Suggestion Kingdom wars- What needs to be done

[Aetosion]

@MajorasMask No. He was talking about all the shops along the roads that people went to, and all the fights on the roads.

I've long been an advocate of lessening the use of spawn. The way its built draws too many people inside its protections. A great amount of people have DG plots, use the TD, the dungeon, the sewer. You could master everything but professions, and never be at risk for PVP just by staying at spawn. With the rewards from MAs, you could get money and gear as well.

This shouldn't be a possibility. Spawns should help newbies understand the game, and allow new players to spawn their playerentity into the game. Putting too much functionality in a no-pvp area is a bad idea.

 

[MajorasMask]

@MajorasMask No. He was talking about all the shops along the roads that people went to, and all the fights on the roads.

I've long been an advocate of lessening the use of spawn. The way its built draws too many people inside its protections. A great amount of people have DG plots, use the TD, the dungeon, the sewer. You could master everything but professions, and never be at risk for PVP just by staying at spawn. With the rewards from MAs, you could get money and gear as well.

This shouldn't be a possibility. Spawns should help newbies understand the game, and allow new players to spawn their playerentity into the game. Putting too much functionality in a no-pvp area is a bad idea.

I have to agree. Although, not many people used the shops along the four roads out of spawn. Many used shopped inside of Zeal.

To be honest; there is nothing we can do about noble plots and the TD now. To be honest, the changes people want are a little extreme and would require a new map to do things. Maybe these changes can be made in the next map;

- Noble plots, but less of them. Maybe a little more expensive.
- A trade district, but a lot smaller; with more expensive shops, like in Zeal.
- No MAs in spawn (this fixes the rewards issue).

I still think we should focus on the main points of the thread.

I really think larger parties would work, alongside other things which would influence kingdoms to attack eachother.

 

[Fjordsen]

Idea: Move every single MA to along the roads. Maybe 300-500 blocks away from spawn. Remove regions above the road, so people can build obstacles etc. And make shops closer to the road.

 

[MajorasMask]

Idea: Move every single MA to along the roads. Maybe 300-500 blocks away from spawn. Remove regions above the road, so people can build obstacles etc. And make shops closer to the road.

Welcome to grief city.

 

[Fjordsen]

Welcome to grief city.

Not removing the region on the road itself. Last map people could build on the road and the sides of it. None of these things are possible now.

 

[Aetosion]

Majoras, you obviously did not play much of Zeal. People made branch roads and shops above the roads, touching them, etc.

In addition, earlier in Zeal there were no shops in the TD, that's the reason all those shops were along the roads. Child regions weren't working, as someone mentioned earlier.

 

[iHazBryn]

I honestly liked that one minute you would walk down a road with no trouble, then ten minutes later you would come back to find a battlefield with barricades and people setting up their forts in abandoned shops. Centring pvp on the roads made world pvp happen more, and made using the roads not just faster, but more dangerous.

On this map all the pvp is based at the HGs. I have not fought a single person at the roads because lets face it, the roads have little to no use.

I hope that next map, the roads are not regioned and Hero Gates are taken out. Also maybe there are gravyards along the road at 500, 1000, 1500 etc. All the Herogates promote this map is more border-humping and less foot travel, which is one of the things that made this server intense in the first place.

I also agree with whoever said about taking the trade district out. In zeal there was a trade district, but it was never put into use. People used their zeal plots as shops but those were mostly exclusive, and plots were implemented long after most merchants already had a shop on each road.

I really like the high risk high return of using a road. Plus the fact that you could just teleport 1500 blocks in any direction at any point.


Offtopic: Make a rule on towns being against either A:big cube, or B: Sky high walls with a glass dome. Maybe even make it so they have to at least leave one entrance open to the public. That would promote prettier towns, and more fun raids.

EDIT: I wouldn't be worried about the road being griefed because there are rules, and people are not just going to blatantly break them. If the do give them a ban.

Also maybe make a staff team that's ingame job is to clear the roads of griefs and report them or something, to take a load off the mods/admins.

