in there. There were..no torches. One might view what I was doing to be the same as "using a dark room".

Because I was doing it so often, I began to carve out that cave. I evened the floors, I shaved off corners, and placed cobblestone stairs in areas that dropped down a block or two (so that I could always backpedal while fighting creepers). However, it was still really annoying to fight in this cave, as it was pitch black. Since I was an Alchemist, I eventually started making night vision potions, and would level with my friend in there. It was...pretty fun, actually. Expensive, but fun.

That cave at this point became a dungeon of sorts, and we called it the Rape Cave. We placed signs at specific areas, giving them a name so we could reference it in TS. We developed our own routine of moving through the cave and coming up above ground. During our time leveling in there, we died a lot of times...I mean A LOT of times--there was a reason it was called the rape cave. I Easily died more in there than I would have leveling on the surface.

I didn't really feel that what I was doing was illegal. In my mind, I was just finding a more fun way to level. And as effective as that cave was, it was not a safe place, and I can assure you I lost well over a couple levels of XP just mastering a single class. However, after I had mastered once, my townmates learned of how I did it, and informed me that what I was doing was illegal. They told me that I should stop, but if I insisted on continuing, I needed to light up the cave. I didn't want to stop, so I lit it up. However, I lit it up in the least effective way possible, so that I could still retain a large amount of mob spawns while traversing the cave. I continued to level in that cave.

From the beginning, creepers were the bane of that fucking cave. Hour after hour, day after day, creepers would blow gigantic holes in every nook and cranny of the cave. In order to make sure it was a pleasant leveling experience, I maintained it. I would bring stacks of torches, stacks of cobblestone, and stacks of cobblestone stairs. Every time a creeper blew up, I repaired that fucking cave. I often even put my own life at stake to do so; it caused me a lot of deaths. Even still, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed that cave. Several of my friends and townmates used that cave, and they would do the same. It made leveling interesting, and it definitely took the snoozfest out of the standard "run around the forest until you find mobs".

Until eventually, the freepers (A group of players that go by the name of "Fire Creepers") decided that what we were doing should not be allowed, and they did not want us using it any more. They lured creepers to all of my torches, blew them up, and then /pe'd the cave. Shortly afterwards, the whole cave was world edited to stone, and it was gone forever. We tried to dig it up a couple times, but the same shit would happen, and eventually, we gave up trying.

I have stopped trying to level since this incident. Nay, I flat out refuse--because I'm not spending my free time to 'work' on something that is supposed to be fun. I believe that the above kind of behavior is complete bullshit, and I think it's a perfect example of how certain rules and players really hurt the enjoyment of the server.

I understand Kainzo wishes for mobs to be difficult, I understand he doesn't want people to exploit to be mastered, and I even understand him wanting it to take a long time to master. However, in the current state of the map, I find that the leveling is nothing more than a hindrance and a nuisance. It's tedious, boring, work that only serves as a means to mix up your PvP experience. I'd wager that many new players quit the server due to the lack of interesting PvE content, or due to the fact that they can't level up quick enough to stay on par with mastered PvPers.

Yes, the Adventure map is coming, and there are a lot of different people working towards getting that going (including myself), but right now, there is no PvE content, and any interesting, quick, or less painless method of leveling is stomped to the ground before you can even have a chance to benefit from it.

Now, I fully understand why Mob Spawners and Dark Rooms are illegal, and why they should stay illegal, but I'll be frank, I'm fucking sick of HC PvE, and I'd like to see it changed up a bit. Even if it's only a quick change that ties us over until the Adventure Map releases. Just give us something. Please.
 

leftovers5

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
USA
I think that leveling is unnecessarily slow and unnecessarily unenjoyable. It is easily akin to "work". It is not fun, and it is a colossal waste of time. It makes me rage a bit, if I'm honest. The players are also discouraged from finding clever ways to level, such as mob farms, caves, dark rooms, or any other "half legal" to full blown illegal type system. It makes the process a reeeal drag.


---
When I was a noob, and I was a bit unfamiliar with certain rules, I did a few things that were easily considered illegal. There was a small cave beneath the Umbra Swamp, and it was actually a pretty advanced system. There were multiple entry and exit points, and it was all interconnected. Because very few mobs would spawn during the night, and obviously none during the day, I would often drop into the caves and kill mobs in there. There were..no torches. One might view what I was doing to be the same as "using a dark room".

Because I was doing it so often, I began to carve out that cave. I evened the floors, I shaved off corners, and placed cobblestone stairs in areas that dropped down, so that I could always backpedal while fighting creepers. However, it was really annoying to fight in this cave, as it was pitch black. Since I was an Alchemist, I eventually started making night vision potions, and would level with my friend in there. It was...pretty fun, actually.

