Griefing As It Is Today.

[StealthPotato]

Seriously, I don't know about you guys, but I think lowering the PVP gain for killing crafters should be something to think about. Quiet frankly, all these assholes spawn camping are basically farming exp by killing us straight from the beds. Killing crafters SHOULDN'T wield such reward. because I swear to god, if I hear the famous "I'm only doing it for exp" excuse again, my head may explode. We have done NOTHING to piss these guys off, yet they feel it makes it OK for them to completely annihilate my townspeople every 3-5 hours? Not cool, assholes. I say once you kill someone once you get no PVP EXP for killing them again. Because I can't even run anymore! Fuckin greyp and shortyy both have /skill jump and i don't even have enough time to recall cuz they just sneak up and mug the shit out of me. My beds have been griefed multiple times, and these "warnings" don't do shit.

And i talked to greyp, besides his "EXP" excuse he kills us because "He has to walk through our town to attack Newerth" and that's complete bullshit, we aren't even in line with Newerth. All we do is run?! We have 5-6 rogues and that isnt even enough because we can't even hit them because their lag. Bring your bullshit somewhere else and attack a town of rogues and warriors, not a bunch of crafters. And another thing Why is Shikoru labeled as "Neutral". By FAR the most evil town on this server. It's like fucking blasphemy except the dragoons get the speed/fly hacks (skill jump) for killing more defenseless crafters, minus the ban.

greyp said this to me when i was pming him: "I won't kill you anymore because you are a crafter, neither will i kill any other crafters in your town"...... Next day greyp and shortyy wipe out my entire town... 100% crafters were on then. And since shortyy got the last hit on me, his claim to keeping his promise was "I didn't kill you, Shortyy did"

Fuckin BS imo. At least make yourself marked as Evil or kick them out of the town. Guard service my ass

So this is what Shikoru did in my absence before I left em (given my "house" is far from that pizza they call home. Glad I did. No wonder people were vowing to kill me. I'm happy with my slightly more honourable lone wolf stash looting.

This topic proves why I can not gain infamy. This is just tasteless in every form. Now crafters don't seem to be bad sports, just victims of exploitation. This is a loophole in the rules and these "PVPers" (no this is just cheating) know it.

 

[Doreagarde]

Also to the above mod who did the rollback "I DO NOT HAVE TIME, to research every single goddamned long ass story behind people's motivations." Sounds like a poor attitude to have, perhaps your job is better suited to somebody who does have time to take things case by case.

I stand by my colleague's statement. You and I are both players on this server. I mine for gold and fall in lava pits and run from attackers, just like you. My service here has earned me negative money, but myself and the rest of the staff do it because we love this server, and want everyone to have as much fun as we do. There is no part of our job description, however, that says we have to spend more time attending to petitions than we deem to be needful. We do not leave them undone, but the rules of the server are such that our job can be carried out as quickly and painlessly as possible, without rigorous investigations with culprits dragged into dimly lit rooms for interrogation, while ensuring that players are justly dealt with, the process of which I have described in a similar thread.

 

[Syphith]

Seriously, I don't know about you guys, but I think lowering the PVP gain for killing crafters should be something to think about...

I've gotta back up Greek on this one and not just because I'm one of his town's members or because I was one of those Crafters wiped out, but simply because he's right. I always took the impression when Crafter was being discussed before the new map, that it was intended to be the non-PvP class. But it's really just become the "easy target" for the PvP classes. There's nothing we can do to really avoid someone like GreyP or Shortty, when they sit in our town and kill us anytime we get near. The massive advantage of equipment doesn't help, but by far the worst is their obvious lag related ability to hit us from upwards of 20 feet away while we can't even seem to hit them even once no matter how close we are. (At least that's been my experience going up against GreyP or Shortty in particular.) We can't even run from someone like Shortty either as he just uses the Dragoon's Jump skill to close distance. It's hard enough as it is to tell how far away he actually is with the lag, but that just kills it. (It being me)

It gets to the point that since I can't do whatever it was I was trying to work on without dying and losing my items/exp, I might as well just log out. Now just to be clear, I think the Heroes plugin is a great addition and am generally massively impressed with what you guys have managed to do. I plan to level a combat class after finishing Smith and I've also enjoyed pretty much every other change made to Herocraft. Which is why I decided to donate recently, Kainzo and his team definitely deserve it, but when my best choice is to log out rather than play, I think something is wrong with the way things are.