 

[MajorasMask]

Majoras, you obviously did not play much of Zeal. People made branch roads and shops above the roads, touching them, etc.

In addition, earlier in Zeal there were no shops in the TD, that's the reason all those shops were along the roads. Child regions weren't working, as someone mentioned earlier.

I played a lot in Zeal. I know there were shops on the roads. Nobody camped shops, other than Airbus101's shop.

To be honest, there were thousands of shops on the roads; but nobody ever used them. Tonnes were griefed, ect.

 

[MajorasMask]

*Snip*

- Shops were rarely camped. The only shop that was camped was Airbus101's shop, which caused many issues. The TD wasn't used, true, because of child region issues, but it was there. People did use it (I know I did a lot). I like how it was smaller, though.

- There were Herogates in Zeal, people just built away from them. People didn't really know they were of much use, so they didn't get used often.

- The four roads out of Zeal were griefed massively. At the north road, masses of PvP caused a lot of destruction. Plus, in those battles, people did border hump. Nobody could fix griefs because it was constantly camped. The whole of the north road looked like a wasteland. I honestly don't feel like that is a good sight for a new player to see, it could put them off the server.

- Roads arn't less used now because of Herogates; they are used less because of graveyards. Graveyards allow people to spawn elsewhere, not at the central spawn. In Zeal, you would die, go back to spawn, then go to the road again. This happened a lot at the north road. At the begining of Dragon, the four roads were used A LOT more, and there were a lot more fights on them.

- As for ''making a rule forcing towns to make a way into their town'', I honestly see no point in this. Towns were hard to get into both in Sanctum and in Zeal. I see no reason why people should be forced to make ways into their town for everyone to use.

- As for clearing roads, I don't think that would actually happen because it isn't very ''legit''.

 

[iHazBryn]

- Shops were rarely camped. The only shop that was camped was Airbus101's shop, which caused many issues. The TD wasn't used, true, because of child region issues, but it was there. People did use it (I know I did a lot)

I almost stopped reading there.

How may I ask did you "use it a lot" when there were no shops?

I don't mean any disrespect, but I feel like you don't really know what you are talking about.

As for the rest of what you said.

-Airbus's shop was used for pvp, only because he built it over across the road RIGHT at the boundry. If it was 100 blocks back or even 50, no one would have camped it.

-The north road, for the majority of the map was not griefed. Near the end people stopped caring and started just focusing everything around the road. People had outposts and whatnot, and there were barricades. The roads in general were never griefed, things were just built on and near them.

-The herogates were broken for half the map, so everyone built on the roads. this caused the roads to be the center of everything.

-False, In zeal you spawned in a bed, in your town. Your argument is invalid.

-Did you play on sanctum? 90% of the larger towns had no walls, and you could explore without boundaries. All of them LOOKED amazing. Zeal most towns looked quite nice, but heros put big pressure on security.

This map everything looks like shit.

-Shops were used constantly. I don't know what world you lived in.


Baiscly everything is too controled this map. Not enough left to the players.

 

[Aetosion]

What Bryn said.

 

[Fjordsen]

Haha, we should just make the next map the excact same thing as Zeal except the Heroes changes xD Rails from spawn, Respawn in beds, same regions on roads as in Zeal, no TD, all MA's should be along the roads (300-500 blocks down the road, so if you want to level you need to leave no-pvp), put the most popular MA along The North road ;D, allow people to make fortresses/shops/obstacles along/on the road.

 

[MajorasMask]

I almost stopped reading there.

How may I ask did you "use it a lot" when there were no shops?

I don't mean any disrespect, but I feel like you don't really know what you are talking about.

As for the rest of what you said.

-Airbus's shop was used for pvp, only because he built it over across the road RIGHT at the boundry. If it was 100 blocks back or even 50, no one would have camped it.

-The north road, for the majority of the map was not griefed. Near the end people stopped caring and started just focusing everything around the road. People had outposts and whatnot, and there were barricades. The roads in general were never griefed, things were just built on and near them.

