Keache
Legacy Supporter 7
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- New Hampshire
I guess what comes around goes around?
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Suggestion Dread Knight Harmtouch Idea
- Thread starter HolyRane
- Start date
Kwong050
Holy Shit!
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2011
Keache
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2012
- Location
- New Hampshire
And no, your points are not very valid. Just about everyone in this thread who has much pvp experience against and as DK has been trying to explain to you why your points are invalid/biased/not very accurate; yet you continually ignore them and rate disagree on their posts. So yeah, don't be surpised when you are awarded with a facepalm or two.
Keache
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2012
- Location
- New Hampshire
Ninja'd
teddytazer
Soulsand
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
- Location
- Brampton, Ontario
For me harmtouch was just a bonus to be off cooldown. Its one of those skills that adds that reason to fear dreadknight. Does he have harmtouch ready or not, cant tell and u worry bout it. Its one of those moves that u dont need but its hella nice to have. Its the dreadknight's ace in the hole.
HolyRane
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2011
- Location
- In your mothers pants
IK, but samurai rapes DK if DK has no HT, therefore showing inbalence
teddytazer
Soulsand
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
- Location
- Brampton, Ontario
I do know samurai probably has more damage output then a dreadknight without harmtouch. they are supposed to.
GreekCrackShot
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
- Location
- New York
therefore you need to learn to utilize your other skills such as soulleech, curse, bash and strike. Don't only use decay disarm and harmtouch only.
There isn't an "Imbalance" Dreadknights are OP with it, and Normal without it. So it needs a nerf. But by nerfing it, we make the class underpowered, therefore other skills could use SMALL buffs.
Just because you can't beat one samurai doesn't mean they all can beat you without harmtouch.
Tbh if you fought me, I would've seen harmtouch pop up and popped in a HP Potion just to nullify your precious harmtouch.
There isn't an "Imbalance" Dreadknights are OP with it, and Normal without it. So it needs a nerf. But by nerfing it, we make the class underpowered, therefore other skills could use SMALL buffs.
Just because you can't beat one samurai doesn't mean they all can beat you without harmtouch.
Tbh if you fought me, I would've seen harmtouch pop up and popped in a HP Potion just to nullify your precious harmtouch.
HolyRane
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2011
- Location
- In your mothers pants
1v1 me then lol ill win
PernixPike
Legacy Supporter 4
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- Nov 4, 2011
- Location
- Roswell, Georgia
I see, DK (A tank) will finally be balanced when it can easily nuke every class in the game. Makes sense to me
c12095
Holy Shit!
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2011
Well i'm respecing for the tournament, so respec back to Samurai so we can try this out.
spartanman118
Legacy Supporter 3
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
So what you are saying is that DreadKnights really to heavily on harmtouch?
GreekCrackShot
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
- Location
- New York
Alright I'll take you up on that offer Rane. I just lost my 50 killstreak so I'll do some 1v1s for the kicks. With potions of course, because it's automatically a win for you without them.
c12095
Holy Shit!
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2011
Fuck potions, that's a weak way to win a fight.
Keache
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2012
- Location
- New Hampshire
They should be removed from herocraft outright, imho
Aetosion
Obsidian
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
Holy, exhaust Bladegrasp CD, drop a Curse, flurry and drop DoTs. Keep hitting. Other skills. You win.
Here's something from the balance forums that relates to DKs and Samurais. Thought of posting it based on a few comments near the end of page 4 of this thread.
Here's something from the balance forums that relates to DKs and Samurais. Thought of posting it based on a few comments near the end of page 4 of this thread.
Skill-Based and Rotation-Based PVP
and
Is the class, or the person OP?
Often, you'll see one person claiming a class is overpowered, and another person claiming the same class is underpowered. How can this be?
It's a simple explanation, really. There's two styles of class that one must take into account when balancing a class. Skill-Based and Rotation-Based PVP.
Skill-Based PVP involves a certain knack for combat, and is often more similar to Vanilla PVP, relying more on the handling of the class than the skills itself. A great example of this is Ranger. Ranger could arguably be called the most powerful class in Herocraft. Not many people see it this way, why is that? Playing a Ranger to its full potential means hitting nearly every shot one takes with a bow. If you can't shoot, you'll be a terrible Ranger. People that can aim very well, however, put into a Ranger class would get it nerfed for being "too powerful".
The other style of class is Rotation-Based PVP. The more skills heavy classes fall into this category, focusing more on a timing of skill usage and management of mana and stamina. A Wizard or Geomancer is a good example of this style. As a former Wizard, to PVP I would pick my target, and once I knew his or her class I would rotate some variant of Bolt->Megabolt->Root->Fireball->Replenish->Fireblast->Fireball->Blink->Consume->Bolt->Megabolt. The only skill that requires aim or any sort of refined technique is fireball, which is why I'd dub these classes as Rotation-Based. These are the classes that can classically be called OP, because they can dish out a large amount of damage (or some other unbalancing factor) without much focus on technique.