Personally I'd love to see Crafters get some sort of defensive abilities, but I honestly can't think of one that doesn't seem cheesy. A friend and I joked about a "Fetal Position" skill for Crafters that makes us immobile/unable to attack, but immune to damage, which is the kind of thing that might work, but is obviously very cheesy. I honestly don't think it would be that bad if Crafters were simply immune to PvP altogether and also obviously couldn't cause PvP damage, taking the class out of the PvP equation altogether. Now I realize this isn't really desired, but if Crafters were ever intended to be a non-PvP class at all, I think it's a far better option than leaving Crafters as they are now, simply a target, an easy one at that.

 

[Xanipher]

Also to the above mod who did the rollback "I DO NOT HAVE TIME, to research every single goddamned long ass story behind people's motivations." Sounds like a poor attitude to have, perhaps your job is better suited to somebody who does have time to take things case by case.

1200 petitions since the map creation. Not to mention being the only widely available mod, besides petitions I also investigate hackers to keep this server legit for YOU.

And lets remember, people arent always online, I'm not waiting around all night to do a petition. I'm a good mod and everyone knows it. So thanks.

IKaosI:I personally thing that staff should be given some sort of coin payment- DHX bankers did, lol- for their services, and answering/closing petitions should get you some experience (300-500?) It would be motivation to do moderating duties, and be fair compensation for your time. Early on like this, it could also help to stimulate an enconomy; mods focus on work but want impressive homes, but they buy things from players to get them.
In the end, you could still get the stuff the regular players do (Fucked be the balance; you guys deserve an advantage, imo) so when you get time to play the game for a couple hours, you can actually do something other than spending it buying/mining redstone.
That's one of the things I've had issue with for a long time; mods suffer to help others with no compensation.

Teleporting for a PE should somehow give you a secondary 'mark' spell which would allow you to recall back to where you were in the first place, and this teleport back should be free. At the very least, you should be given this.

While I love money, I do this because I love the server, I don't need payment. I get a ton of satisfaction from doing it, but also a lot of shitty things said about me, like the first quote above. We now have a return function, so we don't need to use recall after a petition which is really cool, thanks to Kainzo. Thanks for the support kaos, appreciate it!

 

[babb1e]

Guard service my ass

Greek, if your truly worrying about us not living up to standards, your town is named after the GOD OF WAR, I've been expressing my want for not enforcing rules until the actual townships start. What I don't like however, is when I hear from you "oh we promise to leave you alone" and then five minutes later having word from five seperate people that we're getting attacked from 30+ people.

It's like a fucking reality tv show with you people, and I'm not talking about the good ones, its those fucking shitty ones with rich 40 year old cougars starting drama over hypocrisy and bullshit. welp, we're gonna build our town and we're gonna keep building. let griefers/raiders be warned, Nothing but time shall tear down our walls.

Well, that and griefers, but those guys suck.

 

[Doreagarde]

I believe one thing: You mods work your ass off to work with rules that are still subjective. I've heard many times what moderating/guide work does to your pocketbook and your levels.
You all are amazing, but you need more support than just a simple access to petition lists and a teleport to a player.

I personally thing that staff should be given some sort of coin payment- DHX bankers did, lol- for their services, and answering/closing petitions should get you some experience (300-500?) It would be motivation to do moderating duties, and be fair compensation for your time. Early on like this, it could also help to stimulate an enconomy; mods focus on work but want impressive homes, but they buy things from players to get them.
In the end, you could still get the stuff the regular players do (Fucked be the balance; you guys deserve an advantage, imo) so when you get time to play the game for a couple hours, you can actually do something other than spending it buying/mining redstone.
That's one of the things I've had issue with for a long time; mods suffer to help others with no compensation.

Teleporting for a PE should somehow give you a secondary 'mark' spell which would allow you to recall back to where you were in the first place, and this teleport back should be free. At the very least, you should be given this.

