Suggestion Dragoon seems too useful

[Isaaclite]

I've never played dragoon so I wouldn't really know, but here's my thoughts:
1) You can't run from a dragoon (jump, superjump, spear)
2) You can't hunt down a running dragoon (jump, superjump, tremor)
3) If you're raiding a town by yourself, you're most likely a dragoon
4) Good damage, tanky class
5) Tumble completely counters classes like disciple
6) Good in team pvp and 1v1, both in arenas and col duels and real world combat
7) Warriors generally lose to casters, but dragoon is very mobile; it can catch casters with spear, jump/superjump in front of them, impale to slow them down, and has lunarlance to drain mana.
8) Very convenient class

If I am correct, that dragoon is too good, I suggest keeping the mobility, but lowering some skill damage/effects.
If I am wrong, I guess I'm just missing out on something.
Any thoughts?

 

[JacobBurkey]

I agree with him ;c

 

[Delfofthebla]

Already aware of the issue, but I do not think Kainzo is wishing to push any more patches before Attributes hits. All I can say is it'll happen eventually, but probably not until attributes.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I think the server agrees with everything you've said. The only counter-argument I've ever heard came from a straight up idiot who said "Dragoon is balanced because they require a lot of diamonds to do well, whether its armour or stamina potions."

Dragoons are dangerous and overpowered without these things, but they're damn well nearly unbeatable when they have these things.

Dragoon is a troll class, through and through. The amount of times I've seen a Dragoon get absolutely shit on in a group fight, only to Jump jump jump away from harm's way is laughable.

I've beaten on an AKF Dragoon once, had him nearly dead until he came back to his computer to jump 3 times, eat a diamond, then jump some more. I fucking wish I was making that up.

If they did half of the damage they currently do then "MAYBE" they'd be semi balanced. They'd have extremely good mobility, and defense... Fine. Yet the fact remains they do a whopping 78 damage with their diamond shovel, and 89 with a gold one.

If there was ever an example needed to show how to improperly balance a class, Dragoon would pass with flying colours. To give it a 5 star rating in damage, armour, and mobility itself shows how imbalanced it really is. You can be an unskilled player and still do very well as a Dragoon, because you simply will not die.

Over and out. Fuck you Dragoon.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Already aware of the issue, but I do not think Kainzo is wishing to push any more patches before Attributes hits. All I can say is it'll happen eventually, but probably not until attributes.

Here he comes to save the day.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Here's the funny bit. With the attributes coming in we can pretty much change the roles of our characters to our liking. Right now, a wizard does a lot of damage with pretty high mobility. They lack HP and armour though. If you've been a wizard since the start of the map and fancy being a wizard still with a bit of a change, you can do that. Maybe make your wizard's HP pool higher, and have it wear chain mail instead of leather. What's it going to have to sacrifice to get that though? Likely a bit of damage output and blink's range won't be so high.

If a Dragoon looks at his current state in game, what could he possibly wish for? Better armour? He's in the top 3.
Higher HP? He's in the top 3.
Better weapon damage? He's in the top 3.
Better mobility? He's the best, by far.
Quicker stamina regen? Maybe, but if a Dragoon is ever low on stamina he consumes a diamond on a 30 second cooldown. Lets be honest too, stamina regens from 0 to 20 fairly quickly, so this concern is mostly moot.

The fact remains, if everything stays as it is, what could a Dragoon possibly wish for when attributes get added? They do EVERYTHING very well. There's nothing more to give a Dragoon except for an ability to heal himself, but that is skill based and not attribute based.

Broken class is broken. You're in denial if you think any differently.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Here's the funny bit. With the attributes coming in we can pretty much change the roles of our characters to our liking. Right now, a wizard does a lot of damage with pretty high mobility. They lack HP and armour though. If you've been a wizard since the start of the map and fancy being a wizard still with a bit of a change, you can do that. Maybe make your wizard's HP pool higher, and have it wear chain mail instead of leather. What's it going to have to sacrifice to get that though? Likely a bit of damage output and blink's range won't be so high.