-The herogates were broken for half the map, so everyone built on the roads. this caused the roads to be the center of everything.

-False, In zeal you spawned in a bed, in your town. Your argument is invalid.

-Did you play on sanctum? 90% of the larger towns had no walls, and you could explore without boundaries. All of them LOOKED amazing. Zeal most towns looked quite nice, but heros put big pressure on security.

This map everything looks like shit.

-Shops were used constantly. I don't know what world you lived in.


Baiscly everything is too controled this map. Not enough left to the players.

- I've always said that Airbus101's shop was used for PvP. My point is that NO OTHER shop (such as those crummy shacks on the other roads) were active in PvP in the same way as his. There were MANY shops on the roads that were out of stock, with their owners bankrupt, ect. These were the shops that got no attention, and nobody every went to them.

- The North Road was griefed so much, what drugs were you on? Did you see it at the ends of the map? Wood blocks, cobble, stone, flowers, grass; everything everywhere. When something is built ONTOP of a road; it is a grief. Sure, some made small paths to their shops, but many just built ontop of everything else.

- Many people removed their bed spawn because of the PvP at the north road; to get to that area quicker.

- Remember in Sanctum when everything was locked up? When people had unlimited LWCs? When people COULDN'T kill eachother in a town region? Yeah. THAT is the reason there were fewer walls in most of the towns. Heroes didn't put pressure on security, it was the constant ''cleaning'' of towns that did, also how people could kill eachother inside a town region, and also how many people got less LWCs.

- In Zeal, did you ever see the south road? The area looked like a bomb site. As for the north road, with random blocks everywhere, half finished shops, ect, everything was a load of rubbish.

- Shops in the spawn were used a lot, I used many myself. This happened in a non-pvp area, and nobody complained. Shops didn't bring people to the north road, nor broken herogates, the towns CLOSE to the road did, which built up a reputation for the area; which is why plenty came to fight.

 

[iHazBryn]

-snoop-

The road looked like shit because they were player built. Yes there was griefing but that was dealt with by the admins in a professional matter. I'm not saying that they should be player built, I'm saying that on this current map, too little is left to the players.

The roads feel lifeless, the herogates feel like warzones. One of the big things about herocraft that kept it so different from other servers was that spawn was exactly what Aetosion said " Spawns should help newbies understand the game" not be a safezone that has everything someone needed. Everything was player built and player created. The map was formed around spawn, not around the HGs, GYs, and the roads.

If you needed something you had to go out and adventure, not just sit in spawn.

 

[MajorasMask]

The road looked like shit because they were player built. Yes there was griefing but that was dealt with by the admins in a professional matter. I'm not saying that they should be player built, I'm saying that on this current map, too little is left to the players.

The roads feel lifeless, the herogates feel like warzones. One of the big things about herocraft that kept it so different from other servers was that spawn was exactly what Aetosion said " Spawns should help newbies understand the game" not be a safezone that has everything someone needed. Everything was player built and player created. The map was formed around spawn, not around the HGs, GYs, and the roads.

If you needed something you had to go out and adventure, not just sit in spawn.

The roads were seriously ugly, which is why something had to be done to clean them up.

The roads are lifeless now because the location of PvP has moved, to the HGs. People COULD EASILY build forts and such near the HGs, nothing is to stop them. Infact, I think that is a brilliant idea!

If you are making these points to say that there isn't any PvP on the server (or a lot less), then I honestly don't understand you. There is tonnes of PvP, it just moves around. I still am able to raid areas when I wish, I can still join raids to fight people I don't like. The level of success I get is the same to that of Sanctum and Zeal. Just because PvP is not central to a specific spot constantly, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you want to PvP more, join groups like the TC or Legacy. They like to attack others.

As for a smaller trade district, less noble plots next map and sewer moving; i've already said that i'd like to see these things happening.

 

[iHazBryn]

The roads were seriously ugly, which is why something had to be done to clean them up.

The roads are lifeless now because the location of PvP has moved, to the HGs. People COULD EASILY build forts and such near the HGs, nothing is to stop them. Infact, I think that is a brilliant idea!

