Suggestion Lava in towns

[j2gay]

You make valid points, but the people I PVP with (well most of them) don't just like killing noobs, we really enjoy big fights. If we have 2-3 more people than the opposing town, we usually wait 15 mins then leave. The thing that bothers me the most is that towns have more than enough people to defend, but they resort to lava and not just fighting.

How many is enough though. If they have 10 lvl 25 and you have 3 lvl 65 the will likely still lose. Its not like there is a lot of parity between the levels.
Also what if they are working on something else and aren't interested in a fight right then? Should they have to fight you in their own town because you want to fight? We have to make allowance for others so that we can all enjoy the game together. To each their own.
There are plenty of PvP'ers in HC that like to kill /loot but have class and respect for others, I'm not overly worried about them. Its part of the game.
However we both know that there are many more who play with neither. They will chase every other player away in pursuit of what playing however they want and when the server is dead they will just move to the next without a care. These are the players we need to protect the server from. Those who wish only to harass will always find a way, we don't need to make it easier.
We have to remember when we are making rules that the rules are not for the people who will follow them, they are to protect against those who will not.

 

[Fjordsen]

So PvPers want Aegis to be hardcore, yet they want to ban lava and traps in towns even though that too is an aspect of PvP?

Killing someone deliberately with lava is still a player killing a player. Killing someone with a sword is the same thing, except that the player is more actively involved.

Ever since PvP was enabled in Sanctum, long before anyone here joined (including myself), traps, lava and fire has been important means of protecting your towns in PvP. Why make the PvP-server less hardcore now of all times, when we got the PvE server for those who don't want to get burnt by another player's lava?

 

[MalaWolf]

So PvPers want Aegis to be hardcore, yet they want to ban lava and traps in towns even though that too is an aspect of PvP?

Killing someone deliberately with lava is still a player killing a player. Killing someone with a sword is the same thing, except that the player is more actively involved.

Ever since PvP was enabled in Sanctum, long before anyone here joined (including myself), traps, lava and fire has been important means of protecting your towns in PvP. Why make the PvP-server less hardcore now of all times, when we got the PvE server for those who don't want to get burnt by another player's lava?

While I don't want to contribute to or extended this obvious flame war that needs to be locked. *cough @Moderators *cough

The 'PvP'ers in question don't have any issue with lava or pitfall traps, and would see them as a welcome addition in the defense of players town.
The issue that the 'PvP'ers have with lava, is that townships 3.0 has no-pvp safezones, so there is no way for a raider defend themselves in enemy houses, and defenders can lava them without risk of retaliation due to the safezones. (stuff that has no counter-play will often bring out rage/complaints like this thread)

You could argue, 'sure don't get stuck' or 'don't go to enemy towns unless they want to pvp' - this is why the 'PvP'ers are complaining about making the server more 'hardcore' - no-pvp safezones, and 'cheap' and 'risk free' ways to kill raiders isn't 'hardcore' such as lava.

Hope that clarified it a bit.

 

[Xhazed]

If you are going to keep lava remove the poison cause thats what 3 things you have to watchout from counting turrets. I mean i know it shouldbe hard to raid but with the safezone and the poison turrets plus lava it sounds impossible you would need like 100 layahands to survive for like 10 mins

 

[Jonsoon]

While I don't want to contribute to or extended this obvious flame war that needs to be locked. *cough [USERGROUP=12]@Moderators[/USERGROUP] *cough

The 'PvP'ers in question don't have any issue with lava or pitfall traps, and would see them as a welcome addition in the defense of players town.
The issue that the 'PvP'ers have with lava, is that townships 3.0 has no-pvp safezones, so there is no way for a raider defend themselves in enemy houses, and defenders can lava them without risk of retaliation due to the safezones. (stuff that has no counter-play will often bring out rage/complaints like this thread)

You could argue, 'sure don't get stuck' or 'don't go to enemy towns unless they want to pvp' - this is why the 'PvP'ers are complaining about making the server more 'hardcore' - no-pvp safezones, and 'cheap' and 'risk free' ways to kill raiders isn't 'hardcore' such as lava.

Hope that clarified it a bit.

There is no reason to lock as of yet. Stop tagging.


Anyway..

What does this even have to do with townships 3.0? I had lava traps in previous towns where no one could hurt me. Its no different.

