Suggestion If I Could Redesign Paladin...

[PewPewPewLasers]

Here is how I would do it.

@Eldrylars I stole your format with some modifications, just thought I should thank you for making it.



Keep in mind when reading this that if a number is listed, it is in no way the final version of the skill. Everything is a base idea that would need to be tweaked. I will not be adding warmups, cooldowns, and mana/stamina costs for the suggested skills because that would be sorted out later. The ideas are what is key.

Basic Information:
Type: Warrior
Focus: Tank Support
Base Equip Weight: 50
Weapon: Iron Door
Base Damage: 29
Max Damage: 50

Base Health: 725
Health Per Lvl: 2
Max Health: 1150 (with no attribute enhancing skills)

Base Stamina: 1000

Base Mana: 350
Mana Per Lvl:2
Max Mana: 650

Starting Attributes:
Strength: 2
Constitution: 5
Endurance: 2
Agility: -3
Intellect: 2
Wisdom: 2
Charisma: 0

Strengths:
Strongly wanted for large scale fights, high tankyness and good peeling.
Weaknesses:
Immobile, low damage, requires good awareness

Skills:

A note first: NONE OF THE SKILLS STACK. HAVING MULTIPLE PALADINS IN ONE PARTY WILL NOT INCREASE THE AFFECTS OF THE BUFFS

Level 1
Protector
The damage you deal with your weapon is equal to 4% of your maximum health. The damage caps at 50. Additionally, your magic resist is increased by 5%
The idea behind this one is to prevent paladins from building more strength than tankyness. Now, if you build lots of strength, you are just wasting your attribute points. Your key attributes should be Constitution, Endurance, then Wisdom and intellect for the mana.

Level: 5
Chasten
You smite your target for 40 magic damage,(+1 per point of intellect) and increases damage party members do to the target by 5(+1% for every 5 int)% for 7 seconds. (does not affect you).
While I like the idea of selfless paladins, it needs some damage. This gives the paladin some damage but also helps out allies when doing so.

Level: 12
Bulwark
You place a holy ward around a targeted ally, for the next 5 seconds they receive 25%(+1% for every 1.25 endurance) less damage and ignite the enemies who hit them, dealing an instant 15 magic damage and knocking back slightly. (Cannot be used on yourself)
Something I am noticing currently is the stacking of stuns to instagib someone. This is a counter to that and to provide tactical play to enemies (perhaps baiting the skill, as I assume this would have a long cooldown).


Level: 19
RighteousInfluence
All party members within 6(+1 block for every 3 wisdom) blocks deal 10% more damage (does not affect you) for the next 8 seconds.
This is my twist on might/warsong. I have always wanted it to be an increase on flat damage, not only melee. This increases the damage allies do but only for a small period of time.

Level: 25
Pray:
You heal yourself or an ally for 110 health (+2.5 per wisdom point)
Gotta have some sustain

Level: 28
Reckoning
All enemies within 8 blocks are pulled to you and slowed by 25%(+1% per point of intellect) for the next 3 seconds.
This skill can be using for peeling or locking people down.

Level 35
Layhands
An ally within 10 blocks is instantly restored to full hp. Use of this on yourself cuts the heal by 50%
This skill is just classic layhands but a large self heal nerf to encourage using it on your teammates as opposed to yourself.

Level: 42
ShieldBash
You slam your shield into all targets in a cone in front of you, dealing 65(+0.25 endurance and con) damage and knocking them all back 6 blocks.
This skill helps with peeling for squishies and keeping heavy damage classes off of them.

Level: 49
DivineAura
For the next 12 seconds, allies are restored 3% of their maximum health every 3 seconds, and all enemies have their magic resist reduced by 5% if they are within 8 blocks. (You are not healed by this)
This skill grants the paladin more utility in a fight and encourages getting right in the middle of everything

Level: 60
Revive:
At the cost of a rose and 15% of your maximum health, you bring an ally back from the dead, giving them a +5 to all attributes for 25 seconds.
This skill has a higher cost than the current revive to have a higher reward for getting it off during a fight.

