Dungeons are coming!

[Jasquan]

So will this be using mob spawners? If so you could probably use filters on mcedit to make spawners spawn mobs with armor/weapons.

The zombie w/ full diamond armor and enchanted diamond sword mob spawner. Let's do this. And disallow drops from them. I would die.

 

[Danda]

So will this be using mob spawners? If so you could probably use filters on mcedit to make spawners spawn mobs with armor/weapons.

1. We're not using mob spawners
2. No we couldn't because this would force us to shut down the server so the players can't modify the map while we're adding this.

 

[Eldrylars]

Hope this wouldn't be Pvp enabled..

The competition that dungeons can provide to the server as well as excitement of know that you have to be aware of more then mindless mobs will increase the over all hardcore experience and decrease the obvious apathy created by 100% safe places.

My proposal is to make several dungeons. Two large high output dungeons that would give better experience but would most likely be controlled by the larger guilds and thus huge PVP battlegrounds. Two medium dungeons that would be geared towards smaller groups and aimed at smaller cities or guilds and would also be PVP hotbeds. Finally add in several smaller dungeons that are geared for 1-4 players tops and would have smaller scale PVP and be decent for the 2 player groups.

 

[Danda]

The first dungeon, Catacombs will be split into multiple sections that will progressively get harder there will be pvp and non-PvP areas of it. For obvious reasons the PvP enabled sections will have larger mob spawns and greater rewards.

 

[Eldrylars]

The first dungeon, Catacombs will be split into multiple sections that will progressively get harder there will be pvp and non-PvP areas of it. For obvious reasons the PvP enabled sections will have larger mob spawns and greater rewards.

Sounds like trouble
Some problems that you most likely thought of but should keep in mind if not.

Kill stealing/kill griefing. Anyone with higher damage output of AOE can just grief players trying to fight in non pvp areas getting the kill shots in and blocking players from getting xp.
PVP Border hopping. Using the Non PvP areas to escape PvP.
AFK Macro. Most likely will not happen if the dungeons are well traveled but could be done rather easily if they are not policed.

If I think of anything else I will POST it just to make sure the problems have been thought of.

EDIT: Unless you would rather me bug, exploit or private convo post it.

 

[Falker57]

Sounds like trouble
Some problems that you most likely thought of but should keep in mind if not.

Kill stealing/kill griefing. Anyone with higher damage output of AOE can just grief players trying to fight in non pvp areas getting the kill shots in and blocking players from getting xp.
PVP Border hopping. Using the Non PvP areas to escape PvP.
AFK Macro. Most likely will not happen if the dungeons are well traveled but could be done rather easily if they are not policed.

If I think of anything else I will POST it just to make sure the problems have been thought of.

EDIT: Unless you would rather me bug, exploit or private convo post it.

Afk macroing for mobs is very difficult(i think...) especially with mobs on minecraft. Cannot be done with just macro mod especially with the plugin so a hack of some sort would be required which would be highly illegal and I doubt it would ever happen...

 

[Eldrylars]

Not difficult for coders. But as you said and I agree that it's unlikely, yet possible with static spawns.

A good coder could make a bot that could do anything they want
I once had an almost engaging conversation with a player coded bot for almost 20 minutes in a commercial mmo.

 

[awsumguy75321]

Afk macroing for mobs is very difficult(i think...) especially with mobs on minecraft. Cannot be done with just macro mod especially with the plugin so a hack of some sort would be required which would be highly illegal and I doubt it would ever happen...

Theoretically, it could be done. If you're, say, Warrior, you could duct tape down the keys you use for Bash and Strike, thus getting AFK kills when mobs are in front of you.

 

[Danda]

1. Kill stealing/kill griefing. Anyone with higher damage output of AOE can just grief players trying to fight in non pvp areas getting the kill shots in and blocking players from getting xp.
2. PVP Border hopping. Using the Non PvP areas to escape PvP.
3. AFK Macro. Most likely will not happen if the dungeons are well traveled but could be done rather easily if they are not policed.

1. That will always be a problem and there's not much we can do about it
2. Trailing Combat Tags? You're forgetting that if you get combat tagged by a player ability you can now be attacked in No-PvP while you are still tagged.
3. This won't be that easy to achieve but it's something we'll keep an eye out for.

 

[Eldrylars]

1. That will always be a problem and there's not much we can do about it
2. Trailing Combat Tags? You're forgetting that if you get combat tagged by a player ability you can now be attacked in No-PvP while you are still tagged.
3. This won't be that easy to achieve but it's something we'll keep an eye out for.

Good enough.
Although I am obviously strongly against safe zones I would rather dungeons with safe zones then no dungeons at all.
Still safe zones? You can level from 1-60 without ever worrying about PvP? No "on your toes" keep your eyes out for an enemy? *sigh*

On the first point though if you have no safe zones then the players will handle people trying to grief their mobs by killing each other . Player justice, player policing, player roleplay possibilities.