Motivation to do be a moderator has always been making the server as fun to play on as others as it is for myself. Doing the petitions isn't suffering, or a chore, it's a quest list! Herocraft has become helping others, and by extension, Minecraft has become that, which is why I can't imagine playing on another server or offline. I find time to mine and build between petitions, and with the return skill, I don't have to interrupt my work. This game is awesome, and it took me until I was accepted to this position to find out why.

 

[lucky644]

The game, regardless of what mods/plugins we implement, is broken fundamentally at it's most basic level. Minecraft was never intended to be played as we play it now. Unfortunately all we can do is try our best to make it work and people that complain/whine about every little thing really start to wear on the staff. Taking note that this doesn't include everyone, nor am I implying that your problems on the server are petty and not worth our time.

We're trying to keep everyone happy, remember that, but also remember that there is a lot you can do, as players, to make all of our lives easier.

When petitioning staff, take a step back and look at the situation you are reporting. Is it truly worth the time spent for a staff member to investigate? A couple small broken blocks here and there generally shouldn't be considered something to petition about. If you can fix something within a few minutes, you are saving us, the staff, 10 fold that time.

As far as balance issues, remember that the mod is still completely in development, tweaks and changes will continue to roll in and there are plenty of constructive ways to suggest things you believe would help improve it. Making a post in this forum for example, perhaps with a poll, link your friends and get it noticed. Taking a route in which you complain and ultimately irritate those people who want to help you is counter-productive.

And lastly, anyone who even suggests for a moment that any staff member is lethargic, uncaring or not doing their job to your standards is going to be seen rather negatively. Sadly, nobody who isn't on the staff doesn't know whats going on, or how much we have to deal with. There is rarely a moment where I'm not involved with Herocraft in some way, whether it be in game, on the forums or in IRC. And I can tell you without hesitation that every other staff member is just as busy and dedicated.

Respect the staff, as well as the other players and remember this is all a community effort, work together, constructively and we will all be better off for it.

 

[eisbaerBorealis]

To keep it short; moderators are doing an awesome job, and it sucks being a crafter or anyone trying to build a town.
and... now for the not-short part.
I do love every update and it's awesome to see new skills being added to all the different classes, but PLEASE. This server is SUFFERING due to lack of protection. There would be so much more architecture on the map if there were the proper protection, but the raiders are holding back the entire map. I've literally given up on my building project because the town I'm working for "isn't allowed to progress in any way until the leader pays protection money." I'm not even a part of the "town," but I've lost 25+ stacks of glass and 30+ stacks of sand. Building is not possible right now. People can level without their fancy skills, but please let this server progress by putting the regions/towns/etc. at a top priority.

 

[lucky644]

To keep it short; moderators are doing an awesome job, and it sucks being a crafter or anyone trying to build a town.
and... now for the not-short part.
I do love every update and it's awesome to see new skills being added to all the different classes, but PLEASE. This server is SUFFERING due to lack of protection. There would be so much more architecture on the map if there were the proper protection, but the raiders are holding back the entire map. I've literally given up on my building project because the town I'm working for "isn't allowed to progress in any way until the leader pays protection money." I'm not even a part of the "town," but I've lost 25+ stacks of glass and 30+ stacks of sand. Building is not possible right now. People can level without their fancy skills, but please let this server progress by putting the regions/towns/etc. at a top priority.

Problem is, the Township plugin not finished, we're waiting for it to finish being developed.

 

[eisbaerBorealis]

Respect the staff, as well as the other players and remember this is all a community effort, work together, constructively and we will all be better off for it.

That's something I'd like to ask the raiders. Do they consider themselves a part of the community? Are they trying to build up the server? Do they have noble intentions, stealing materials simply so that they can build their own base and add some awesome architecture to the map?

Or do they want to see the world burn.

EDIT: I had never heard that we were waiting on the Township plug-in to be updated by someone else.

 

[Doreagarde]

I had never heard that we were waiting on the Township plug-in to be updated by someone else.

Perhaps it is clearer to say that you and I are waiting for it to be developed. Kainzo and our coding staff are playing a major role in getting it online.

 

[eisbaerBorealis]

Ah. I misread lucky's post and thought that we were waiting on someone non-Herocraft working on it.
If that's not the case, then I stand by what I said before. Stop working on other stuff; we need the town plug-in before the server can really progress. I know that you're not ignoring the township plug-in, and I know that you're working hard on it. But it's obvious that you're also working on other things.
I'm sorry for sounding ungrateful. I don't believe that you guys are slacking off or anything. I'll sit down and shut up now...

