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[Healing] Warm-Ups

MeganPerk

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
While I don't like the system, I might as well make some suggestions to make it more bearable.

Targetting
Allow the warm-up message ([name] begins to use [spell]) to display upon whom it is being cast - i.e. [player] begins to use [spell] on [target].
-This will allow players to know if they in fact are healing the correct target and cancel the horrid warm-up time if its the wrong target instead of having to wait to be surprised and angry to find out it was the wrong target.

Death mid warm-up
If the healer's target dies while the spell is still warming up, it would be nice to not let the extra time go to waste and either switch the target to default to the caster, or stop the spell and refresh the cooldown on the spell that was cast.
-The healer already suffered the loss of their companion to death, and there is no need to punish them further with the loss of mana from the spell being cast on nobody and further needing to wait for the duration of the cooldown on the spell that was cast on nobody.

Emergency heals/dispells
There should be some emergency heals that cost reagants, but are instant and do not have the warm-up times. The same should go for spells with dispells on them, such as chakra. If not make chakra fully instant, then at least make chakra cast 2 spells - When chakra is cast, it instantly costs mana and instantly dispells, but then warms up to cast the heal. If interrupted, the player is not refunded the mana for the spell and does not receive the heal - thus making chakra a VERY expensive dispell with no heal.
-If other classes like dragoon, ninja, paladin, etc. have instant saving throw spells, why shouldnt a healer be allowed to have some? Also what is the point of having dispells with high cooldowns and rampup times when they cast after the undesired spell you want dispelled has already finished its course?

Warm-up Delays
Make using the right and left mouse button add a half a second to the casting time instead of cancelling it completely.
-Nobody likes sitting there and being beat on and unable to fight back, but I see that it is intended for healers to not be able to heal freely (which i dont understand since dps can attack freely and casters can cast freely) so instead of making combat almost unbearable, why not make actions costly instead of traumatic by applying longer cast durations instead of downright loss of the cast?

Shorter warm ups
The casting durations seem longer than they should be and could use some reducing.
-I would say the average fight lasts about 6-10 seconds. The skill pray with the current warm-up system has a cooldown of 9 seconds (im guessing 3 second warm-up + 6 second cooldown?). If a healer is only able to pump out 1 heal every 9 seconds and fighting normally lasts for only 10, that heal had better be darn worth it.

-or-

Dual Casting
Allow for different spells to be cast simultaneously on their seperate warm-up timers.
Example:
~Kainzo begins casting pray on Megan- 3 second cast
~Kainzo begins casting bandage on dils1- 2 second cast
~Kainzo casts bandage on dils1
~Kainzo casts pray on Megan

-Casting one spell on one target and sitting there is not fun. It makes group healing boring and it makes healing at all boring. This allows for healers to have a more involved feel and it also allows them to actually be group healers. Fighters have to make on-the-go decisions and keep track of their cooldowns, as well as have the ability to be able to cast combo skills, so.. why can't healers? I think the multi-casting system would allow for healers to feel like they are accomplishing something and make the healer class fun and worth the wait for their heals.

This also makes silencing spells on a healer very effective as it cuts off more than one spell and ruins their combo.
 

Diffuse

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
My opinions on these:

Targetting - Yes, this should be obvious

Death mid warmup - A healer should not be punished for not doing his/her job? I say this shouldn't happen.

Emergency heals/dispels - 1 or 2 "oh shit" buttons would be nice. An "oh shit" heal on a long cooldown and instant dispels would be nice.

Warmup Delays - I agree, make it costly to fight back but at least give the option.

Shorter warmups - Idk, I haven't tested them

Dual casting - I'd say make it cost a little additional mana to do this.
 

Malphugus

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Location
New Zealand
Gotta chime in and say that the warm-ups are one of my least favourite things in HC. They just make healing more difficult and frustrating.
If warm-ups were added to damaging spells, e.g. fireball, the outcry would be deafening.
My suggestion is just to convert them to longer cool downs.

[edit] from my testing the annoying part is that the target of the spell seems to be chosen at the end of the warm up and, most often the person you are trying to heal moves around before the warm up completes and you end up casting the heal on your self. Can the target be selected as soon as you cast the spell? and the spell target that person once the warm up has completed.
 

malmenca

Diamond
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Dual Casting
Allow for different spells to be cast simultaneously on their seperate warm-up timers.
Example:
~Kainzo begins casting pray on Megan- 3 second cast
~Kainzo begins casting bandage on dils1- 2 second cast
~Kainzo casts bandage on dils1
~Kainzo casts pray on Megan

I can get down with everything you've said aside from this^^^ it just doesn't really make sense. I think each of these suggestions should be implemented and the idea that it alerts you as to whom your healing would be a valuable tool to use for both parties; attacker and defender.
 

Sleaker

Retired Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
The whole point of having warmups is to prevent multi-casting, or doing other actions. So this idea kind of goes against the whole warmup/delay idea. We could adjust the delayed and such and save the initial target to prevent those issues. but at the beginning, you either use a skill and wait for it to finish, or you attack players. not both.
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
I believe warmups can be used in a skill-based scenario favorably. We just havent found the sweet spot yet. Group heals are instant - and are the natural 'oh shit' buttons for healers.

