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Suggestion EXP Wipe upon Ban

Rumblestikk

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
The Multiverse
Yes, but this is a video game and sometimes Herocraft community forgets that.
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Every game has punishments. This is a suggestion about worsening those punishments because they community seems to not care if they break the rules.

Its fairly simple.. Don't want this to effect you? Don't break the rules.
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
Its fairly simple.. Don't want this to effect you? Don't break the rules.

What part of,

"HEROCRAFT ONLINE TERMS OF SERVICE

While you are a member of the Herocraft Online Service, you must abide by the following rules.
-snip list of rules-
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU AGREE TO THESE RULES AND WILL ABIDE BY THEM."

Further yet,

" YOU AGREE TO READ CAREFULLY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE HEROCRAFT ONLINE RULES POSTED ON THE WEB SITE HERE[2]."

Even yet further,

" THESE RULES MAY BE CHANGED, AND NEW RULES MAY BE ADDED, AT ANY TIME. YOU AGREE TO CHECK THE HEROCRAFT ONLINE WEB SITE FROM TIME TO TIME TO REVIEW ANY RULE CHANGES THAT STAFF MAY HAVE MADE."

Did you not understand?
ps. not aimed at rumblestikk.
 

Predator2010

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
I will repost my thoughts:

1st ban / 1 day - nothing
2nd ban / 3 day - nothing
3rd ban / 1 week - 10 ALL SPEC level reduction.
4th ban / 2 weeks - 20 ALL SPEC level reduction. Loss of titles earned. Must remaster Path's.
5th ban / 1 month - 30 ALL *.* level reduction. Loss of titles earned. Must remaster Path's.


1st ban / 1 day - nothing
2nd ban / 3 day - 5 ALL SPEC level reduction.
3rd ban / 1 week - 10 ALL SPEC level reduction.
-----------------------------------For normal players, ^ this is their bracket-------------------------------------
4th ban / 2 weeks - 15 ALL SPEC level reduction. Loss of titles earned.
5th ban / 3 weeks - 20 ALL *.* level reduction. Loss of titles earned. Must remaster Path's.
6th ban / 4 weeks - 30 ALL *.* level reduction. Loss of titles earned. Must remaster Path's. Loss of assetts, loss of LWC's, loss of spawn-plots, forum-ban, irc-ban, ts3-ban. etc.
------------------------------For players Rumble described, ^ this is their bracket-------------------------------

I find Xexo's tier systems to be more enforcing,
people would be strongly deterred from rulebreaking with these stronger punishments.

But as for my own opinion i think FIVE BANS.... Is a lot of chances one person can have, If they've been banned twice they are more then likely going to continue, So i would revise the system but have a more severe punishment, rather then allowing 5 bans with level reduction.
 

kirinelf

A frightening Cactus!
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Too many posts here I agree with, so I'm just gonna post in here saying I agree with pretty much the whole dang system. Good call guys, finally someone steps up.

I like xexo's 5 step ban system the best. Normally, I'm honestly leery of anything that has a permaban more than 3 temp bans away. Typically on the forum RPs I've run, you get two temp bans (a week and a month respectively) then a perma ban. The more chances you have the more damage you can do before getting perma banned. That said, with the addition of an experience loss, it balances it out so 5 bans seem to be the best bet.

What part of,

"HEROCRAFT ONLINE TERMS OF SERVICE

While you are a member of the Herocraft Online Service, you must abide by the following rules.
-snip list of rules-
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU AGREE TO THESE RULES AND WILL ABIDE BY THEM."

Further yet,

" YOU AGREE TO READ CAREFULLY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE HEROCRAFT ONLINE RULES POSTED ON THE WEB SITE HERE[2]."

Even yet further,

" THESE RULES MAY BE CHANGED, AND NEW RULES MAY BE ADDED, AT ANY TIME. YOU AGREE TO CHECK THE HEROCRAFT ONLINE WEB SITE FROM TIME TO TIME TO REVIEW ANY RULE CHANGES THAT STAFF MAY HAVE MADE."

Did you not understand?
ps. not aimed at rumblestikk.
Haven't you figured out by now that no one ever reads the T&Cs/ToS's? And a large part don't really read the rules either; many people go by assumed knowledge or just keep asking in game. xD Or they skim the rules and that's it.
 