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Greek, if your truly worrying about us not living up to standards, your town is named after the GOD OF WAR, I've been expressing my want for not enforcing rules until the actual townships start. What I don't like however, is when I hear from you "oh we promise to leave you alone" and then five minutes later having word from five seperate people that we're getting attacked from 30+ people.

WTF does our name have to do with our township status or expectations? We did go to war today, i had fun, i hope you did too

and before the raid I didn't do ANYTHING to piss you guys off except complain about how your pissing me off! I get what you're doing with "changing rules of the township once towns are here" I just thought it was unfair that you guys call yourself a neutral township

 

[RogueMind]

To

WTF does our name have to do with our township status or expectations? We did go to war today, i had fun, i hope you did too

and before the raid I didn't do ANYTHING to piss you guys off except complain about how your pissing me off! I get what you're doing with "changing rules of the township once towns are here" I just thought it was unfair that you guys call yourself a neutral township

To be fair, I find few towns are truely neutral even though 80% claim to be neutral.

I believe that township alignment needs a overhaul, or to be thrown out all together, because atm it means nothing.

Anyway I don't want to comment on the argumentative portion. I'm in too many as it is! haaha.

 

[Xanipher]

It is being overhauled. There is good, evil and traders.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Just to point out, we done our best to make it clear to most of our citizens, that killing for no reason won't be an option. But killing when provoked (ex: killing/raiding/etc.) completely acceptable. we may have started out killing a few. But we have been doing our best to stick with killing players from our KoS list and people who come here getting caught stealing.

 

[xexorian]

This topic is about Griefing As It Is Today -- Let's keep it ontopic for the rest of page 3 and on please.

For the record, Xanipher, I'm sorry you got the PE, Had I been online when those pussies were I'd have explained why I took back beds/chests/furnaces, -- furthermore, as you may recall, they only dug a hole out, not a lot of resources or any structure, it was just 2 empty rooms, under a beach, right next to our towns barracks.

The rollback I suffered caused me a lot of grief because it kept undoing changes I had made as a crafter to many buildings afterwords. Infact, I'm pretty sure all the changes to my towns barracks corner section was undone, although it's a tad difficult to walk 3600 blocks to go find out from where I was when I suffered the rollback.

To be fair, I'm not so much mad at the rollback, just the fact that it included fair work I did after that.

Secondly, I agree on the moderators and coders' doing a fine job. I'm simply saying the rules the mods and admins subject themselves to should have another look at. There's still a lot of problems inherent to adding hero's functionality and classes with skills to MineCraft. For example, even if you regioned a walled area off @ your random outpost in the wilds. A dragoon would simply leap over it. This would make you want to design the entire area differently. Infact, anyone could really build a dirt pillar and leap off that. it takes 26 units of falling to die with no armor, if I'm not mistaken. Everyone's outposts would consist of a box with a closed iron door. Very generic. But the only thing reasonable for ultimate protection from the same circumstances we're in, without regions.

IOW: region's won't protect us from my story. It will only make it so everyone's beds need to be in a townhall. Mayors need to consider larger town halls and lastly, everyone would have to flee inside, if they even had time to do so, because several people commented on how lag affects PVP and it's pretty bad as it is. Being 2 shot by a diamond sword from 20+ blocks away was commonplace in my experience, and still is. Adding movement features like jumping or leaping only worsens that.

It's cool. It's fine and dandy. But the best retaliation I can still think of after it's all said and done is just to simply allow towns to grief raider camps that are obvious camps and not settlements.

It just makes the most sense and seems like it should be the only line of defense we can put up for hours of working.
building.
mining. Just to get spawn camped 16 times - lose all our resources (whoever mentioned crafters keeping resources, is full of shit.) - and lose all of our EXP.

we get the ass end of the PVP stick for trying to do something entirely different as a playstyle.

Also that other guy who mentioned we ran at him, yeah, from my fucking bed, 5 feet in my room, to you. to get you out. like 6 times. Then you left. The first TWO times should've been enough. Infact, when you looked at my bed, you should've just broke it / kept it / or replaced it. And I'd not have had a problem with you.