 

[Jrr_]

So PvPers want Aegis to be hardcore, yet they want to ban lava and traps in towns even though that too is an aspect of PvP?

Killing someone deliberately with lava is still a player killing a player. Killing someone with a sword is the same thing, except that the player is more actively involved.

Ever since PvP was enabled in Sanctum, long before anyone here joined (including myself), traps, lava and fire has been important means of protecting your towns in PvP. Why make the PvP-server less hardcore now of all times, when we got the PvE server for those who don't want to get burnt by another player's lava?

I think the problem is people sitting in safe zones and using tnt.

 

[DrRidiculouz]

Pro

Heroes was not intended to be a pvp plugin, however that is what it is. Yes, people need to fight mobs to lvl up, but is many people's ultimate goal? to PVP. For me personally i hate lvling, and thats a HUGE reason I dislike this map, the amount of xp needed to master was increased by 50k. There is a PVE server for a reason, use it or don't complain about people camping and raiding you.

@Slickvngr there is a difference between placing lava on someone, and actively fighting them. half the time you provoke people and thats why you get killed

Provoke my ass. They raid us 24/7 everyday. They're always there when I get on. So I lava them. Can't even get out of my town anymore cause they don't got a life and I can't master. To me lava is PvP and they should learn to deal with it if they want to raid us.

 

[j2gay]

While I don't want to contribute to or extended this obvious flame war that needs to be locked. *cough [USERGROUP=12][USERGROUP=12]@Moderators[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP] *cough

The 'PvP'ers in question don't have any issue with lava or pitfall traps, and would see them as a welcome addition in the defense of players town.
The issue that the 'PvP'ers have with lava, is that townships 3.0 has no-pvp safezones, so there is no way for a raider defend themselves in enemy houses, and defenders can lava them without risk of retaliation due to the safezones. (stuff that has no counter-play will often bring out rage/complaints like this thread)

You could argue, 'sure don't get stuck' or 'don't go to enemy towns unless they want to pvp' - this is why the 'PvP'ers are complaining about making the server more 'hardcore' - no-pvp safezones, and 'cheap' and 'risk free' ways to kill raiders isn't 'hardcore' such as lava.

Hope that clarified it a bit.

Towns provide safety for members and danger for attackers? Ohh the humanity.

Again not everyone plays the same way. This is a game intended to be enjoyed by all. If a player does not want to fight you repeatedly in their own home they need to have some recourse. Other people are not and should not be required to accommodate your schedule.

If you are not finding the enjoyment you want in THEIR town, go back to your own town or try another town.

What this discussion comes down to is one group saying hey this is how I play and you either need to be more like me or leave. And the other group saying hey this is how I play and your welcome to play however you want so long as I don't have to take part when I don't want to.

In other words one side is being entirely irrational, repeating I want I want I want and the other side is saying ok you can have some of what you want so long as it doesn't interfere with my needs.

Is towns 3.0 a bit broken? Yes. Is removing lava placement going to fix it? No. And let's face it your not going to stop there. Once it is gone you will find something else to complain about. You will not be satisfied until towns offer no sanctuary whatsoever.
Some people build towns on PvP simply to feel like they accomplished something. They are harassed constantly and they feel triumphant once they finally complete the town and are safe from you. They draw their enjoyment from thwarting your efforts to harass them. You want to take that away because you think it will provide more victims. It won't. It will provide less victims because they just won't build towns here. What will be in it for them?

 

[Irishman81]

What this discussion comes down to is one group saying hey this is how I play and you either need to be more like me or leave. And the other group saying hey this is how I play and your welcome to play however you want so long as I don't have to take part when I don't want to.
In other words one side is being entirely irrational, repeating I want I want I want and the other side is saying ok you can have some of what you want so long as it doesn't interfere with my needs.

Wow, all I really did was make a suggestion.... I don't think I at all am saying my way or the highway, I like people to play, and mostly don't care of their playstyles.

 

[j2gay]

Wow, all I really did was make a suggestion.... I don't think I at all am saying my way or the highway, I like people to play, and mostly don't care of their playstyles.

Wasn't necessarily directed at you. However there are always two things you say with this type of suggestion. What you say, and the implications of what you say. You may not be saying my way or the highway but many are, and the implications for this type of change is just that.
I understand that having lava placed on you when you are trying to raid and then having the player run hidden is frustrating. It is however no more or less frustrating than being killed repeatedly on the day you just wanted to work on your town.
You may not have said well if all you wanted to do that day was build go to PvE, but others have, which is essentially saying my way or the highway.
It is important to consider both sides of an argument.