If a Dragoon looks at his current state in game, what could he possibly wish for? Better armour? He's in the top 3.
Higher HP? He's in the top 3.
Better weapon damage? He's in the top 3.
Better mobility? He's the best, by far.
Quicker stamina regen? Maybe, but if a Dragoon is ever low on stamina he consumes a diamond on a 30 second cooldown. Lets be honest too, stamina regens from 0 to 20 fairly quickly, so this concern is mostly moot.

The fact remains, if everything stays as it is, what could a Dragoon possibly wish for when attributes get added? They do EVERYTHING very well. There's nothing more to give a Dragoon except for an ability to heal himself, but that is skill based and not attribute based.

Broken class is broken. You're in denial if you think any differently.

Pretty accurate assessment. You will basically be able to gauge which classes were "too strong" before attributes by viewing how many "new options" are available with attributes.

All warriors have the issue of dealing too much damage, and being too tanky. With attributes, it will be impossible to reach that stage. You cannot be everything at once. A dragoon for instance, will have shit mobility without proper agility levels, shit armor/hp without proper Constitution/Endurance levels, and shit damage without high strength levels. The problem is, you just don't have that many points to spend. The dragoon will still be able to deal damage, have high mobility, wear high armor, and have high hp, but he won't be able to do it all at the same time. It just won't be physically possible.

That's the idea anyways...

 

[Kainzo]

I'm really wanting to remove the effectiveness / usability of Tumble. Not until Attributes.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I'm really wanting to remove the effectiveness / usability of Tumble. Not until Attributes.

I really like the idea of Agility making your Tumble more effective... Want to be able to fall 12 blocks without getting hurt? Better put points into Agility.

Also, please, oh please oh please oh please disable Prot and Feather Falling enchants. Thank you.

 

[werwew19]

I really like the idea of Agility making your Tumble more effective... Want to be able to fall 12 blocks without getting hurt? Better put points into Agility.

Also, please, oh please oh please oh please disable Prot and Feather Falling enchants. Thank you.

What this man said should be done

 

[TheBrute2001]

I'm really wanting to remove the effectiveness / usability of Tumble. Not until Attributes.

Dragoons should normally be able to tumble out of damage, they are a mobility class. If you make tumble a out of combat skill disciples could once again hurt goons. They would also take damage when jumping out of combat so that could help aid in ending the unstoppable goon retreat we know and love.

 

[liamnut]

There is the issue of jump never working due to nocheat and lag

 

[TimForReal]

There is the issue of jump never working due to nocheat and lag

Jump has more or less been fixed, the nocheat rubberband doesn't happen often.. if any. I'm not seeing it at all.

Have diminishing returns ever been thought of? In this case, how about the repeated use of jump in a certain time frame (or in combat) requires more stamina to be used.

 

[mikehk]

Eh, maybe attributes will fix it... I personally think that right now they just need an armor nerf. Cause I mean really... How daheel does someone in heavy armor manage to jump 30 feet+ in the air in armor that weighs so much.

 

[joshtsai]

Eh, maybe attributes will fix it... I personally think that right now they just need an armor nerf. Cause I mean really... How daheel does someone in heavy armor manage to jump 30 feet+ in the air in armor that weighs so much.

With that logic no one should use gold armor.

 

[mikehk]

With that logic no one should use gold armor.

there is no more "touché" button anymore so I'll say it.
touché

 

[liamnut]

Jump has more or less been fixed, the nocheat rubberband doesn't happen often.. if any. I'm not seeing it at all.

Have diminishing returns ever been thought of? In this case, how about the repeated use of jump in a certain time frame (or in combat) requires more stamina to be used.

Well most dragoon skills use stamina, making jump cost more would result in the loss of mobility and the loss of most skills leading to a rubbish class. I think other classes are much more unbalanced than dragoon, like paladin and they should be getting attention first.