Suggestion Leather for books?

[j2gay]

Let me start by saying I do not know if it was minecraft or Herocraft that decided books should require leather. Whichever is the case I can see where the idea came from. As far as realism goes books would be bound by leather.

However from a practicability standpoint, it is entirely ridiculous. I understand that many players who would need book shelves might only need a few, perhaps for an enchanting table. However there is another use for bookshelves that I believe has been overlooked.

Architecture. I have never built a town on any minecraft server that did not in some way incorparate a library. My town library last map, if I remember correctly used 22stacks of bookshelves. thats 1,408 bookshelves, 4,224 books. With a leather drop rate around 1 in every 2.5 that means I would need to slaughter 10,560 cows to build my library. Even a modest library requiring say 10 stacks of bookshelves would require 4,800 cows

With the lag we have been combating, and the continual elimination of all mobs and animals with the butcher command, aquiring that many cows would be next to impossible. At the present combat classes that require leather are finding it difficult to find enough to keep armor in supply/repair. There is certainly not enough supply to use it for books as well.

What do you think @Kainzo, @Alator, @Sleaker. Is there some way to fix this, or are we fine with the coming absence of libraries on Bastion?

 

[Kainzo]

Minecraft in 1.3 requires leather for books.

 

[j2gay]

Minecraft in 1.3 requires leather for books.

Can we not change the recipe?

 

[Kainzo]

I don't see why we would. Leather isnt that rare, make friends with farmers

 

[Aesi]

I don't see why we would. Leather isnt that rare, make friends with farmers

Considering you changed the leather drop rate, it is very rare. Vanilla had just changed it from 1-3 for every kill, you kept it how it used to be even tho leather has a new use. Kinda silly there kainzo.

 

[Kainzo]

Considering you changed the leather drop rate, it is very rare. Vanilla had just changed it from 1-3 for every kill, you kept it how it used to be even tho leather has a new use. Kinda silly there kainzo.

Leather drop rate is unchanged, what are you referring to?
I just spawned 10 cows, I killed them. Here are the drops.
19 beef
8 leather.

Maybe ... don't smoke crack?

 

[Iarbobray]

8 leather from 10 cows isn't dustger's mentioned 1-3 leather from every kill.

Anyway, to make ocelots useful and books easier to obtain, ocelots should drop leather, 0-1.

Now you can pet your cat and read a book at the same time!

 

[Kainzo]

We havent adjusted the drop rates whatsoever from animals. So no clue what "1-3" every kill means or how that translates into Herocraft's changing shit.

 

[Aesi]

I guess I was wrong, they changed some mob drops in vanilla during 1.3 but not leather from cows.
Thought I'd read that all mobs were dropping at least 1 of each item now back when I read the patch notes for 1.3.

 

[Kainzo]

It's possible, though we havent adjusted or changed any drops for animals

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

Suggestion...as @Kainzo stated make friends with farmers, however, lets try to save leather anyway we can. Kainzo, can we switch the lether quest to ironbars. At the beginning of the map that room was also used for chainmail. So perhaps requiring 20 iron bars would be a suitable replacement for 15 leather. Next suggestion, allow alchemist to either transmute, or use cauldrons to make leather. It would be a very tedious task, but if you are determined to make a large library, it would be worth your time. This is a suggestion thread, so lets discuss, and see if we can find a way to make everyone happy without diluting leather sales for farmers and merch. More supply, less demand, lower prices. So for you to have your giant library, you would be taking away from other players. Offer a better solution and maybe Kainzo will hear you out.

 

[j2gay]

So I at 8 out of 10 I should only need 1,536 cows thats still alot of cows.
Edit: oops multiplied instead of dividing thats 2400 cows. So if my farmer can breed and kill 115 cows a day, everyday, for the next 3 weeks I can build a library.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

So I at 8 out of 10 I should only need 1,536 cows thats still alot of cows.
Edit: oops multiplied instead of dividing thats 2400 cows. So if my farmer can breed and kill 115 cows a day, everyday, for the next 3 weeks I can build a library.

This is correct

 

[Kainzo]

So I at 8 out of 10 I should only need 1,536 cows thats still alot of cows.
Edit: oops multiplied instead of dividing thats 2400 cows. So if my farmer can breed and kill 115 cows a day, everyday, for the next 3 weeks I can build a library.

You aren't equating that you can buy leather and get more than one farmer going

 

[Fjordsen]

Looting 3 sword = 1-3 leather every time.

 

[j2gay]