Level: 65
ConsecratedSoil
You place a flag at desired location, inspiring allies and striking fear into enemies. Allies are granted speed II for 5 seconds (+1 second for every 3 points of agility), while enemies receive slowness II for 6 seconds. Enemies take 5% more damage when within 15 blocks of the flag. The flag lasts for 10 seconds.
I see this skill working kind of like the current zo skill tempest, mixed with a "totem". In a 15x15 square around the flag, yellow fireworks shoot up around the edges every two seconds to indicate the borders of the flag. This skill again requires the Paladin to get right in the middle of things and help out their team, whether it be keeping enemies off allies or keep enemies close to allies.

I would like to say that I do not in any way shape or form expect these changes to be added. I had some ideas and thought I would lay them out in a public scenario for some feedback. Like the other (4?) reworks I made, this one will most likely disappear with those ones. However, I don't care. I do these to voice my feedback on a class and to see what people think the class needs.

Thanks,
-Pew

 

[Ahrall]

I actually really like this, and I don't usually like the custom classes that people come up with.
It has a clear cut and well defined role an the tools to make it happen. Yet it's support skills are not as simple as +10 health meaning that you would have to react to a situation I be effective
+10 cool points for Mr Pew

 

[devotedworker]

Here is how I would do it.

@Eldrylars I stole your format with some modifications, just thought I should thank you for making it.



Keep in mind when reading this that if a number is listed, it is in no way the final version of the skill. Everything is a base idea that would need to be tweaked. I will not be adding warmups, cooldowns, and mana/stamina costs for the suggested skills because that would be sorted out later. The ideas are what is key.

Basic Information:
Type: Warrior
Focus: Tank Support
Base Equip Weight: 50
Weapon: Iron Door
Base Damage: 29
Max Damage: 50

Base Health: 725
Health Per Lvl: 2
Max Health: 1150 (with no attribute enhancing skills)

Base Stamina: 1000

Base Mana: 350
Mana Per Lvl:2
Max Mana: 650

Starting Attributes:
Strength: 2
Constitution: 5
Endurance: 2
Agility: -3
Intellect: 2
Wisdom: 2
Charisma: 0

Strengths:
Strongly wanted for large scale fights, high tankyness and good peeling.
Weaknesses:
Immobile, low damage, requires good awareness

Skills:

A note first: NONE OF THE SKILLS STACK. HAVING MULTIPLE PALADINS IN ONE PARTY WILL NOT INCREASE THE AFFECTS OF THE BUFFS

Level 1
Protector
The damage you deal with your weapon is equal to 4% of your maximum health. The damage caps at 50. Additionally, your magic resist is increased by 5%
The idea behind this one is to prevent paladins from building more strength than tankyness. Now, if you build lots of strength, you are just wasting your attribute points. Your key attributes should be Constitution, Endurance, then Wisdom and intellect for the mana.

Level: 5
Chasten
You smite your target for 80 magic damage, (damage is always 80) and increases damage party members do to the target by 10% for 7 seconds. (does not affect you).
While I like the idea of selfless paladins, it needs some damage. This gives the paladin some damage but also helps out allies when doing so.

Level: 12
Bulwark
You place a holy ward around a targeted ally, for the next 5 seconds they receive 50% less damage and ignite the enemies who hit them, dealing an instant 15 magic damage and knocking back slightly. (Cannot be used on yourself)
Something I am noticing currently is the stacking of stuns to instagib someone. This is a counter to that and to provide tactical play to enemies (perhaps baiting the skill, as I assume this would have a long cooldown).


Level: 19
RighteousInfluence
All party members within 12 blocks deal 10% more damage (does not affect you) for the next 8 seconds.
This is my twist on might/warsong. I have always wanted it to be an increase on flat damage, not only melee. This increases the damage allies do but only for a small period of time.

Level: 25
Pray:
You heal yourself or an ally for 150 health.
Gotta have some sustain

Level: 28
Reckoning
All enemies within 8 blocks are pulled to you and slowed by 40% for the next 3 seconds.
This skill can be using for peeling or locking people down.

Level 35
Layhands
An ally within 10 blocks is instantly restored to full hp. Use of this on yourself cuts the heal by 50%
This skill is just classic layhands but a large self heal nerf to encourage using it on your teammates as opposed to yourself.