 

[Xhazed]

I mean towns have enough things helping turrets safezone poison and now lava... All raiders have is their hero class maybe pots but pots dont kill. So if it is going to be kept like that why not give raiders lava? Or something else. Something like tnt granades like a skill for a class that will let u put one tnt in a town and shit

 

[malikdanab]

The only compromise I can think of is that you get a combat timer whenever you place lava.

 

[j2gay]

The only compromise I can think of is that you get a combat timer whenever you place lava.

Yes but I'm not sure its possible.

 

[j2gay]

I mean towns have enough things helping turrets safezone poison and now lava... All raiders have is their hero class maybe pots but pots dont kill. So if it is going to be kept like that why not give raiders lava? Or something else. Something like tnt granades like a skill for a class that will let u put one tnt in a town and shit

When you assault a fixed position you are generally going to be at a large disadvantage. This is as it should be.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

There is no reason to lock as of yet. Stop tagging.


Anyway..

What does this even have to do with townships 3.0? I had lava traps in previous towns where no one could hurt me. Its no different.

Its not lava traps hes talking about, when you are in a safezone you can't place blocks and you can't hit anyone, but they can place blocks e.g. lava, and kill you by such means. Remove safezones or remove placement of lava. This was not before townships 3.0 since there were no safe zones.

 

[j2gay]

Its not lava traps hes talking about, when you are in a safezone you can't place blocks and you can't hit anyone, but they can place blocks e.g. lava, and kill you by such means. Remove safezones or remove placement of lava. This was not before townships 3.0 since there were no safe zones.

But towns were impenetrable. So it was very possible to attack raiders and lava raiders from places where you could not be harmed. PvP safe zones were put in as a counter to vulnerable regions. Checks and balances. PvP safe zones can be scrapped if regions are going to be impenetrable again. If regions are vulnerable PvP safe zones need to stay. This way both sides give and nobody gets everything they want. Its called compromise.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

But towns were impenetrable. So it was very possible to attack raiders and lava raiders from places where you could not be harmed. PvP safe zones were put in as a counter to vulnerable regions. Checks and balances. PvP safe zones can be scrapped if regions are going to be impenetrable again. If regions are vulnerable PvP safe zones need to stay. This way both sides give and nobody gets everything they want. Its called compromise.

What do you mean regions are vulnerable? Until I can break a block in your town they are not vulnerable. I did not see pvp safe zones with tnt, so why now. Its called a graveyard run to it and use it or die and sit there. At a graveyard both parties of people are even cannot place anything can only wait, that is how it should be in safezones inside a town.

 

[j2gay]

What do you mean regions are vulnerable? Until I can break a block in your town they are not vulnerable. I did not see pvp safe zones with tnt, so why now. Its called a graveyard run to it and use it or die and sit there. At a graveyard both parties of people are even cannot place anything can only wait, that is how it should be in safezones inside a town.

If you spend the time to assault the region you can break blocks, that's called vulnerable. It is slanted toward the defender on purpose. You are in their town, you should not be on equal footing. The PvP server population dropped by half within a week of TnT being implemented so I wouldn't tout that as an example if I was you. And again you are in their town, its not supposed to be even. It is supposed to be brutally hard for you to raid them. That is the idea get it through your head.

 

[RShooter2000]

If you want to place lava why dont u play pve you can place lava and not have to worry about being attacked you can go around the entire map without having to worry about being killed AND STILL PLACE LAVA isnt that amasing. Thats one of the MANY reasons i would choose pve over pvp

such a troll hahaha

 

[CoolBeans279]

Provoke my ass. They raid us 24/7 everyday. They're always there when I get on. So I lava them. Can't even get out of my town anymore cause they don't got a life and I can't master. To me lava is PvP and they should learn to deal with it if they want to raid us.

You have multiple classes maxed, its not our fault you switch switch. Infact, im pretty sure 99% of your town has at least 1 combat class maxed.

So don't even bring lvls into this, ever.


And you said lava is the only way you can defend yourself, LOL your town always has double the amount of people we have and most of you are either maxed or close to maxed, so if you have to use lava thats just sad.