Suggestion Dungeons PvP Change

[Dsawemd]

Historically, having to protect allies as they level (Swamp leveling) was a good incentive for towns and active alliances.

Suggestion: T3-4 are now on Conflict/Peace rotation, and T5-6 are PvP all the time.

This will allow noobs to safely enjoy Tiers 1 and 2, while giving the playerbase a reason to care about alliances again.

 

[Abyssal]

no pls dont do dis

 

[Trazil]

Historically, having to protect allies as they level (Swamp leveling) was a good incentive for towns and active alliances.

Suggestion: T3-4 are now on Conflict/Peace rotation, and T5-6 are PvP all the time.

This will allow noobs to safely enjoy Tiers 1 and 2, while giving the playerbase a reason to care about alliances again.

Can't agree more, I only go leveling during conflict because I hate it and want PVP.

 

[J2BH]

I would like this suggestion, but in a later time. T3-4 can't go on a conflict rotation, by the time of t3 new players don't even understand half the classes and will quite frankly get camped. HOWEVER keeping the current rotation on conflict and peace and then adding perminent pvp to the new T7 dungeons coming out doesn't sound like a bad idea.

 

[DJAlphaWolf]

The problem is...Dungeons have created somewhat of a rift in PVP that swamps did not have. Smart people don't go leveling during conflict and instead go screw around in ivory or go mining so they dont get ganked. That's not to say PVP in conflict areas doesn't happen. It just means some people have learned their lesson and know better than to go to Dark Palace or Redhands without being prepared to PVP on conflict time.

With swamps, you were in constant danger of being attacked so you had to join as large of a group as you could...to even hope to survive gank parties (at least thats what i remember myself doing). If not a large group, then at least a group that could survive a gank. That system created constant danger. Either the massive groups of mobs would hurt you or a PVP party would come out of nowhere and kill you. Depending on the location of the swamp, some of us were on constant watch either via tracks or simply looking out, to see if anyone was coming our way (we'd track the usual pvpers).

Now, you're pretty much safe when it comes to leveling. The dungeon system is a more organized way to level I guess ...but the way its set up right now isn't really helping the PVP community. We have arena and test server to perfect our PVP abilities but rarely do we have a chance to use those abilities.

Something definitely needs to be done to make the PVP system stronger. I'm sure you guys will figure it out though. I'm just here to state what I've observed.

Edit: Maybe add Ivory to the list of Conflict Zones. I know its already hard as it is to level there but it is a t5 dungeon and it tends to have the most players hiding in there. Idk if that's a solution tho.

 

[Krayte_XIII]

Ehh. As a PvE'er, all your doing is reducing my playtime... granted with school i needed to take a break, but if this change is implemented then I literally just wait till peace then join a group. Peace done, I log off. At least right now, i can go to ivory and grind there while war is goin on. All you do to players like me is make it so stoneflow castellum is the new grind spot during war. If people dont want to be pvped, they wont, so stop trying to force them to.

Edit: actually that takes away stoneflow to. So basically your saying "pvp if you want to level faster then a snail." No thanks. Organized group pvp could be fun, not gank fests while i solo. You also kill ivory entirely, cuz why go to ivory if its on the same rotation as redhand. Just my opinion, speaking for the pve community. Now, making the t7 permanenet pvp makes sense. Ivory to grind and level, redhand to gear up and give war increased drop rates, and t7 perma pvp with best gear so players contest nameds to get a shot at epic gear. That appeases the casuals and the hardcores. (And tbh, even the casuals that dont like pvp are gonna want that gear... they will run the risk and join the groups. I would)

 

[Dsawemd]

This server does not have enough PvE content, in terms of RPG, Mob Models, and Mob Mechanics, to survive on PvE. When that changes, we can allow people to level safely, because they won't be bored.

The goal of Herocraft is to "have fun", not "grind efficiently".

 

[Dsawemd]

Ehh. As a PvE'er, all [this change is] doing is reducing my playtime.... At least right now, i can go to ivory and grind there while war is goin on.

Can't agree more, I only go leveling during conflict because I hate it and want PVP.

The current system is already creating a lot of downtime for a lot of people, leading them away from the server.

The main time sink of Herocraft is grinding, and historically interaction revolving around grinding is what helped build a sense of community.

