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Suggestion Dread Knight Harmtouch Idea

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Location
Temple of Melonmancy
Maybe a slight nerf to armor so they can still have the damage a Dreadknight needs to be different than a paladin.


I am not sure if either paladin or DK should be as tanky as they are now. It a whole different ballgame when it comes to them and their absurd HP+armor perms. But if we just nerf DK's tankiness we could probably leave paladin as it is.
 

Keache

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Location
New Hampshire
That would make paladin the only tank; and I'm pretty sure Dreadknights purpose was to be the more offense oriented paladin. But the problem here is that they made it TOO potent in offense. It should either have less armor or less damage. Make your pick.
 

Keache

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Location
New Hampshire
Sorry, didn't mean it to sound like that. I'm not commanding anyone to do anything, just offering my two cents.
 

Keache

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Location
New Hampshire
Lol I'm pretty sure Holyrane has disagreed with just about all of my posts on this thread by now. I must be doing something right!
 

Dielan9999

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Location
Temple of Melonmancy
Sorry, didn't mean it to sound like that. I'm not commanding anyone to do anything, just offering my two cents.

Its ok, just remember that there are alot of things to consider. In the end we have to make suggestions that fit more towards Kainzo's ideas and design of what a class should be. However we do read this suggestion forum to help us get there.
 

Aetosion

Obsidian
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
I'm looking at Kainzo's outline for intended class roles from the Balance forum. It is intended to primarily be a tank, and to have twice the damage output as a Paladin, and half the damage output of a Samurai. Harmtouch/Empathy + other damage means it does more damage than a Samurai. It already has the second best armour in the game, I just think it should have some additional anti-support capabilities, or some DoT damage like Necromancers.


DK seriously isn't OP. You all are just being close minded to the matter.
Or perhaps you are?​



I think DK has diverged from its intended path.
 
S

ShizzDawgg

I would like you all to try DK and see how bad they are in 1v1's w/o harmtouch.
As long as the other class isn't a DK that uses harmtouch, or a samurai, you should be able to win if you don't play stupid.
 
S

ShizzDawgg

Also, for everybody that doesn't know, c12095 pushed kainzo to remove harmtouch whilst he was still a dreadknight. Kainzo refuses to remove it because it makes the class "unique".
 