I think if we lower some of the warmups a second or two and increase the healing effectiveness - it would be more promising. The system wasnt built around warmups being a 'casting time' persay and there are things we can do to make it more appealing to heal.

I am all ears - but I do know that our current system in the Zeal era - was not balanced with healing - a natural lessening is inevitable.
 

KrunknMunky

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
May 4, 2011
Location
SCOTLAND!!!!!!!:D
One possibility could be to make heals heal in 'ticks', during which you couldn't attack people. This would make it feel a little more realistic to me. LMK what you think?
 

malmenca

Diamond
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Group heals are instant - and are the natural 'oh shit' buttons for healers.

Isn't this a bit counter intuitive seeing as the AE/group heals are pretty weak. Maybe not counter intuitive but just a not beneficial "Oh shit" button. Back when jwplayer was on playing the healer classes many of the skill that were group heals were pretty weak, as was the case when Dmil23 was a monk. It seemed redundant to use them. Maybe if they gained a bit more "ooomphh" It would make sense, and maybe the heal values have been updated a bit but from my understanding it wouldnt be a lifesaver using an AE heal
 

Texteo

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Targetting - No and what here should be done is that you can only heal party members. By doing so you cant heal enemies in combat unless they are in your party. It would also only heal you if you arent in one so it won't heal your opponents.
Death mid warmup - Lol what? If you enter the battlefield to only heal or fight nevertheless you ENTERED the battlefield therefore you should be punished xD. But what kain should do is allow the skill '' Taunt'' (not affecting party member) change everyone's target sistem towards that person thus giving you or anyone else a chance to escape.

Emergency heals/dispels - you are a monk/disciple .... you have 3 healing spells + groupheal as insta . I think this speaks all of it.

Warmup Delays - Every class now has warm-up delays. Im not a fond of them aswell but making bandage instant heal or pray? Can you bandage a person or say a prayer in less than a second? .... Okay I will give you some time on that.

Shorter warmups - Nope

Dual casting - Okay let me ask you this. Can you hold your hands clapped and pray while bandaging a person or chanting at the same time xD I would like to see a video of that
@Megan
@Kainzo
The Diffusiest
 

EvilThor

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Location
Internett
Targetting - No and what here should be done is that you can only heal party members. By doing so you cant heal enemies in combat unless they are in your party. It would also only heal you if you arent in one so it won't heal your opponents.
Death mid warmup - Lol what? If you enter the battlefield to only heal or fight nevertheless you ENTERED the battlefield therefore you should be punished xD. But what kain should do is allow the skill '' Taunt'' (not affecting party member) change everyone's target sistem towards that person thus giving you or anyone else a chance to escape.
Emergency heals/dispels - you are a monk/disciple .... you have 3 healing spells + groupheal as insta . I think this speaks all of it.
Warmup Delays - Every class now has warm-up delays. Im not a fond of them aswell but making bandage instant heal or pray? Can you bandage a person or say a prayer in less than a second? .... Okay I will give you some time on that.
Shorter warmups - Nope
Dual casting - Okay let me ask you this. Can you hold your hands clapped and pray while bandaging a person or chanting at the same time xD I would like to see a video of that
@Megan
@Kainzo

The Diffusiest
Have you tried to play as a healer, it is damn hard when you can do not much harm,
You can't do harm while healing you or others,
And you can only heal once every 9th second as magen said.
 

Texteo

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Have you tried to play as a healer, it is damn hard when you can do not much harm,
You can't do harm while healing you or others,
And you can only heal once every 9th second as magen said.

The name says it all. You are a healer . You arent supposed to do damage also she is a frigin disciple!!!!!!! She is most of support spell user not fighter and please do check my next suggestion because you will see what else this class has!!!
 

EvilThor

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Location
Internett
I was healer on Zeal map, but I am going for ranger on dragon cause it would be immpossible to go on your own.:p
And I would be nice to survive two zombies at once, even if you are a healer
 

Malphugus

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Location
New Zealand
Healing does need to be fun though or you won't see anyone being one . . .
I've not seriously considered being a healer in HC (healed mostly in WoW and need a change) but I tried it out on the Test server and found the warm-up mechanic awkward and frustrating.
My only suggestion for improvement was to make choosing the target instantaneous, even if the heal only actually happens at the end of the warm-up
I'll comment no more, since I'm no longer playing a healer on the Test server . . .
 

c12095

Holy Shit!
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Honestly, I tried a paladin on the test server, and even trying to use our Pray, which I realize is not exactly the best example of a healer, I had a heck of a time trying to keep target during a fight to help my friends stay alive a little bit longer. If they were to drop the warm-up timer and just suffer a longer CD I think we would see a lot more healers on Herocraft's PvP front. I know of a few people who were set on doing healers in the update and have turned away due to the warm-up timer. If not drop the warm-up timer, maybe lower it slightly? Either way the timer has causes a lot of fuss on healers both current and those interested in trying later on.
 
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