If you are making these points to say that there isn't any PvP on the server (or a lot less), then I honestly don't understand you. There is tonnes of PvP, it just moves around. I still am able to raid areas when I wish, I can still join raids to fight people I don't like. The level of success I get is the same to that of Sanctum and Zeal. Just because PvP is not central to a specific spot constantly, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you want to PvP more, join groups like the TC or Legacy. They like to attack others.

As for a smaller trade district, less noble plots next map and sewer moving; i've already said that i'd like to see these things happening.

Ok first of all I have never said a single thing about there being less pvp. All I have said is that it does not fee like world pvp any more, it almost feels controlled.

Second of all I am part of the TC and I kill people on a regular biases. I have no issue with the amount of pvp just how controlled it is. The road are regioned, the area around the hg's are regioned, the GY's are regioned and the towns are big shoeboxes that guess what, are regioned. There is no flow to pvp anymore. It used to feel like the boundaries on the road signified the edge of control and the rest was all by the players. Now it feels like pvp moves from people camping one safe zone to another.

I would not expect you to understand seeing as I can count the amount of times I have seen your name come up in the kill feed on one hand.

I'm not calling myself a pro pvper, but I have centred my a lot of my time on herocraft around pvping. Sure I've done other things but pvp has been my main interest.


PS: During none of this am I trying to anger you or upset you, this is purely my opinion. I have a lot of respect for you majora.

 

[Aetosion]

Yeah, as TC myself as well, I find alot of problems with PvP as it is today. Sure, we'll raid RA, Riften, Windhelm, etc. - why? We catch some of those guys outside their regions. Otherwise the majority of all conflict is centered around HGs, Graveyards, etc. No-PVP zones where the little kiddies can jump back inside.

Sadly, I missed all the good Zeal stuff. I left around when Thornhollow fell, didn't like the move to Rangpur. So I missed the Spire conflicts, all the FC stuff, the temporary map. All of that.

What I've gathered from stories and combat videos, is that on roads- everyone came out to fight and it was a struggle for ground, not a border hopping fest. There's still an ability to do that, if the whole map centered in one area. What's the difference though? The people.

Many players' mindsets nowadays is to hide in their little fortified cardboard boxes, instead of actually going out and having fun. They let the TC kill all their friends while sitting in their little regioned holes, instead of banding together and fighting back. That's the problem this time around. Everyone's boring and cowardly. I wonder if anyone could prove me wrong, actually live up to the name of hero.

Perhaps all the [Good] and [Neutral] towns should rename themselves to [Cowards].

 

[MajorasMask]

Yeah, as TC myself as well, I find alot of problems with PvP as it is today. Sure, we'll raid RA, Riften, Windhelm, etc. - why? We catch some of those guys outside their regions. Otherwise the majority of all conflict is centered around HGs, Graveyards, etc. No-PVP zones where the little kiddies can jump back inside.

Sadly, I missed all the good Zeal stuff. I left around when Thornhollow fell, didn't like the move to Rangpur. So I missed the Spire conflicts, all the FC stuff, the temporary map. All of that.

What I've gathered from stories and combat videos, is that on roads- everyone came out to fight and it was a struggle for ground, not a border hopping fest. There's still an ability to do that, if the whole map centered in one area. What's the difference though? The people.

Many players' mindsets nowadays is to hide in their little fortified cardboard boxes, instead of actually going out and having fun. They let the TC kill all their friends while sitting in their little regioned holes, instead of banding together and fighting back. That's the problem this time around. Everyone's boring and cowardly. I wonder if anyone could prove me wrong, actually live up to the name of hero.

Perhaps all the [Good] and [Neutral] towns should rename themselves to [Cowards].

- People border hopped in Zeal. They did it all the time. People did it in both Sanctum and Zeal. Mainly in Zeal whereas people used fireball, ect. Why? Well, they are casters. LONG RANGE. Do you expect them to hit you close up? Errrm, no.