The problem encountered with balancing, is that oftentimes the difference between the two is not explicitly recognized. If the same player plays both a Rotation-Based and Skill-Based class, they may not understand the techniques required for the Skill-Based class, and they would resultantly be balanced incorrectly. One could see the Skill-Based classes as incredibly underpowered, but if someone who's good at the class plays it, it becomes one of the most powerful classes in the game.
Another thing that ends up happening, is that many of the more accomplished players will gravitate to a Skill-Based class. More often than not, the Skill-Based class may become regarded as "OP" because the person playing it understands the class. When someone else may play it, they may complain about the horrid weakness and lack of practical skills within the class. A good example is the Samurai class, which many Akahi/WP and TC members have been playing. The Samurai class itself is not inherently over nor underpowered. The skills and stats are both "mediocre", but the ability to excel with the class is notable. This is similar to Dragoon, the stats are blah, but the mobility and special combat techniques available makes it nearly impossible to defeat in the right hands.
We've got to remember when balancing, to recognize if a class is Rotation-Based or Skill-Based. If you go an test a Skill-Based class without proper knowledge nor finesse in playing it, one may regard it as underpowered and in need of a buff. In reality, it may be a very strong class. The people involved in the balancing just may not understand how to play it. The same goes for the other way around. The person playing a class may be extremely talented with it, so good that many ask for a nerf, when the class is conventionally not that good.
and
Is the class, or the person OP?
Often, you'll see one person claiming a class is overpowered, and another person claiming the same class is underpowered. How can this be?
It's a simple explanation, really. There's two styles of class that one must take into account when balancing a class. Skill-Based and Rotation-Based PVP.
Skill-Based PVP involves a certain knack for combat, and is often more similar to Vanilla PVP, relying more on the handling of the class than the skills itself. A great example of this is Ranger. Ranger could arguably be called the most powerful class in Herocraft. Not many people see it this way, why is that? Playing a Ranger to its full potential means hitting nearly every shot one takes with a bow. If you can't shoot, you'll be a terrible Ranger. People that can aim very well, however, put into a Ranger class would get it nerfed for being "too powerful".
The other style of class is Rotation-Based PVP. The more skills heavy classes fall into this category, focusing more on a timing of skill usage and management of mana and stamina. A Wizard or Geomancer is a good example of this style. As a former Wizard, to PVP I would pick my target, and once I knew his or her class I would rotate some variant of Bolt->Megabolt->Root->Fireball->Replenish->Fireblast->Fireball->Blink->Consume->Bolt->Megabolt. The only skill that requires aim or any sort of refined technique is fireball, which is why I'd dub these classes as Rotation-Based. These are the classes that can classically be called OP, because they can dish out a large amount of damage (or some other unbalancing factor) without much focus on technique.
The problem encountered with balancing, is that oftentimes the difference between the two is not explicitly recognized. If the same player plays both a Rotation-Based and Skill-Based class, they may not understand the techniques required for the Skill-Based class, and they would resultantly be balanced incorrectly. One could see the Skill-Based classes as incredibly underpowered, but if someone who's good at the class plays it, it becomes one of the most powerful classes in the game.
Another thing that ends up happening, is that many of the more accomplished players will gravitate to a Skill-Based class. More often than not, the Skill-Based class may become regarded as "OP" because the person playing it understands the class. When someone else may play it, they may complain about the horrid weakness and lack of practical skills within the class. A good example is the Samurai class, which many Akahi/WP and TC members have been playing. The Samurai class itself is not inherently over nor underpowered. The skills and stats are both "mediocre", but the ability to excel with the class is notable. This is similar to Dragoon, the stats are blah, but the mobility and special combat techniques available makes it nearly impossible to defeat in the right hands.
We've got to remember when balancing, to recognize if a class is Rotation-Based or Skill-Based. If you go an test a Skill-Based class without proper knowledge nor finesse in playing it, one may regard it as underpowered and in need of a buff. In reality, it may be a very strong class. The people involved in the balancing just may not understand how to play it. The same goes for the other way around. The person playing a class may be extremely talented with it, so good that many ask for a nerf, when the class is conventionally not that good.
HolyRane
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2011
- Location
- In your mothers pants
spartanman118
Legacy Supporter 3
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
I will hopefully be re-specing DreadKnight soon
teddytazer
Soulsand
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
- Location
- Brampton, Ontario
Actually was on test server. working the dk there. I noticed warrior's iron sword does as much as dk's diamond axe....
And Keache, I dont think Potions should be removed cause u could say the same thing bout Fire swords/bows the rich and old players have access to use.
And Keache, I dont think Potions should be removed cause u could say the same thing bout Fire swords/bows the rich and old players have access to use.
S
ShizzDawgg
So? I'm a bard and I lose to samurai and dk. Every class has a weakness, get over it.