We have Creative, we will soon have Factions. There is no such thing as a PvEer or PvPer in Herocraft Survival. You can avoid PvP, and (once you're leveled) you can avoid PvE. But by allowing people to play exclusively in one or the other is bad for the survival server.

PvP prowess at higher levels should rely on PvE effort (leveling is required to get power).
PvE success at higher levels should rely on PvP ability (the most contested leveling/loot spots should actually be CONTESTED).

 

[Krayte_XIII]

The current system is already creating a lot of downtime for a lot of people, leading them away from the server.

The main time sink of Herocraft is grinding, and historically interaction revolving around grinding is what helped build a sense of community.

We have Creative, we will soon have Factions. There is no such thing as a PvEer or PvPer in Herocraft Survival. You can avoid PvP, and (once you're leveled) you can avoid PvE. But by allowing people to play exclusively in one or the other is bad for the survival server.

PvP prowess at higher levels should rely on PvE effort (leveling is required to get power).
PvE success at higher levels should rely on PvP ability (the most contested leveling/loot spots should actually be CONTESTED).

Mkay, first point: you're correct, its not pvers and pvpers... its soloers and gankers/pros. Individuals like me enjoy the herocraft mod as it was intended for: and thats an rpg mod. I prefer soloing, with the occasional group during peace. In the past, and why i quit in the first place, was due to an elite pvp group camping my deathchest and basically ruined all the work id put into the game. Then players like me quit, and those pvp'ers wonder why. Thus why i say its soloers and gankers. Taking away the majority of the dungeons and makin us go through that again is more likely to kill the casual populace. I can actually think of times where I've been kicked from groups and killed because someone wanted my soul shards and they were a town, which is why i only solo. And many people i my experience feel the same. If you take away those protections for casual soloers, they are likely going to quit again, because your just making fodder for the pvp players amd no one enjoys being fodder.

Second, yes, i can agree that the highest loot should be contested. Its the equivalent of a raid in WoW. The top tier dungeon should be pvp and people should fight over the drops, t7 is designed for the pros. Stoneflow castellum? Elven palace? Even ivory is only good for xp grinding. You have no reason to make those contested other then wanting to kill the people hiding there. If people dont want to be ganked and camped and lose their earnings, and you enact these changes, then they wont be able to earn anything, find the server pointless and move on. We should be helping the solo community since towns are dying, not killing it.

 

[Dsawemd]

You're SUPPOSED to have friends, and even some enemies. "Solo" play should be discouraged!

 

[Krayte_XIII]

You're SUPPOSED to have friends, and even some enemies. "Solo" play should be discouraged!

Tell that to the people with trust issues who constantly get screwed over in this "anything goes" hardcore mentality. Yesterday someone in chat was complaining how towns are dying, I think its due to war. Tell that to all the new players that don't have friends yet, get ganked and leave. Your mentality only works in keeping current players when our focus should be replenish the player base, and everyone for the first few weeks goes solo. If we want them to stay, shouldnt we encourage it? Tell that to folks like me who just enjoy a good rpg mod and enjoy soloing in my grind spots in elven palace and ivory while chilling in o chat. Thats most of the playerbase. Its just the pvp vets who shout and complain the most

 

[MunchlaxHero]

This whole thread disgusts me. Let me tell you a story about a young boy MunchlaxHero, in my first few weeks of joining Bastion, I was camped hard by PvPers, non stop, and lost on many occasions everything I owned. Around my 3rd week, I believe, I joined a town and got protection from the campers and it was great. In my 3rd town Rapture at the time, I found the joy of PvP with my good friend @Im_a_Pickle at the LO swamp, LO swamp was a hotspot for levelers, which attracted PvPers, mainly Umbra at the time, sure we got shit on the first several times, but learning from each mistake we eventually starting be able to kill them and we had the time of our life. I guess what I am trying to say is right now there is NO REASON TO EVER HAVE PVP and that is a problem, you can level all you want without worrying about PvP, you can hide in your town without worrying about PvP, you can hide in your 5k spawn plot without worrying about PvP. This makes everything a lot worse, now when you actually somehow find some PvP in a t6 dungeon and die you are so not use to it and cry about it and never go back. I see that having PvP every dungeon would cause PvPers to camp noobs, BUT all of you that say that are fucking idiots, for instance if I were to camp a noob when other PvPers are on they would come and try to kill me, I did that same thing the last 4 maps. People like PvP and there is always a justice system, how are you bitchy PvErs going to ever enjoy PvP when you never experience it? I was a PvEr at the start of Bastion and look at me now. This thread has my full support, it will help the community and teach others to group together and fight.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