Herocraft as it is now seems like it's only a server for flunky PVP and nothing else anymore. (simply due to griefing rules, which don't need being removed; just changed)

It's probably more of, heroclasses get 'admin' powers by permissions, and we don't allow griefing of any kind. except when raiders harrass you. That's fine. you have like a billion reasons to not play here if you're the creative type. and about a billion to play here if you just enjoy open mass murder and theft, with no objective to use said resources on anything constructive.

It's why PVP servers' don't last terribly long. Well, griefing is on most. But we don't allow it. Which is good, and bad. Bad because I can't mine diamond, wear full diamond armor and swords and try to defend myself on fair grounds as a crafter. Even then, I'm set on fire, fighting invisible opponents, and opponents that can flee or get to me faster than I can, and opponents that are completely invulnerable.

The least that can be done is allowing me to break their camps (not big buildings or huge shit, this is a reasonable size, like small tunnels raiders placed beds in and chests with our goods) and take my resources back, and if I grab someone elses they stole, oh well. I can't really say much about that, except split up what we take back with other crafter friends. Which I would do, but that becomes a loophole, so with every system there's no perfection. However that seems more perfect than the system we use now.

 

[xexorian]

edit: my point about resources was how am I to afford 250c to respec to defend myself and play by their rules?

Oh, let me kill a thousand thousand cows and get back to you on that.

75% of the herocraft forum users who read suggestions agreed with my posts!

<3

 

[xexorian]

Updated my avatar icon to reflect the horror of pvp griefing.

 

[Doreagarde]

Ah. I misread lucky's post and thought that we were waiting on someone non-Herocraft working on it.
If that's not the case, then I stand by what I said before. Stop working on other stuff; we need the town plug-in before the server can really progress. I know that you're not ignoring the township plug-in, and I know that you're working hard on it. But it's obvious that you're also working on other things.
I'm sorry for sounding ungrateful. I don't believe that you guys are slacking off or anything. I'll sit down and shut up now...

I know it's an important release, and that it can be frustrating waiting. Honestly, this whole issue will be almost totally behind us when Townships/Regions come out. Cities will be protected, and when people go out into the wilderness to take back what raiders have taken from them, the rules will have shifted in their favour (unregioned raiders' camps = ripe for the plucking). You're seeing lesser features tweaked and released while you wait however, and there's a reason for it, which I'll quote here from a previous post:

You raise an important point with what sometimes can seem like poor priorities concerning what gets fixing round here. The issue with Heroes getting what seems like all these fixes while other things fall by the wayside is twofold - visibility and accessibility. Heroes gets talked about a lot. It is, as you said, Kainzo's tinker-toy, and he and the coding staff are excited to have it. It's buggy, much like everything else, and there are a lot of people talking about "balance" and "leveling" and "paladins are OP". These problems are minor, absolutely! The thing is, these problems are - relatively - much easier to fix than all the permissions, lag, and regions problems we're having, almost to the point of being a pleasant diversion from more serious matters. Heroes fixes are very accessible to the admins, and so they get tweaked, which reinforces the behaviour of asking for tweaks, which increases Heroes visibility, and so on. It's a vicious cycle. Absolutely are there bigger things on Kainzo's plate. He's said recently that he loses sleep over the fact that there's so much lag while the player cap is still under 100. Us moderators are giving him all sorts of hell about releasing townships, regions, anything so that we can get the number of griefing-related petitions per week under 300. Fixes for these problems aren't as accessible to the admins and coders, and thus they don't get as much visibility, since there's never much more to say then "we're still working on it", which they are, all the time.

I know you're not trying to sound ungrateful, and we praise you for your patience. The next time that you log on to find your house broken into, a 2x1 hole in the wood-plank wall, chests broken and valuables missing, remember to tell yourself that "this, too, shall pass."

To

To be fair, I find few towns are truely neutral even though 80% claim to be neutral.

I believe that township alignment needs a overhaul, or to be thrown out all together, because atm it means nothing.

Anyway I don't want to comment on the argumentative portion. I'm in too many as it is! haaha.

Join us in a discussion about it over here! We can help this thread stay on topic that way.