Level: 42
ShieldBash
You slam your shield into all targets in a cone in front of you, dealing 100 damage and knocking them all back 6 blocks.
This skill helps with peeling for squishies and keeping heavy damage classes off of them.

Level: 49
DivineAura
For the next 12 seconds, allies are restored 3% of their maximum health every 3 seconds, and all enemies have their magic resist reduced by 5% if they are within 8 blocks. (You are not healed by this)
This skill grants the paladin more utility in a fight and encourages getting right in the middle of everything

Level: 60
Revive:
At the cost of a rose and 15% of your maximum health, you bring an ally back from the dead, giving them a +5 to all attributes for 25 seconds.
This skill has a higher cost than the current revive to have a higher reward for getting it off during a fight.

Level: 65
ConsecratedSoil
You place a flag at desired location, inspiring allies and striking fear into enemies. Allies are granted speed II for 8 seconds, while enemies receive slowness II for 6 seconds. Enemies take 5% more damage when within 15 blocks of the flag. The flag lasts for 10 seconds.
I see this skill working kind of like the current zo skill tempest, mixed with a "totem". In a 15x15 square around the flag, yellow fireworks shoot up around the edges every two seconds to indicate the borders of the flag. This skill again requires the Paladin to get right in the middle of things and help out their team, whether it be keeping enemies off allies or keep enemies close to allies.

I would like to say that I do not in any way shape or form expect these changes to be added. I had some ideas and thought I would lay them out in a public scenario for some feedback. Like the other (4?) reworks I made, this one will most likely disappear with those ones. However, I don't care. I do these to voice my feedback on a class and to see what people think the class needs.

Thanks,
-Pew

If this doens't go Pally, it might make a good other class!

 

[Cypher123]

chasten - should have 40 damage at most if it increases damage against that target by 10%

protector - this scales so horribly, why would anyone max health to gain 4 damage?
you get 1150 at max with your setup and it would take 1250 to get to 50 damage. Also why give paladin 232 more max health????

shield bash shouldn't do 100 damage, forcepush does around 80 if decently specced into int and that's one person, lower this damage to 10-20 at most if its an aoe or have a 2 second cast time at least.

There is also one to many skills that have % increases in damage you've made. You have 5% magic reduction, 5% damage increase, 10% damage increase, and another 10% increase. Remove all these % increases and I suggest coming up with something different. % increases always spur a one shot with certain ability combinations.

Also why increase their weapon damage to 50? They already hit as hard as most melee focus'd dps why increase it? I suggest making their damage more close to cleric, I'd say 40 it's more than cleric and mages but not at the place where all melee dps are at (50-60) since paladin is extremely tanky and supporty don't allow them to have enough dps to solo any class, with 40 damage I think this puts them in the right place so they can't 1v1 classes so easily. You have to look at other classes before you make suggestions on one, look at what that class does, what its damage and health and armor values are then build around those values.

I do like the fact that their stun and horse are removed though, so props to that, those skills make no sense to me.

Overall I like the peeling abilities you gave them, since that's what I feel a tanky class is supposed to do. Make them more utility and make their damage not noticeable.

 

[JupiterRome]

Ivthink it might still have a little to much damage tbh, I also think an hp buff was not needed

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

chasten - should have 40 damage at most if it increases damage against that target by 10%

protector - this scales so horribly, why would anyone max health to gain 4 damage?
you get 1150 at max with your setup and it would take 1250 to get to 50 damage. Also why give paladin 232 more max health????

shield bash shouldn't do 100 damage, forcepush does around 80 if decently specced into int and that's one person, lower this damage to 10-20 at most if its an aoe or have a 2 second cast time at least.

There is also one to many skills that have % increases in damage you've made. You have 5% magic reduction, 5% damage increase, 10% damage increase, and another 10% increase. Remove all these % increases and I suggest coming up with something different. % increases always spur a one shot with certain ability combinations.