I see no way you can disagree with this @Abyssal since you joined end of last map when there were PvE dungeons, you have never experienced Bastion or even Haven for that matter.
Also same thing with @J2BH if you have no experience with PvP as a whole map, no reason with voicing your opinion, since we all know you have only been here during the last 2 maps.
Wow everyone that disagreed with the OP are actually all newcomers and only have been here for the last 2 maps and have no experience in the joining a town for protection against PvP and leveling in swamps.

 

[LordZelkova]

I see no way you can disagree with this @Abyssal since you joined end of last map when there were PvE dungeons, you have never experienced Bastion or even Haven for that matter.

To each their own.

But I agree with the OP.

 

[J2BH]

This whole thread disgusts me. Let me tell you a story about a young boy MunchlaxHero, in my first few weeks of joining Bastion, I was camped hard by PvPers, non stop, and lost on many occasions everything I owned. Around my 3rd week, I believe, I joined a town and got protection from the campers and it was great. In my 3rd town Rapture at the time, I found the joy of PvP with my good friend @Im_a_Pickle at the LO swamp, LO swamp was a hotspot for levelers, which attracted PvPers, mainly Umbra at the time, sure we got shit on the first several times, but learning from each mistake we eventually starting be able to kill them and we had the time of our life. I guess what I am trying to say is right now there is NO REASON TO EVER HAVE PVP and that is a problem, you can level all you want without worrying about PvP, you can hide in your town without worrying about PvP, you can hide in your 5k spawn plot without worrying about PvP. This makes everything a lot worse, now when you actually somehow find some PvP in a t6 dungeon and die you are so not use to it and cry about it and never go back. I see that having PvP every dungeon would cause PvPers to camp noobs, BUT all of you that say that are fucking idiots, for instance if I were to camp a noob when other PvPers are on they would come and try to kill me, I did that same thing the last 4 maps. People like PvP and there is always a justice system, how are you bitchy PvErs going to ever enjoy PvP when you never experience it? I was a PvEr at the start of Bastion and look at me now. This thread has my full support, it will help the community and teach others to group together and fight.

I feel you on a lot of these things. But you definitely can't base what the current player experience should be on what your own was. There's a reason herocraft is changing constantly, and it isn't so players can play the way people used to back then. Pvp is great, it's exhilarating and I couldn't agree more when you said that players won't know the thrill of pvp if they never try it. However, that's the key thing. PVP. is fun. Yes. But! Think about the new player, scared as shit, open world, players all around are way more OP. It's less that they don't want to PVP, it's more that they don't want to lose their shit. We need better incentives to pvp, other than ways to lose everything a player has worked for in a heartbeat.
"Well I was camped so they should get camped too!" Is what I hear from all the players that like camping noobs and whatnot. If you got camped by someone, get stronger, and go kill the fuck out of that someone. Don't take your rage and past experience out on an innocent newbie, that's just video game level psychotic. Also remember, that you made it, nice. But not everyone is going to be like you, especially now. Most players don't have the drive and will to get stronger on hc anymore. They'll just quit as soon as they get camped. It's a sad but true story, and it's not anyone's fault. It's just how it is now.
Pvp is great. And players do want PVP, they do. But they Don't want to lose everything they've worked for. So when we say "Wow players these days are so pussy to pvp." It isn't quite true, they're pussy to lose all their hard earned stuff, that's all.

 

[Krayte_XIII]

If you guys seriously want pvp in these zones without pissing off newbs, then add level caps to the zones too. no lvl 60s in elven palace. Cap is 40 for its tier. 50 for ivory. 20 for necropolis etc. This way high level players can't camp low levels, in low levels can enjoy PvP in a balanced fashion against players of equal skill level. However if a low level wants to run the risk of playing in ivory for the faster grind they can. This prepares noobs for harder dungeons and has the conflict you guys want so much. That would be a good protection for solo players since low levels dont really gank, and if experienced players want in they can pay the 500 souls to play something new. And if your all lvl 60's, what are you doin in lowbie zones anyway? You shouldnt be there to begin with.