You aren't equating that you can buy leather and get more than one farmer going

Actually I did folow that thought. I made no mention of it because it didn't bear mentioning.
Leather is in short supply. Most farmers who are making leather right now are not selling it because their towns can't get enough to meet their need as it is.
Cows are one of the things killed by butcher. That means each time a farmer needs to start from scratch. That means it takes a decent amount of time. Any way you slice it its going to be very difficult to obtain leather in the quantities we are talking about.
Lets say I had ten farmers producing 12 cows each a day. This would be a reasonable number considering they still have their own town to supply. Thats still three weeks worth of leather. If they could somehow produce 23 each a day just for me thats still a week and a half of their time. I can't be the only one that intends to build a library at some point.
Also how much time will it take them each day considering they need to fit the spawning,growing , and slaughtering into 1hour windows to avoid butcher.(unless the 1hour gap between butcher has changed)
Now lets pretend for a moment that I could find 10 farmers willing to spend the next week and a half of their playing time making my leather. How much will that cost? I do still have a town to pay for.
On another note how am I supposed to explain to my townspeople, many of whom remark daily about the difficulty of obtaining enough leather to keep themselves armored that I managed to track down 30 stacks of it, and it is now decorating the walls of my castle. Then tell them that I intend to purchase 30 more to build my library. Something tells me thats not going to go over very well.
If you want to say "Hey this is a hardcore server its supposed to be difficult." or "Maybe you should find a better way to decorate." or even" We are trying to make farmers more valuable." fine. I can live with that. I will either find a way to build it as I want or change the design. I'm a pretty darn good builder so I'm sure I can figure something out.
However if you are saying "hey its no big deal to do", or "that seems like a reasonable amount of effort for a decoration" I think you're kidding yourself.
And Kainzo I have loads of respect for you but making jokes about people smoking crack on a suggestion thread, your better than that. It's your forum but thats just bad form.

 

[Kainzo]

Actually I did folow that thought. I made no mention of it because it didn't bear mentioning.
Leather is in short supply. Most farmers who are making leather right now are not selling it because their towns can't get enough to meet their need as it is.
Cows are one of the things killed by butcher. That means each time a farmer needs to start from scratch. That means it takes a decent amount of time. Any way you slice it its going to be very difficult to obtain leather in the quantities we are talking about.
Lets say I had ten farmers producing 12 cows each a day. This would be a reasonable number considering they still have their own town to supply. Thats still three weeks worth of leather. If they could somehow produce 23 each a day just for me thats still a week and a half of their time. I can't be the only one that intends to build a library at some point.
Also how much time will it take them each day considering they need to fit the spawning,growing , and slaughtering into 1hour windows to avoid butcher.(unless the 1hour gap between butcher has changed)
Now lets pretend for a moment that I could find 10 farmers willing to spend the next week and a half of their playing time making my leather. How much will that cost? I do still have a town to pay for.
On another note how am I supposed to explain to my townspeople, many of whom remark daily about the difficulty of obtaining enough leather to keep themselves armored that I managed to track down 30 stacks of it, and it is now decorating the walls of my castle. Then tell them that I intend to purchase 30 more to build my library. Something tells me thats not going to go over very well.
If you want to say "Hey this is a hardcore server its supposed to be difficult." or "Maybe you should find a better way to decorate." or even" We are trying to make farmers more valuable." fine. I can live with that. I will either find a way to build it as I want or change the design. I'm a pretty darn good builder so I'm sure I can figure something out.
However if you are saying "hey its no big deal to do", or "that seems like a reasonable amount of effort for a decoration" I think you're kidding yourself.
And Kainzo I have loads of respect for you but making jokes about people smoking crack on a suggestion thread, your better than that. It's your forum but thats just bad form.

I didn't tell you to not smoke crack, I told duster, to not smoke crack.
We haven't adjusted drop rates at all for animals and he was proclaiming that "I" as in Herocraft, had changed it from Vanilla. This is not the case.

 

[j2gay]

I didn't tell you to not smoke crack, I told duster, to not smoke crack.
We haven't adjusted drop rates at all for animals and he was proclaiming that "I" as in Herocraft, had changed it from Vanilla. This is not the case.

I realize that. I just thought the former uncalled for, seeing the latter to have been sufficient. It bears noting that I have seen you make similar remarks in other threads and found them most humorous, as such remarks can be in the appropriate venue. Nevertheless I shall make no further mention of it here, as I have perhaps outstepped my bounds in objecting to it. I digress.
I regret to report that after attempting for several hours to find someone that would sell me leather in any quantity let alone the amount I need, and after careful deliberation with those of my townsfolk who have selected farming as a profesion, I have relinquished myself to the notion that a library of any scale nearing the scope of which I had intended is highly un-feasible.
I shall of course continue to endeavor towards a building resembling that which I had envisioned. However it appears increasingly probable that I should turn my efforts toward the first acceptable alternative that may present itself.
If you or anyone has a suggestion on the matter I shall be glad to hear of it.

 

[j2gay]

@Kainzo. I started this thread on a selfish note. I wanted to build a library and feared that current game restrictions would make it impossible. I realize now that no one gives a damn about my library. However, in pursuit of my selfish goal I have stumbled upon a much larger issue. Leather is rare. So rare that I cannot find anyone who will sell me any leather. However abundant you may assume leather is, or that it may indeed be, when no one will part with it because they have no expectation of getting more it indeed is rare.
Nevermind bookshelves how can people be expected to aqquire leather armor when no one is selling the materials. If they could by chance aqquire a suit of leather armor, will they actually want to wear it given its lack of durability and the difficulty of keeping it in repair.
Leather should be a relatively abundant commodity. It should also be relatively inexpensive given its limitted usefulness, and lack of durability. You can purchase nearly any item on herocraft. Every item I believe, with one exception: leather. I should note that there was one player who offered to sell me leather. He was joking, but offered to sell me as much leather I wanted for 140c each, thats about 15 1/2 times the price of gold.
When I began I saw this as a problem affecting a small group of architecture enthusiasts. I now see that this is a server wide issue. Leather armor was difficult enough to come by last map, before breeding restrictions were fixed, and before adding another demand for it without increasing the supply.

 

[eagles90809]

I give 2 damns about your library.

NOT
LOL

-SirEagle