Also why increase their weapon damage to 50? They already hit as hard as most melee focus'd dps why increase it? I suggest making their damage more close to cleric, I'd say 40 it's more than cleric and mages but not at the place where all melee dps are at (50-60) since paladin is extremely tanky and supporty don't allow them to have enough dps to solo any class, with 40 damage I think this puts them in the right place so they can't 1v1 classes so easily. You have to look at other classes before you make suggestions on one, look at what that class does, what its damage and health and armor values are then build around those values.

I do like the fact that their stun and horse are removed though, so props to that, those skills make no sense to me.

Overall I like the peeling abilities you gave them, since that's what I feel a tanky class is supposed to do. Make them more utility and make their damage not noticeable.

Thanks for the feedback. The numbers listed there are basically what came to the top of my head when creating this rework. I know for sure that these would not be accurate if this was to actually be implimented. The reason here I listed 50 is because most paladins are doing around 60 damage with an iron sword. The shield now replaces the sword, and you need to take into account that armour is a thing.

Thanks for responding for those who did.

 

[pure_autism]

I think using a sword should be a weapon, too. The shield is a defensive item, not an offensive one.

It could only do 5 more than a shield, it doesn't really matter to me. My main reason for saying this is that knockback swords are a must have for Paladins that focus on peeling for allies.

Other than that, I like the ideas you've made for a Paladin rework.

 

[Cypher123]

Thanks for the feedback. The numbers listed there are basically what came to the top of my head when creating this rework. I know for sure that these would not be accurate if this was to actually be implimented. The reason here I listed 50 is because most paladins are doing around 60 damage with an iron sword. The shield now replaces the sword, and you need to take into account that armour is a thing.

Thanks for responding for those who did.

Yea I liked most of the ideas for skills and such. It's just on the wiki they do 47 base damage at lvl 65 with a diamond sword without attributes, and that feels to high for a class that is basically pure survivability, especially since as you stated you can get it to 60 with attributes. So I feel lowering it to 40 base at lvl 65 would at least make up for some paladins going full offensive, and you should probably have most of your abilities scaling off of int/wisdom so they can't get away with going pure damage without being punished by losing survivability.

This is basically why I stopped playing disciple, since paladins do more melee damage than me and are tankier and have better heals and better mobility and more health......

 

[Delfofthebla]

I like it, but the lack of attribute scaling for a lot of the skills makes me question why anyone would do anything other than stack con / end. That and, well, you all know how I feel about fire ticks...

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

I like it, but the lack of attribute scaling for a lot of the skills makes me question why anyone would do anything other than stack con / end. That and, well, you all know how I feel about fire ticks...

I can add in some better scaling, but the reason I have it how it is now is because I hate the fact that the most used paladin attribute is strength

 

[Eldrylars]

I can add in some better scaling, but the reason I have it how it is now is because I hate the fact that the most used paladin attribute is strength

Gotta go MAD Pew, go MAD!

MAD = Multiple Attribute Distribution = Built across 4 different attributes to allow for different designs!

 

[Cypher123]

I can add in some better scaling, but the reason I have it how it is now is because I hate the fact that the most used paladin attribute is strength

Just add wisdom and int scaling as well with con/end since most of the abilities are buffs/spells/heals. There's no need for str scaling really. If you were to add str scaling only add it to one ability.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

Added some scaling

 

[Delfofthebla]

I can add in some better scaling, but the reason I have it how it is now is because I hate the fact that the most used paladin attribute is strength

The trick with attributes is not to remove scaling from certain skills, but to make it harmful to spec "wrongly".

Taking the current paladin for example.

Let's say we have a max lvl Paladin (60? 65? Dunno what it is right now)

Let's also say that he put every single god damn point of his into strength. Paladin Strong. Paladin Kill.

HolyAura should suck balls.
Layhands should require practically melee range to be used on allies.
Absolution should barely even be worth using.
Reckoning slow (or max range) should be abysmal.
DivineStun should be a mediocre to average duration.
HolySteed should be removed from the game.

Oh yea that last one isn't attribute based. Damn.

Of course if that's all true and it's still more beneficial to put points in strength, then it's pretty clear that the strength attribute is scaling too well. I'd like for Paladins to be able to do some damage (maybe not as much as a caster / rogue), but we shouldn't prevent this from happening. The goal is to make it less...desirable than the alternatives.