MajorasMask

Ungodly
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Location
Earth
Does anyone remember in Sanctum that, if you break only 3-4 blocks without replacing them, you'll get a weeks ban? Or sometimes even a months ban.

Hell, people back then got banned for being ACCUSED of hacking.
 

Danda

Dungeon Master Extremist
Staff member
Administrator
Guide
Wiki Team
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
  • B) They aren't afraid of the punishments dealt to them. They can easily go play League for 3 days, a week, maybe a month... and come back to everything... so what is there to loose?
Well on month + bans they'll likely lose their LWC

2. People can then get up to permanently banned, then wait a week or two then appeal and get back on with no repercussion.
Find me a perma ban where the player has come back in under a month. I personally cannot think of any and can only think of 1 or 2 examples of a month.
 

Rumblestikk

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
The Multiverse
Well on month + bans they'll likely lose their LWC.

You mean by it not being accessed for a month it auto un-LWCs? Thats easy to counteract, and a lot of LWCS have more then one person on them, as long as one of those people opens the LWC its fine.

EzMac2099 was able to keep my Warshard LWC up while I was gone.

Does anyone remember in Sanctum that, if you break only 3-4 blocks without replacing them, you'll get a weeks ban? Or sometimes even a months ban.

Hell, people back then got banned for being ACCUSED of hacking.

However in Herocraft now we have tools that help us find out about Griefing. Punishments are dealt depending on if it was Minor.. like 2-5 blocks, or Major like a entire city (xexorian lol)

Also if your banned, normally, the staff has sufficient evidence of what you have done and if they are not 100% sure if you deserve it you get a ban because the investigation is pending and then it is rather lifted or set into a 1 day, 3 day, 1 week ban.

This is not Sanctum. This is Bastion. Herocraft has progressed since then, it's time to talk about the here and now, not the past.
 

Techs_Rule

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I had another idea.

There should be 3 categories for bans. Permanent Ban, Ban with appeal, Temporary ban

Permanent ban is permanent. This goes for people who after amany bans and mutes you cant seem to get through to them. The should not have a second chance (by this time 6 or 7th) if they keep breaking the rules. After this point there no appealsat all..

Ban with appeal is you are banned but you have the appeal it after x amount of days. They have time to think of what they did and then have another chance if the admins think it is okay. If they dont appeal they are banned forever but never loose the appeal chance.

Temporary ban witll just go oth what rumble and xexorian have been saying where it should ramp up the more you screw up. This will be the 1 week or 3 month ban but no need to appeal.
 

Danda

Dungeon Master Extremist
Staff member
Administrator
Guide
Wiki Team
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Doesn't feel like it. Feels like as if every can appeal including when they have been banned a lot.
Just because they make an appeal doesn't mean they get unbanned. The majority of bans we hand out are timed suspensions and it is very rare that we resort to a perma ban.
 

Dsawemd

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Every game has punishments. This is a suggestion about worsening those punishments because they community seems to not care if they break the rules.

Its fairly simple.. Don't want this to effect you? Don't break the rules.

Here's an example: I was banned for griefing (I broke a block on a player built main-compass road back in Zeal) and 1x1 tower/water wilderness grief (I made "geysers" around my house). I can promise you that if I had gained any decent amount of levels prior to this 3 day ban and been wiped to level 1, I would likely have moved on and never looked back.

I am just not sure this is needed, what I really think would help more is known trolls and repeat offenders never be forgiven, rather than after a long period. That would stop the real issue, which is people with too little respect for authority and too much time on their hands breaking rules again and again.

Once again, I respect the intent, but these people will not consider leveling up again to be a game changer...
 

Rumblestikk

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
The Multiverse
Here's an example: I was banned for griefing (I broke a block on a player built main-compass road back in Zeal) and 1x1 tower/water wilderness grief (I made "geysers" around my house). I can promise you that if I had gained any decent amount of levels prior to this 3 day ban and been wiped to level 1, I would likely have moved on and never looked back.

I am just not sure this is needed, what I really think would help more is known trolls and repeat offenders never be forgiven, rather than after a long period. That would stop the real issue, which is people with too little respect for authority and too much time on their hands breaking rules again and again.

Once again, I respect the intent, but these people will not consider leveling up again to be a game changer...