c12095

Holy Shit!
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Going to copy and paste this from my original post for Dreadknight suggestions. The math has changed some, but not anything really game changing.
Ok well lets start off with how DreadKnights are currently looking.
Bash - 10 physical damage and interrupts spells being cast
Disarm - Disarm target for 3 seconds
HarmTouch - 35 dark damage Cost 10 HP 0 Mana 15 minute CD
BecomeDeath - 120 seconds of underwater breathing
ManaFreeze - Prevents your target from regenerating mana for 15 seconds.
Curse - 50% chance for the target to miss attacks
Decay - 21 damage over 21 seconds Cost 25 Mana 10 second CD
SoulLeech - Drain 13 health over 10 seconds, restores 10 of your own health Cost 15 Mana 12 second CD
Empathy - Deals damage equal to 100% of your missing health and slows for 3 seconds, cap of 25 Cost 35 Mana 20 second CD
Any spell with Orange text at the end, sadly is all a Dreadknight has to run to be effective in killing any opponent. Any spell not given Orange text is something that is either for Utility, like BecomeDeath, or pointless, like ManaFreeze. While i'm on the subject of ManaFreeze, with the increased mana pools of casters, this spell has now become pointless because by the time either the DreadKnight or the caster die, their not out of mana, this is mainly due to burst damage from both sides and replenish (Not saying replenish is bad). How I see Dreadknights, are a class that are less Tanky than a Paladin, which right now they are, and a class that has more damage than a Paladin, which they have far too much more damage. If it were down to a 1v1 fight, Dreadknight vs any class, the Dreadknight would almost always win if they have their HarmTouch avaliable, this is where the majority of bitching complaints from the community are coming from. I personally hate the whole idea of Harmtouch anymore, its far too powerful and it really does almost put us in an unstoppable state when it comes to any 1v1. I frown upon using Harmtouch in any fair 1v1 fight for this reason, its just too strong. Heres an example of how most Dreadknight fights go, which the addition of harmtouch.
Decay - 21 damage 21 seconds. The Dreadknight is down 25 mana, 75/100
SoulLeech - 13 damage over 10 seconds. The Dreadknight is down 15 mana, around 65/100.
^^ Easily spammed until the target is tagged with it, even when being silences/interrupted.
Auto attack of 6 damage each
Bash - 10 damage/Disarm - 3 second disarm
Auto attack of 6 damage each
Auto attack of 6 damage each
Auto attack of 6 damage each
Bash - 10 damage/Disarm - 3 second disarm
Auto attack of 6 damage each
Now at this point, the fight is most likely lasted around 20-25 seconds, so lets do some math :eek:
For the sake of ease, lets say this has went 25 seconds long. So we have a Decay, which has taken a toll of 21 damage from the target. Next up we have SoulLeech, which has also taken 13 health from the target, and returned 10 to you. So that alone is 34 fire and forget damage. Now I think its far to say the average health is somewhere from 90-100 on most players. So lets go with 100 for again the sake of ease. That is 34 health from their 100 hp leaving them with 66 health, just from two dots. Now we get to add in the Auto Attacks, which in all honestly you only NEED to do about 4 auto attacks at most. So 4 auto attacks at 6 damage each comes to 24 damage, so that leaves the target with 42 health. Rotate a bash in there for 10 damage and it comes to 32 health. Now at this point, they are within one hit kill range of Harmtouch... But of course we also have to add in the other persons damage inflicted on the Dreadknight. All I typed out above will honestly take a total of 10 seconds of work on the Dreadknights part, the rest is done by the dots. Now of course the Dreadknight is taking damage, which works so much more to his/her advantage than the person inflicting the damage. Empathy, with a cap of 25 damage, and dealing 100% of your missing health is usually used as a finished/slow to prevent running. So back to the fight, the Dreadknight at the point of 25 seconds is most likely around half HP, if the opposition isn't the average idiot pvper. So we have a burst 25 damage coming in along with the 3 second slow onto the target. How this is normaly used by Dreadknights that know their rotation is once they hit half HP they know their dots have taken their toll on the player so all they need to do is pop a Harmtouch for 35 damage and immedietly after a 25 damage Empathy for a total of 60 damage in a matter of seconds. So go back to where I said the dots ended their damage and the auto attacks have hit. That leaves the person with around 32-42 health, without Bash. Thats an overkill of around 18-28 damage, both of which are instant cast spells.
Now what can be done about this? Well we have a few options that won't destroy the Dreadknight class, while still keeping it balanced.
Decay - Lower its damage to around 10-15 with a 15 respective 10-15 second CD
SoulLeech - Make this a drawn out Dot, currently it does 13 damage over 10 seconds. Make it somewhere around 13-15 damage over 20 seconds. When I hear Leech I expect something that takes it time to kill you. Doing this will also delay the health gain to the Dreadknight, which is always a lifesaver.
Harmtouch - Honestly I would love to see this spell scrapped, its far to overpowered with no realy equal among the Warrior classes. If anything I would say nerf it to around 10 damage with a 2-5 min CD.
Empathy - Love the cap of 25 damage, its much better than before, the Slow gives it utility also, big plus. I would say leave it as is, not really a huge factor without the other spells weighing in.
Auto Attacks - I would say lower their damage to 5, 6 seems to be too much for their tankiness.
 

teddytazer

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Brampton, Ontario
I think if u reduced the total Hp and increased the damage of Axe this would help balance. still would be tanky just not so large of a buffer to break down.
 

c12095

Holy Shit!
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
I think if u reduced the total Hp and increased the damage of Axe this would help balance. still would be tanky just not so large of a buffer to break down.

Axe damage was nerfed to 5, however I didn't see it posted on the patch threads.
 

teddytazer

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Brampton, Ontario
Axe damage was nerfed to 5, however I didn't see it posted on the patch threads.

nerfing axe damage doesnt really help but hinders dreadknights below lvl 40. now give them maybe total hp of 100-115. that decreases the damage they can take. meaning you have to use a lil more skill (they are knights after all) to survive. My point is Axe is the weapon of choice and it should do decent damage. Harmtouch is great in 1v1's but in does anyone really attack a dreadknight alone?
 

teddytazer

Soulsand
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Brampton, Ontario
yeah and when they attack when your alone.. usually that person runs. I remember this one dude ended running and jumping into a group of creepers rather then die under my axe.
 
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