- ''Having fun'' - This is what makes me annoyed. You say PvP is ''fun'', when, how can it be for low leveled players that get killed all the time? To be honest, not everyone finds PvP fun. Infact, many stay away from it; which is WHY they have walls, to protect themselves. Some actually like to build, to have fun in other ways. Do you think that a band of 10 unspecced noobs could take out a group of 4/5 specced people? Errrm, no. Sorry, that'll never work.

- [Neutral] towns are those that want to stay away from PvP conflict, most of the time. These towns are the ones that make walls, defences, ect. As for ''Cowards'', would you HONESTLY allow legit ways into your town? By what most ''PvPers wanting more PvP'' say, you want towns to open up EVERYTHING so that YOU are the ones to get the loot; to open up every chest, door, wall, ect. This idea will never work; it is unfair to those that don't want to PvP. You may aswell get rid of regions. Don't bullshit saying ''Oh the town we are attacking can defend'' - when just about any town would be defenceless if they were being raided and had no members online?

 

[Kwong050]

What we need is an objective like for say, a flag or a certain specified are

 

[iHazBryn]

- People border hopped in Zeal. They did it all the time. People did it in both Sanctum and Zeal. Mainly in Zeal whereas people used fireball, ect. Why? Well, they are casters. LONG RANGE. Do you expect them to hit you close up? Errrm, no.

- ''Having fun'' - This is what makes me annoyed. You say PvP is ''fun'', when, how can it be for low leveled players that get killed all the time? To be honest, not everyone finds PvP fun. Infact, many stay away from it; which is WHY they have walls, to protect themselves. Some actually like to build, to have fun in other ways. Do you think that a band of 10 unspecced noobs could take out a group of 4/5 specced people? Errrm, no. Sorry, that'll never work.

- [Neutral] towns are those that want to stay away from PvP conflict, most of the time. These towns are the ones that make walls, defences, ect. As for ''Cowards'', would you HONESTLY allow legit ways into your town? By what most ''PvPers wanting more PvP'' say, you want towns to open up EVERYTHING so that YOU are the ones to get the loot; to open up every chest, door, wall, ect. This idea will never work; it is unfair to those that don't want to PvP. You may aswell get rid of regions. Don't bullshit saying ''Oh the town we are attacking can defend'' - when just about any town would be defenceless if they were being raided and had no members online?

We are coming from the side of people who like pvp and you are coming from the side that wants to build on thier plot in a shoebox.

I just want more creative nice looking towns like D101, Newerth, Shin kyoto, Orion, and every other nice looking town. Cobble shoe boxes on big flat open plains look like shit and completely take away from the Herocraft experience.

I am not just a PVPer, I'm a builder too. I was one of the original 5-6 members of Ironpass. We built that place from the ground up. Sure it wasn't the prettiest, but at one point I would like to think it was the biggest force on the server.
We built it without regions, we built with waves of people coming to attack us from D101 and from all across the map. WE fought them off and continued building until we got first town, then city, then capital.

These were the best days of Herocraft. Mixing Hardcore survival with a mix of pvp and in the end coming out with a amazing project done, that is what Herocraft is about.

Now the Tree Creeper's big project is to be the largest PVP force on the server. The only reason that you say that we cant have ways into towns is because some people "Don't want to pvp". Pvp is a very big part of this server. Look at the hero's plugin. Its centred around pvp. If your not speced by now, that is your own fault, and if you cant defend your town, then get speced.

Honestly as Aetosion said, the TC could be taken down very easily. The server just needs to stop hiding in their no pvp zones and band together.

Do you remember Shiroku last map. They raped everyone. The server got pissed and everyone went there and metephoricly burned the place to the ground. I went on that raid and fought next to some people that I hated, people that had recently killed me or I had recently killed, but we fought together none the less.

And Shiroku feel to pieces. But I guess that's the difference from Herocraft then and Herocraft now. This server lost everyone ballsy enough to rise to a challenge.

Come on Herocraft show me that you still have balls. Level up your unspeced warrior class and band together to rape our shit.