Once again this is the same as Majorasmask's issue with this. We have better methods of detecting what is a "grief" and what isn't. Logs are helpful. A 3 day ban by my chart is No level reduction but by Xexos its only 5 levels. This is Bastion, Not Sanctum or Zeal, its time to stop living in the past and focus on the now.

5 Levels isn't much at the lower ends, so early on it wont hit you too hard, but as people level, and master.. like most of the repeat offenders now have by now, 5-20 levels is a LOT. Thats time you need to reinvest in leveling, and skills/HP/Mana you loose to contribute to PvP while you are weaker.

This would also put these people back into the world to look for Mobs for leveling and bring some (However not much) World PvP back.
 

Dsawemd

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
This is not going to stop rule breakers as much as you think.
Whether or not the net effect on the community is negative due to increased disincentives to return for the average player (one who does not play all day, every day) remains to be seen.
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
Once again this is the same as Majorasmask's issue with this. We have better methods of detecting what is a "grief" and what isn't. Logs are helpful. A 3 day ban by my chart is No level reduction but by Xexos its only 5 levels. This is Bastion, Not Sanctum or Zeal, its time to stop living in the past and focus on the now.

5 Levels isn't much at the lower ends, so early on it wont hit you too hard, but as people level, and master.. like most of the repeat offenders now have by now, 5-20 levels is a LOT. Thats time you need to reinvest in leveling, and skills/HP/Mana you loose to contribute to PvP while you are weaker.

This would also put these people back into the world to look for Mobs for leveling and bring some (However not much) World PvP back.

Further yet, my suggestion was intended for people who have already specced, until a point their bans exceed a set number, where they will get progressively more harsh. Such as re-mastering your path, before resuming your spec, and paying 500c, after wiping your money. Things like that.

Your example was invalid for the punishment because it was a simple grief and a short ban.

If anything, Danda could further revise the 6 ban example to be a punishment-level ban.

level 1-6 depending on how harshly you should be punished for what you did; and who you did it to. Such as a group of people or just one person. All factors taken into account it could go as far as a small grief here and there won't add up to much, but if it's continuous then the next ban is a level higher, and so on. If they don't take that seriously then skip a few more levels since they then have several less severe punishments and one say, level 4 punishment. Take it to a lvl 5, and 6, then permanent ban for repeat offenses.

There's no excuse in a setup like that to keep griefing peoples shit, at that point you're just trolling admins and playing stupid, making them look bad, and yourself.

That said, I don't agree with that entire example, and I feel it's too abusable, which is why I would like to see a linear ban system implemented, with brackets falling under each level depending on the offense.

Such as, pillar griefing/griefing someones house, just a few blocks, then replaced with cobble, would fall under level 1 ban. But if your first major offense was tearing down an entire town, then yeah, expect a 2-4 week long ban, and some effort on your part to get back to your original status in the game.

In the same breath, if you had a bunch of minor offenses, I would expect it to scale, yet I would also expect someone to be given a fair chance to replace the blocks they broke. If you came and griefed my wall, and I PE'd it. I would expect the admins to ask you if you were going to fix it. However, if say, several days ahd passed and you simply ignored the fact, I would expect a ban without questioning.

You should sear it into your mind, that this is a NO GRIEFING server. If you take someone elses things and break them, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for fixing it in a reasonable time. If your excuse is to logout and forget about it, then you have messed up. Before breaking into someones house through their wall and not replacing the objects you destroy, you should have asked yourself if you would have had time to fix it after. If you or a friend can't fix the damage in a reasonable time, then logout, and log back into the game when you have time to play. There is no VALID excuse for this unless you simply lost power, even then you should've been more careful, which is why the system I proposed scales up before you get a harsh ban. Finally, if you lost power, you have more important things to worry about than as Dsawemd mentioned, "A game".
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
I'll also add that you should take into account a few things, for example, if you break someones house, they should allow you to come fix it. If they don't let you come fix the damage, then you can't get banned for it because they are in the wrong.. at least, that is how I see it.
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
This is not going to stop rule breakers as much as you think.
Whether or not the net effect on the community is negative due to increased disincentives to return for the average player (one who does not play all day, every day) remains to be seen.

Why?

Also, new players would obviously get a slap on the wrist. So, I fail to see your second reasoning as well. Primarily, because it is mentioned that A) You should have read the rules. B) They will get it explained to them that the next ban will result in level loss for specced players. Etc. If that doesn't grab their attention then they are either
a) careless
b) stupid
 
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