That cave became a dungeon of sorts. We placed signs at specific areas, and developed our own routine of moving through the cave and coming up above ground. During our time leveling in there, we died a lot of times...A LOT of times. I didn't really feel that what I was doing was illegal. I was just finding a more fun way to level. And as useful as that cave was, it was not safe, and I can assure you I lost well over a couple levels of XP just mastering 1 class. However, after I had mastered once, my townmates informed me that what I was doing was illegal, and that it needed to be lit up. So I lit it up. I lit it up in the least amount possible, so that I could still retain a large amount of mob spawns, and I continued to level in that cave.

However, from the beginning, creepers were the bane of that thing. Time after time, day after day, creepers tore that thing a new one, and it would become ruined. In order to make sure it was a pleasant leveling experience, I maintained it. I would bring stacks of torches, stacks of cobblestone, and stacks of cobblestone stairs. Every time a creeper blew up, I repaired that fucking cave. I often even put my own life at stake to do so; it caused me a lot of deaths. Even still, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed that cave. Several of my friends and townmates used that cave, and they would do the same. It made leveling interesting, and it definitely took the snoozfest out of the standard "run around the forest until you find mobs".

Until eventually, the freepers decided that it should not legal, and they did not want us using it any more. They lured creepers to all of my torches, blew them up, and then /pe'd the cave. Shortly after it was world edited, and was gone forever. We tried to dig it up a couple times, but the same shit would happen, and eventually, we gave up trying. I have stopped trying to level since this incident. Nay, I flat out refuse--because I'm not spending my free time to work on something that is supposed to be fun.

I believe that the above kind of behavior is complete bullshit, and I think it's a perfect example of how certain rules and players really hurt the enjoyment of the server.

I understand Kainzo wishes for mobs to be difficult, I understand he doesn't want people to exploit to be mastered, and I even understand him wanting it to take a long time to master. However, in the current state of the map, I find that the leveling is nothing more than a hindrance and a nuisance. It's tedious, boring, work that only grants slight enjoyment to the players. I'd wager that many new players quit the server due to the lack of interesting PvE content.

Yes, the Adventure map is coming, and there are a lot of different people working towards getting that going (including myself), but right now, there is no PvE content, and any interesting, quick, or less painless method of leveling is stomped to the ground before you can even have a chance to benefit from it.

Now, I fully understand why Dark rooms are illegal, and why they should stay illegal, but I'll be frank, I'm fucking sick of HC PvE, and I'd like to see it changed up a bit. Even if it's only a quick change that ties us over until the Adventure Map releases. Just give us something. Please.
I am hoping that Dungeons will replace the MAs from DragonGuarde. Some of those MAs were so well designed, fun, immersive, etc. I honestly which they were kept around this map until Dungeons were implemented because it is a pain in the ass to level, and this interim period is the worst experience I've had leveling in HC yet. In every way, shape, or form leveling is discouraged through the intense restrictions on dark areas. It makes it near impossible to get anything done.

Ex: it is in no way is it fun to spam Ire and hit things with your hoe repeatedly for a half hour to maybe get half way to the next level. That isn't fun, that is work.
 

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
I agree completely, I have played since the first minutes of server up on this map and have only leveled two specs because of the drag that is combat leveling.

I believe and @Kainzo you can correct me if I am wrong. We are waiting for the HeroBosses and HeroDrops to release dungeons. While I understand that these are two systems that would look wonderful added with the dungeons release I also have heard that they are progressing slowly and have no real eta. That being the case I would suggest considering adding dungeons earlier (preferably more then one) and just blocking off the boss rooms to allow the anticipation to build for players or changing policy on spawners and darkrooms. Personally spawner camping being illegal I have never understood. You already only get .1 or less the normal xp and the mobs do normal damage so why have it illegal? Same with dark rooms. I know the reason I have heard before was they were pulling mobs from the overland and degrading the overworld experience but with the butcher happening with each night it seems like it would not be as much of an issue. I know these are sore issues but they are real issues and should be considered.

Long story short,
Don't wait to implement dungeons, just block off the boss rooms/areas until the mods are ready
0r
Allow Spawner/Darkroom grinding (might speed things up but would not be as much fun)

One last note, although it was not "fun" when the spawner plugin was working leveling was rather quick and easy enough to do. Is that plugin fixed and could we start quadrupling the spawn rate over land again?
 

Licksterboy

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Location
USA
I don't really have much to say other than the fact I really did not want to level my already mastered classes to level 65 once the cap got raised just because of the time it took to level.
 
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