Just imagine if there were no safe zones all these "good" guilds and towns could actually try to hold a dungeon for new players and "good players," finally giving them the ability to roleplay "good guys." With the safe zones hat will be heavily limited. The new players will just level in the no PvP zones and thus don't need any "protection" in the first place but will have to deal with potentially constant griefing as "evil "players will just sit in the safe zone getting the last hit in just before they finish their mobs. You will need to make the entrance a safe zone or it will just be camped by a few aoe'ers and if you are making a safe-zone you will need to link it so people can safely run from the entrance into the safe zone or entrance campers will just sit there killing people.(considering this dungeon is portaled into and not just walked into.)

As much as I am against safe zones in the actual dungeon I am for a relatively close walk from the nearest graveyard and safe zones at the portal point and the entrance/exit point of the dungeon. I don't want people to port into the dungeon and then just die as that will detour most players from trying them out, but once they have walked into the dungeon it should be player controlled justice and safety, not game controlled. Hardcore Roleplay does not equal Hardcore PvP, yet where is the Roleplay that stay my have from killing some ass greifing people in the dungeon! The gods are so unjust!

Sorry for the wordwall. My excuse is caffeine and a long day at work.

Eldry

 

[UltimateOptics]

May i make a few design ideas for dungeons?
Danda Kainzo Angyles

 

[Falker57]

snip

meh the thing is a huge group of players would just hold the dungeon the whole time and it wouldn't be super fun. While another town could "Keep a dungeon open for new players" no one will ever do that unless those new players are their own. Some people like to play alone and while HC is a team game they shouldn't be super penalized for doing so. New players who just want to level would get discouraged and if there was constant pvp in there and while this is hardcore we dont want new people to have it way to rough. The idea of constant pvp inside of the dungeon sounds boring to me because just one group of players would hold the dungeon foreverrr.

 

[Danda]

Ulti we build them to the terrain usually.

 

[BeasttRecon]

Ulti we build them to the terrain usually.

If I could help build somehow I would

 

[Eldrylars]

snip.

Problem with what you are saying is.. If you are in the dungeon killing mobs with your townies and some new players or players from smaller towns/guilds are in the safe zone killing mobs can you honestly say that you or your townies will not go in there and screw with them over and over and over? Is that really any less discouraging?

Thats why I made an original post saying

• No safe zones - player policed
• 2-3 Large high output dungeons for large Kingdoms or towns.
• 2-3 Medium output dungeons designed for the towns that can't hold the large dungeons
• 4-8ish Small output dungeons that are designed for a couple people at a time that would not hold great rewards and would be less likely to get targeted by the larger groups.

That would give everyone a spot and although people will still raid the smaller dungeons the fact that they will get a ton less then if they go for a harder medium or large dungeon builds on the already great idea of risk/reward.

 

[Falker57]

Problem with what you are saying is.. If you are in the dungeon killing mobs with your townies and some new players or players from smaller towns/guilds are in the safe zone killing mobs can you honestly say that you or your townies will not go in there and screw with them over and over and over? Is that really any less discouraging?

Thats why I made an original post saying

• No safe zones - player policed
• 2-3 Large high output dungeons for large Kingdoms or towns.
• 2-3 Medium output dungeons designed for the towns that can't hold the large dungeons
• 4-8ish Small output dungeons that are designed for a couple people at a time that would not hold great rewards and would be less likely to get targeted by the larger groups.

That would give everyone a spot and although people will still raid the smaller dungeons the fact that they will get a ton less then if they go for a harder medium or large dungeon builds on the already great idea of risk/reward.

Actually.... I guess I agree with you...

 

[thomasyeung9999]

But I still think dungeons, at least half of them shouldn't even enable PvP. It is because New players will really want to lv up in dungeon more then wandering around. So if they get in a dungeon, killing mobs with loads of fun, then a high lv player at the back killed him with 3 shots. It will discourage those people who just wanna lv, and will lead to players hate the server and there will be lesser people to play on this server.

 

[Scycor]

The first dungeon, Catacombs will be split into multiple sections that will progressively get harder there will be pvp and non-PvP areas of it. For obvious reasons the PvP enabled sections will have larger mob spawns and greater rewards.

Will there be ways to get around the PvP areas? It would be a huge shame if you got to the first part and couldn't get anywhere because a group of people are camping in the PvP zones.

 

[Danda]

Will there be ways to get around the PvP areas? It would be a huge shame if you got to the first part and couldn't get anywhere because a group of people are camping in the PvP zones.

The first part is no PvP then it splits off into the two sections

 

[faredX]

The competition that dungeons can provide to the server as well as excitement of know that you have to be aware of more then mindless mobs will increase the over all hardcore experience and decrease the obvious apathy created by 100% safe places.

My proposal is to make several dungeons. Two large high output dungeons that would give better experience but would most likely be controlled by the larger guilds and thus huge PVP battlegrounds. Two medium dungeons that would be geared towards smaller groups and aimed at smaller cities or guilds and would also be PVP hotbeds. Finally add in several smaller dungeons that are geared for 1-4 players tops and would have smaller scale PVP and be decent for the 2 player groups.

Ah right pardon me, I had a different view on how the dungeons were going to be made.